Allen's Playoff Stats vs Burrow & Jackson Combined - Not "Inflated..."

[Alphadawg7]

38 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I count 4

 

Its actually 6 (see more below).

 

38 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

Just did and it's not even close to accurate

 

Ok, I found the discrepancy.  The original post I got the stats from the author used Statmuse for their source of the data and the post is both wrong and correct at the same time.  

 

The original poster said "0 Touchdowns", and if you go to www.statmuse.com and type in "How many times did Josh Allen score 0 touchdowns" and "How many times did Lamar Jackson score 0 touchdowns" the answer Statmuse gives you is 14 for Allen, and 23 for Lamar and lists the dates and games with the majority occurring in his first 2 seasons.  So the original poster correctly reported the findings that were given...just turns out the AI is making a mistake.

 

For as good as Statmuse is, there is actually a mistake being made here by the AI.  Even though it says "touchdowns" which should be all touchdowns by default given there was no specification for either "rushing" or "passing" in the prompt.  Statmuse however is still only searching specifically for passing TD's, probably because its falsely identifying QB's only having passing touchdowns without a more specific prompt.  If you type in the same prompt with "total touchdowns" instead, it shows Allen as having 6 games with 0 touchdowns.  

 

So the original poster of those stats did correctly report the AI findings, but the AI is flawed and associating what should be the broad term of "touchdowns" to be all TD's with only the ones most closely tied to that positions primary category, in this case, throwing the ball. 

 

Allen does have 14 games with no "passing" TD's, but in 8 of them he did score at least 1 rushing TD and has 6 total games where he scored 0 TD's.  

 

I will go back and make the adjustment to specify passing TD's now that we know where the discrepancy is.  

Edited July 12 by Alphadawg7

[MRW]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Its actually 6 (see more below).

 

 

And of those 6, 1 is a season finale where he played one or two series, and another is the first game of his rookie season when Peterman crapped the bed against Baltimore and Allen came in at halftime.

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Its actually 6 (see more below).

 

 

Ok, I found the discrepancy.  The original post I got the stats from the author used Statmuse for their source of the data and the post is both wrong and correct at the same time.  

 

The original poster said "0 Touchdowns", and if you go to www.statmuse.com and type in "How many times did Josh Allen score 0 touchdowns" and "How many times did Lamar Jackson score 0 touchdowns" the answer Statmuse gives you is 14 for Allen, and 23 for Lamar and lists the dates and games with the majority occurring in his first 2 seasons.  So the original poster correctly reported the findings that were given...just turns out the AI is making a mistake.

 

For as good as Statmuse is, there is actually a mistake being made here by the AI.  Even though it says "touchdowns" which should be all touchdowns by default given there was no specification for either "rushing" or "passing" in the prompt.  Statmuse however is still only searching specifically for passing TD's, probably because its falsely identifying QB's only having passing touchdowns without a more specific prompt.  If you type in the same prompt with "total touchdowns" instead, it shows Allen as having 6 games with 0 touchdowns.  

 

So the original poster of those stats did correctly report the AI findings, but the AI is flawed and associating what should be the broad term of "touchdowns" to be all TD's with only the ones most closely tied to that positions primary category, in this case, throwing the ball. 

 

Allen does have 14 games with no "passing" TD's, but in 8 of them he did score at least 1 rushing TD and has 6 total games where he scored 0 TD's.  

 

I will go back and make the adjustment to specify passing TD's now that we know where the discrepancy is.  

its 4 games unless you want to count a week 17 game where he got pulled after 5 passes

 

9/30/2018 Packers

10/14/2018 Texams

10/25/2020 Jets

11/07/2021 Jags

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

its 4 games unless you want to count a week 17 game where he got pulled after 5 passes

 

9/30/2018 Packers

10/14/2018 Texams

10/25/2020 Jets

11/07/2021 Jags

 

It's 6 games.  That is the correct answer according the NFL statistics of games he played in and scored 0 total touchdowns.  If you got this question in a sports trivia game, the answer would be 6.  I checked and verified it.  You can "excuse" what ever games you want, I am only telling you what the correct factual answer is and nothing more.

 

And yes, one of those games was the final game of the season where he barely played and the other was his first game as a rookie where he came in at halftime. 

 

And for the record, its 14 games with 0 total TD's for Lamar (before "excusing" any games).

Edited July 12 by Alphadawg7

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

It's 6 games.  That is the correct answer according the NFL statistics of games he played in and scored 0 total touchdowns.  If you got this question in a sports trivia game, the answer would be 6.  I checked and verified it.  You can "excuse" what ever games you want, I am only telling you what the correct factual answer is.  

 

And yes, one of those games was the final game of the season and the other was his first game as a rookie where he came in at halftime.  

🤦‍♂️you started by saying it was 14 lol

 

the correct answer is 'thank you for helping me not spread disinformation'

[Alphadawg7]

16 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

🤦‍♂️you started by saying it was 14 lol

 

Wrong, I did not say any such thing..  I started saying "Someone posted these stats"...I am not the source nor did I claim to be.  And the answer isn't technically wrong, it was just an incomplete description to specify passing touchdowns which is a flaw in the AI, not the original author.  

 

16 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

the correct answer is 'thank you for helping me not spread disinformation'

 

Actually the only person who wrote a wrong answer was you, with 4 as the actual answer is 6 according to NFL official statistics.  14 was technically correct above, just Statmuse lacked the context of labeling it "passing" touchdowns.  

 

Edited July 12 by Alphadawg7

[BADOLBILZ]

18 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Wrong, I did not say any such thing..  I started saying "Someone posted these stats"...I am not the source nor did I claim to be.  And the answer isn't technically wrong, it was just an incomplete description to specify passing touchdowns which is a flaw in the AI, not the original author.  

 

 

Actually the only person who wrote a wrong answer was you, with 4 as the actual answer is 6 according to NFL official statistics.  14 was technically correct above, just Statmuse lacked the context of labeling it "passing" touchdowns.  

 

 

 

Again.

 

You simply gotta' know a stat like that is wrong if you follow the NFL.

 

Let alone if you are a fan of the team and the player.

 

Just too obvious. 

 

  

[Alphadawg7]

37 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Again.

 

You simply gotta' know a stat like that is wrong if you follow the NFL.

 

Let alone if you are a fan of the team and the player.

 

Just too obvious. 

 

  

It wasn’t wrong.  Read the follow along.  It was accurate, just Statmuse didn’t specify it filtered for passing touchdowns.  And we were not a scoring powerhouse his first 2 seasons, so it wasn’t a crazy stat and the actual stat was only 8 games different.  So really not that obvious for a 6 year career where the first 2 he was learning on the job with bad rosters.  
 

The amount of energy some of you are putting into an oversight by the AI on a website on such a trivial stat is bizarre.  

[FireChans]

@Alphadawg7 is one of the best posters at blaming everything else under the sun for being wrong. 
 

“I wasn’t wrong, I read wrong info”

 

“I wasn’t wrong, I quickly Googled that and posted it without checking”

 

”the website’s AI was wrong, not me.”

 

the man is ELITE. Be thankful you get to witness this run @BADOLBILZ

Edited July 13 by FireChans

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

@Alphadawg7 is one of the best posters at blaming everything else under the sun for being wrong. 
 

“I wasn’t wrong, I read wrong info”

 

“I wasn’t wrong, I quickly Googled that and posted it without checking”

 

”the website’s AI was wrong, not me.”

 

the man is ELITE. Be thankful you get to witness this run @BADOLBILZ

LMAO, I don’t know what is dumber…this post or the fact you can’t tell the difference of admitting an oversight and citing why, versus denying a mistake.  But given it’s you, no surprise you can’t decipher between the two 🤣  

 

Even funnier is how that is coming from you in the first place with your track record and then tagging Badol who comically believes he’s infallible is the icing on the cake lmao.

 

I do love how I live rent free in your head though as usual 😘

Edited July 13 by Alphadawg7

[Rampant Buffalo]

Enough. Life is short. This thread is supposed to be about comparing Allen's playoff performance to that of other QBs. It's not supposed to be a pointless, endless argument about a factual claim Alphadawg cited from an article he'd encountered. I mean, it's good you guys drilled down, to determine exactly what that statement meant. That part at least was a contribution. Beyond that, the debate surrounding this has no value. Regardless of who does or doesn't get assigned blame here, it's not going to change my view of any of the participants. So can we please stop wasting time and get back to discussing the subject of this thread?

[ganesh]

20 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

Enough. Life is short. This thread is supposed to be about comparing Allen's playoff performance to that of other QBs. It's not supposed to be a pointless, endless argument about a factual claim Alphadawg cited from an article he'd encountered. I mean, it's good you guys drilled down, to determine exactly what that statement meant. That part at least was a contribution. Beyond that, the debate surrounding this has no value. Regardless of who does or doesn't get assigned blame here, it's not going to change my view of any of the participants. So can we please stop wasting time and get back to discussing the subject of this thread?

agreed we need Bills discussion.  Go Bills !

[Ayjent]

ESPN did the QB rankings based in part on NFL exec input and Josh Allen was No. 3 behind Burrow.  I just think to myself where do I apply to be an NFL exec bc it doesn’t take a ton of intelligence to know that Josh Allen is a better player.  Burrow is really good, but he isn’t as durable or electric, or even as talented.  He can be deadly accurate but he can also prone to getting sacked a ton and flustered by good DLs.  I’m sorry, but I feel like Josh’s value is based on his team’s performance that has not been due to his effort outside of Bengals game.  I get the turnover complaint, but that isn’t an issue when the stakes are highest. He doesn’t crap in his hat in the big moments. The defensive coaching has been plain and simple bad in most playoff losses and mediocre at best in wins.  If you want an outlier to take out the Pats game is a good one…for the Defense. 

[BananaB]

13 hours ago, Ayjent said:

ESPN did the QB rankings based in part on NFL exec input and Josh Allen was No. 3 behind Burrow.  I just think to myself where do I apply to be an NFL exec bc it doesn’t take a ton of intelligence to know that Josh Allen is a better player.  Burrow is really good, but he isn’t as durable or electric, or even as talented.  He can be deadly accurate but he can also prone to getting sacked a ton and flustered by good DLs.  I’m sorry, but I feel like Josh’s value is based on his team’s performance that has not been due to his effort outside of Bengals game.  I get the turnover complaint, but that isn’t an issue when the stakes are highest. He doesn’t crap in his hat in the big moments. The defensive coaching has been plain and simple bad in most playoff losses and mediocre at best in wins.  If you want an outlier to take out the Pats game is a good one…for the Defense. 

Burrow is overrated. Dude got to the Super Bowl because of the defense. And that’s all he’s got on Allen is that one appearance.

Edited July 16 by BananaB

[Rampant Buffalo]

13 hours ago, Ayjent said:

ESPN did the QB rankings based in part on NFL exec input and Josh Allen was No. 3 behind Burrow.  I just think to myself where do I apply to be an NFL exec bc it doesn’t take a ton of intelligence to know that Josh Allen is a better player.  Burrow is really good, but he isn’t as durable or electric, or even as talented.  He can be deadly accurate but he can also prone to getting sacked a ton and flustered by good DLs.  I’m sorry, but I feel like Josh’s value is based on his team’s performance that has not been due to his effort outside of Bengals game.  I get the turnover complaint, but that isn’t an issue when the stakes are highest. He doesn’t crap in his hat in the big moments. The defensive coaching has been plain and simple bad in most playoff losses and mediocre at best in wins.  If you want an outlier to take out the Pats game is a good one…for the Defense. 

 

If I was the GM of an expansion team, I'd choose a rookie Allen over a rookie version of any other QB in the league. That specifically includes Pat Mahomes.

 

That said, I view Burrow as a top 5 QB. One of the things he does well is to take what the defense gives him. Accurate throws, high percentage passes. Move the chains. Keep the drive alive. Whereas, one of Allen's weaknesses is that if it's 3rd and 8, and if he's got a guy wide open 9 yards down the field, there's a chance he'll throw it to the guy who's double covered, 40 yards down the field. In watching Kurt Warner's analysis of Allen, there were a number of times Warner mentioned that Allen should have taken the easier, open throw underneath.

 

Let's say Allen were to call me up and were to ask, "What's the one thing I can do, to take my game to the next level?" I'd respond with, "How do you even know who I am?" But then to answer his question, I'd tell him to get coaching from Kurt Warner. "You need that coaching like a thirsty plant needs water."

 

But even as he is, I still think Allen is better than Burrow. If the Bills and Bengals swapped QBs, the Bills would be worse off, and would win fewer games with Burrow than they would have with Allen.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 7/16/2024 at 5:42 AM, Ayjent said:

ESPN did the QB rankings based in part on NFL exec input and Josh Allen was No. 3 behind Burrow.  I just think to myself where do I apply to be an NFL exec bc it doesn’t take a ton of intelligence to know that Josh Allen is a better player.  Burrow is really good, but he isn’t as durable or electric, or even as talented.  He can be deadly accurate but he can also prone to getting sacked a ton and flustered by good DLs.  I’m sorry, but I feel like Josh’s value is based on his team’s performance that has not been due to his effort outside of Bengals game.  I get the turnover complaint, but that isn’t an issue when the stakes are highest. He doesn’t crap in his hat in the big moments. The defensive coaching has been plain and simple bad in most playoff losses and mediocre at best in wins.  If you want an outlier to take out the Pats game is a good one…for the Defense. 

It’s pretty much splitting hairs when you get to the top 3 or so qbs.  Its real difficult to normalize for the talent these guys are surrounded by to really rank one as significantly better than the other 

 

If you swapped defenses in that last bills/chiefs playoff game I think the bills run away with it as one example then there’s a pretty big shift in the mahomes vs Allen debate even though the big discrepancy in that game was on the defensive side.  Way too much stock is put into a football game being qb vs qb 

Edited July 17 by Generic_Bills_Fan