SI Underrated player: Khalil Shakir, wide receiver

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

Bado, never has anything good to say about the team or 98% of the players, frankly I find him to be humorous, in which you know he will disagree with any positives posted about the team or most players, it’s like clockwork so to speak, lol, 

 

Totally agree.

[Alphadawg7]

46 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

To the contrary,  the truth is that Shakir was sold as potentially the steal of the entire draft.

 

So let's not hyperbolize about the general opinions of him.

 

I didn't see anyone going bonkers at his projection as a productive slot receiver who might put up 611 yards in his second season.  

 

But Kupp?   He was coming off an NFL record 1947 yard receiving total so it's PROBABLY important to keep in context the point in time if people disagreed.

 

If people were comparing Keon Coleman to Calvin Johnson would a 611 yard season in his second year prove those comps correct?

 

I think not.

   

The big point of contention from the start was how Shakir would do as a boundary WR because of his extremely short arms.

 

A lot more people on here were trying to compare him to Stefon Diggs than Cooper Kupp.

 

We still don't know how he will do on the boundary but there isn't much precedent to indicate he will succeed out there.

 

Come on dude...no one said he "WAS KUPP", it is a reference to his STYLE of play.  It always cracks me up when someone talks about a players "STYLE" of play and people incorrectly translate that to mean you just called them the exact same player and expect the same results.  Literally nobody said he was the next Kupp.  

[BADOLBILZ]

42 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Come on dude...no one said he "WAS KUPP", it is a reference to his STYLE of play.  It always cracks me up when someone talks about a players "STYLE" of play and people incorrectly translate that to mean you just called them the exact same player and expect the same results.  Literally nobody said he was the next Kupp.  

 

Here is your quote:

 

"I remember when people completely went bonkers and kept slamming Shakir when I made similar Kupp comparisons when he was a rookie, and again last year, which is not really a surprise since Shakir has since come out and literally stated he studies Kupp and tries to pattern some of his game off his."

 

Hey, it's your story, bro.

 

You said you made Kupp comparisons.    If people laughed at them maybe you should have clarified that you didn't mean the all-time receiving yardage record kinda' version of Kupp who gains 1947 yards.    Can you see where a lack of clarity like that can cause a misunderstanding?  No?

[Alphadawg7]

28 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Here is your quote:

 

"I remember when people completely went bonkers and kept slamming Shakir when I made similar Kupp comparisons when he was a rookie, and again last year, which is not really a surprise since Shakir has since come out and literally stated he studies Kupp and tries to pattern some of his game off his."

 

Hey, it's your story, bro.

 

You said you made Kupp comparisons.    If people laughed at them maybe you should have clarified that you didn't mean the all-time receiving yardage record kinda' version of Kupp who gains 1947 yards.    Can you see where a lack of clarity like that can cause a misunderstanding?  No?

 
Yeah, similar comparisons, as in what was mentioned in the article.  Based on your post here I am guessing you didn't even read the article otherwise you wouldn't be so confused by the statement.

[Jauronimo]

19 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yeah those "others" probably won't matter unless you have injuries.    

 

The Bills have traditionally just used 3 receivers mostly and when Brady was at Carolina he did the same.

 

But additionally,   with Kincaid and Knox,  I suspect the Bills will run a lot of 12........which means just 2 receiver sets 30%-40% of the time.

 

The top 3 receivers will get all the other snaps they have available unless there are injuries or the top 3 receivers suck.

 

I think a lot of fans have this fantasy that they are going to be regularly substituting and that every receiver will get 20 snaps and a couple targets every game and that will somehow stress the defense.

 

Not realistic.

 

Fans seem to think you lineup 4 or 5 WRs on each play.  Its our WR depth and range of skillset that will stress defenses.  And I agree with them. If we lineup 14 players to the defense's 11 this WR room can pose some serious mismatches.    But if its still 11 on 11 and our best 2 or 3 WRs vs their best 2 or 3 defenders then I remain skeptical of our WRs ability to consistently win matchups. 

 

Upthread some guy spun not having any WRs worthy of double coverage as an advantage!  As if defenses focusing on Diggs was not a major part of Shakir's and Kincaid's production.

 

Do people seriously not remember how disappointed they were in Gabe Davis' production after he went from 3rd and 4th option to #2?

 

[Let's Go Buffalo]

I'm looking forward to seeing his progress from last year to this year, and some of the things he's learned from training with Eric Moulds as well. 

[blacklabel]

I remember reading some stuff just after he was drafted that kinda gave me a good feeling on him. Beane said that a number of other GMs texted/called to give him the business on selecting Shakir. Apparently, those short arms really brought his draft stock down as some GMs told Beane they were gonna snag him in the 6th or 7th, or make a lucrative UDFA offer. 

 

Just read the dudes scouting report. He's a McBeane Era Buffalo Bill to a T. One of those, "great player, better person" types. He has the leadership they covet, he appears to have positional versatility which they also go gaga for, he's a consummate teammate and professional and has a high football IQ. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see him with a C on his jersey this season. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

Fans seem to think you lineup 4 or 5 WRs on each play.  Its our WR depth and range of skillset that will stress defenses.  And I agree with them. If we lineup 14 players to the defense's 11 this WR room can pose some serious mismatches.    But if its still 11 on 11 and our best 2 or 3 WRs vs their best 2 or 3 defenders then I remain skeptical of our WRs ability to consistently win matchups. 

 

Upthread some guy spun not having any WRs worthy of double coverage as an advantage!  As if defenses focusing on Diggs was not a major part of Shakir's and Kincaid's production.

 

Do people seriously not remember how disappointed they were in Gabe Davis' production after he went from 3rd and 4th option to #2?

 

 

While I get your concern, Shakir plays from the Slot, he saw the same defender whether Diggs was on the field or not.  Teams are not moving the top outside corner to play the NCB just to cover Shakir.  More importantly, Davis issues were because of his limitations as a player.  He had Diggs opposite of him his whole career.  He didn't take a step forward because he was not a polished route runner, he had a limited route tree, his awareness was not great, and his hands were not great.  The only area Davis excelled in was blocking, and that is not the kind of "top trait" you want in a starting WR.  

 

And coming into this season, Kincaid is going to draw attention especially in the areas of the field where Shakir eats the most.  Kincaid as a rookie had the 10th most yards in NFL history for any rookie TE and the 4th most catches in NFL history for a rookie TE...and that was despite missing a game and only playing 63% of the snaps.  

 

Kincaid is going to garner plenty of attention.  And then you still have Keon whose size alone warrants extra attention as he will be hard to guard 1 on 1 if he starts having any legit success on the outside with Allen.  So this notion that with Diggs gone no one will garner extra attention is probably a gross exaggeration.  Not to mention you still have to cover the RB's on every pass play as all of our RB's are dangerous out of the backfield in Cook, Davis, and Ty while also accounting still for Allens threat to run.  And Allens threat to run is a bigger factor in opening up things down field and it was a big reason why when Brady took over and Allen basically got turned loose that the offense opened up more and guys like Kincaid and Shakir started making bigger impacts.  

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Let's Go Buffalo said:

I'm looking forward to seeing his progress from last year to this year, and some of the things he's learned from training with Eric Moulds as well. 

 

Unfortunately,  Shakir also sustained a hamstring injury during OTA's in June.

 

He's "expected" to be ready to go by TC but those often linger and recur so it's something to keep an eye on.

 

Especially with a team that also has two highly invested in players in Samuel and Coleman who would benefit greatly from getting those free-release slot reps.

 

As Brett Kollman said in the podcast that was turned into a thread on TSW............the Bills have a whole WR corps of "slot receivers".

[Jauronimo]

34 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

While I get your concern, Shakir plays from the Slot, he saw the same defender whether Diggs was on the field or not.  Teams are not moving the top outside corner to play the NCB just to cover Shakir.  More importantly, Davis issues were because of his limitations as a player.  He had Diggs opposite of him his whole career.  He didn't take a step forward because he was not a polished route runner, he had a limited route tree, his awareness was not great, and his hands were not great.  The only area Davis excelled in was blocking, and that is not the kind of "top trait" you want in a starting WR.  

 

And coming into this season, Kincaid is going to draw attention especially in the areas of the field where Shakir eats the most.  Kincaid as a rookie had the 10th most yards in NFL history for any rookie TE and the 4th most catches in NFL history for a rookie TE...and that was despite missing a game and only playing 63% of the snaps.  

 

Kincaid is going to garner plenty of attention.  And then you still have Keon whose size alone warrants extra attention as he will be hard to guard 1 on 1 if he starts having any legit success on the outside with Allen.  So this notion that with Diggs gone no one will garner extra attention is probably a gross exaggeration.  Not to mention you still have to cover the RB's on every pass play as all of our RB's are dangerous out of the backfield in Cook, Davis, and Ty while also accounting still for Allens threat to run.  And Allens threat to run is a bigger factor in opening up things down field and it was a big reason why when Brady took over and Allen basically got turned loose that the offense opened up more and guys like Kincaid and Shakir started making bigger impacts.  

Without Diggs on the field there is an extra defender somewhere.  No one on this roster commands bracket coverage besides maybe MVS who I expect sees few snaps per game.  Maybe its a spy, maybe its a safety that gets to play center field.  In any event, its not a positive development for this offense despite what some posters have claimed.  

 

The Buffalo Bills have shown no ability to consistently get backs involved in the passing game since Chan Gailey was head coach.

[Mike in Horseheads]

48 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Without Diggs on the field there is an extra defender somewhere.  No one on this roster commands bracket coverage besides maybe MVS who I expect sees few snaps per game.  Maybe its a spy, maybe its a safety that gets to play center field.  In any event, its not a positive development for this offense despite what some posters have claimed.  

 

The Buffalo Bills have shown no ability to consistently get backs involved in the passing game since Chan Gailey was head coach.

He knew how to get them out in space.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

Without Diggs on the field there is an extra defender somewhere.  No one on this roster commands bracket coverage besides maybe MVS who I expect sees few snaps per game.  Maybe its a spy, maybe its a safety that gets to play center field.  In any event, its not a positive development for this offense despite what some posters have claimed.  

 

The Buffalo Bills have shown no ability to consistently get backs involved in the passing game since Chan Gailey was head coach.

 

I mean our RB's had 81 targets last year with the lions share going to Cook.  This year our top 3 RBs are Cook, Davis, and Ty...all 3 are very good at catching the ball and our RB's were much more involved under Brady last year, so I expect over the course of a season those total targets are going to be closer to or exceed 100 total targets.

 

With Keon's size, if he is having any success teams are going to need to cheat coverage towards him.  And Kincaid just put up the 4th most receptions in NFL history by a rookie TE and 10th most in history in yards despite missing one game and playing only 63% of the snaps.  With Diggs gone, teams are not just going to let Kincaid run wild out there, they will also look to give more help on him too.  

 

Teams still have to spy Allen too.  And if teams start cheating a guy towards Shakir, that only further opens up stuff for guys like Keon and Kincaid too.  

 

So for me, I do not agree with the notion that the only person on the team that could be deserving of extra coverage is MVS.  

Edited July 8 by Alphadawg7

[DCofNC]

On 7/6/2024 at 2:54 PM, Charles Romes said:

You really shouldn’t be sneaking up on anyone if you are the #1 NFL WR in reception per target percentage while also being top 15 in YPC. 

2 stats that NOBODY cares about, unless they are grasping at straws to justify trading the only legitimate/proven WR the team had.  Shakir has been a nobody to this point to anyone outside of Buffalo.  He may step up big, I hope he does, but he’s done less than Davis had when he was asked to be a #2 across from an All-Pro and he struggled.   Shakir needs to be ready to take the defense’s best without much of a proven threat to take attention.  His likelihood of success in jumping up to a 1 from a 3 is realistically pretty low.  I’m hopeful, but he’s probably not going to be anything super crazy this year and if he is, it WILL shock the rest of the world.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

Without Diggs on the field there is an extra defender somewhere.  No one on this roster commands bracket coverage besides maybe MVS who I expect sees few snaps per game.  Maybe its a spy, maybe its a safety that gets to play center field.  In any event, its not a positive development for this offense despite what some posters have claimed.  

 

The Buffalo Bills have shown no ability to consistently get backs involved in the passing game since Chan Gailey was head coach.

 

 

When you don't have a difference maker nobody can stop you.

 

 

[Putin]

On 7/7/2024 at 10:56 AM, SCBills said:

I’d hope we’re expecting him to be a better version of what he was last half of the season .. which is a very good player, but not someone we’re expecting to be a WR1. 

Nobody expected Diggs to become W1 being drafted in the 5th round ,  One thing we know is that Josh likes him and most importantly trusts him and for that he’ll get plenty of targets 

Edited July 9 by Putin

[Saxum]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

While I get your concern, Shakir plays from the Slot, he saw the same defender whether Diggs was on the field or not.  Teams are not moving the top outside corner to play the NCB just to cover Shakir.  More importantly, Davis issues were because of his limitations as a player.  He had Diggs opposite of him his whole career.  He didn't take a step forward because he was not a polished route runner, he had a limited route tree, his awareness was not great, and his hands were not great.  The only area Davis excelled in was blocking, and that is not the kind of "top trait" you want in a starting WR. 

 

 

Gabe Davis was heavily planned as part of running game.  He was called out one game for his production in game he did was not a target in a game.

Running game likely will be impacted by Gabe Davis being gone.

[Bermuda Triangle]

12 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Bado, never has anything good to say about the team or 98% of the players, frankly I find him to be humorous, in which you know he will disagree with any positives posted about the team or most players, it’s like clockwork so to speak, lol, 

He/she is predictable, stale and boring.  

[BillsVet]

16 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Without Diggs on the field there is an extra defender somewhere.  No one on this roster commands bracket coverage besides maybe MVS who I expect sees few snaps per game.  Maybe its a spy, maybe its a safety that gets to play center field.  In any event, its not a positive development for this offense despite what some posters have claimed.  

 

The Buffalo Bills have shown no ability to consistently get backs involved in the passing game since Chan Gailey was head coach.

 

Their offense will be more predictable post-Diggs/Davis primarily because all of their receivers save for a declining MVS have the same skill-set.  It's why throwing to backs isn't the change up that people might be hoping for.  

 

There's almost nothing dynamic about this offense, particularly given who the QB is.  And their offensive philosophy is revealed in those skill position players.  As in, having a bunch of slot guys who'll play nearer the LOS.    

 

Speaking of Chan, that 2011 team with Fitz and his modest arm was scoring almost 30 ppg through game 7.  Their passing offense was timing based, although closer to the LOS given their receivers and Fred was running it well.  Jets came to town and disrupted those timing routes by jamming receivers at the LOS and Buffalo went 1-7 thereafter.

 

Buddy and Chan limited themselves in personnel and could not adapt in-season.  At some point this season, Buffalo will revert back to needing Josh to carry them and that's on McBeane for failing to surround him with not only better talent, but a scheme suited to his talents.  

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

Their offense will be more predictable post-Diggs/Davis primarily because all of their receivers save for a declining MVS have the same skill-set.  It's why throwing to backs isn't the change up that people might be hoping for.  

 

There's almost nothing dynamic about this offense, particularly given who the QB is.  And their offensive philosophy is revealed in those skill position players.  As in, having a bunch of slot guys who'll play nearer the LOS.    

 

Speaking of Chan, that 2011 team with Fitz and his modest arm was scoring almost 30 ppg through game 7.  Their passing offense was timing based, although closer to the LOS given their receivers and Fred was running it well.  Jets came to town and disrupted those timing routes by jamming receivers at the LOS and Buffalo went 1-7 thereafter.

 

Buddy and Chan limited themselves in personnel and could not adapt in-season.  At some point this season, Buffalo will revert back to needing Josh to carry them and that's on McBeane for failing to surround him with not only better talent, but a scheme suited to his talents.  

 

Yeah we've seen the personnel limitations get exposed so many times in the last 25 years that it's hard to believe that people still don't realize why you need high end talent.