AP: Jon Gruden loses bid for reconsideration in NFL lawsuit

[Einstein]

23 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

didn’t Gruden’’s email say that Smith has lips “the size of Michelin tires “?   

 

[90sBills]

3 hours ago, FLFan said:

No, if you use racist insults you are racist, despite any good intentions or self denial that person might have.  

But what if you have many friends of the race you insulted? Surely that must counterbalance the insults. 

[JP51]

On 7/6/2024 at 8:05 AM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Don't think this was conjecture 

That's my point this was not some type of innuendo or allegations. The emails were dam$ing and thus I don't feel bad for him

[Sierra Foothills]

4 hours ago, prissythecat said:

didn’t Gruden’’s email say that Smith has lips “the size of Michelin tires “?   

 

Yes, a Gruden email stated exactly the above.

 

[Punching Bag]

When you have as many emails as this there must be emails from other people he emailed with who also were expressing things which they would not want publicized.

I wonder how many of those emails Gruden saved before he quit.

[Don Otreply]

We humans are inherently flawed, every one of us, throughout our lives we are likely to say or do things that cast a shadow on our reputations, and then we recover from it because some of us aren’t ignorant enough to do those things repeatedly, for those without the cognitive capacity to not be, shall we say, stupid for lack of a better word, those folk reap what they sow, 

[prissythecat]

56 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Yes, a Gruden email stated exactly the above.

 

yup .  that’s the simple  point that I was trying to convey .  There is no way to spin that other than a reference to someone’s big lips.  Gruden trying to explain it away as meaning something else is disingenuous lol.  Rubber lips in urban lingo isn’t slang for liar.  And lastly ,  Smith has the lips of someone of African decent .  They aren’t any bigger or smaller .

[stuvian]

We live in an age where every text, email and online post can be used against you. I will never believe that Gruden dressed for Halloween in a KKK costume but he should have been more aware for such a public figure

[thenorthremembers]

Don't do dumb stuff and you get to stay employed.   The NFL may have railroad him, but he served himself up on a silver platter.  There is a fine line between being smart and charismatic and being an arrogant d-bag.   

[Success]

On 7/6/2024 at 7:41 AM, JP51 said:

I hate when people a blackballed from earning a living based on conjecture. But his emails are pretty d@mning and I struggle to feel bad for him 

 

That's kind of where I'm at.

 

But I reject the glee about this.  We're all better than our worst moments - and all of us deserve at least a little better than to be judged by our worst moments.

 

[Bills!Win!]

Id bet a majority of the posters on here wouldn’t get a job if their emails and texts were leaked to a potential future employer 

[Sierra Foothills]

46 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:

Id bet a majority of the posters on here wouldn’t get a job if their emails and texts were leaked to a potential future employer 

 

Maybe that's you and your friends?

 

I'm a red-blooded American male but I'm not a pig, nor a mysognist, nor a racist so you'd be wrong about me and my friends.

 

4 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Don't do dumb stuff and you get to stay employed.   The NFL may have railroad him, but he served himself up on a silver platter.  There is a fine line between being smart and charismatic and being an arrogant d-bag.   

 

You're right about everything you wrote above.

 

Gruden signed a 10 year, $100 million dollar contract.

 

He is an arrogant dirt bag and an idiot.

 

He didn't even have the common sense to protect his own interests.

 

I wonder how his wife and family feel about him.

 

4 hours ago, Success said:

 

That's kind of where I'm at.

 

But I reject the glee about this.  We're all better than our worst moments - and all of us deserve at least a little better than to be judged by our worst moments.

 

 

In Gruden's case, 7 years of worst moments.

 

Edited July 8 by Sierra Foothills

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

14 hours ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Well the mob definitely decided that Matt Azaria is a rap… oh wait 

Now he’s on the Chiefs. Go figure

[Rampant Buffalo]

On 7/6/2024 at 8:14 AM, SoTier said:

Cry me a river for Jon Gruden, a racist pig who got what he deserved when the leaked emails exposed him for the hypocrite he is.  This isn't an issue of someone being falsely accused of doing wrong or being denied the opportunity to rectify an "injustice".  It's simply a ruling on a legal proceeding.  If Gruden doesn't like the rules under which his lawsuit moves forward, he can always withdraw it.

 

Thumbs up for whomever leaked the emails BTW.

 

This was never about the emails.

 

The Washington football team had been investigated. Gruden was an avowed enemy of Roger Goodell. Dan Snyder figured that if he served Gruden's head up on a silver platter, Goodell would owe him a favor. Had things gone according to plan, Snyder's bad behavior would have been swept under the rug, and Goodell would have one less critic in an important position.

 

Snyder's plan backfired. The fact that Gruden's emails were released, while everything else was kept hush hush, increased the scrutiny on his team. The whole situation smelled bad, especially considering those emails had nothing to do with anything the NFL was originally supposed to investigate. So why release something irrelevant to the investigation, while keeping the investigation's results completely quiet?

 

In the end, this situation proved a win for Goodell. He got something (removal of Gruden) in exchange for nothing. Nothing was done to protect Snyder, and it appears as though the NFL may not face any financial penalty for its treatment of Gruden.

[SoTier]

 

16 hours ago, 90sBills said:

But what if you have many friends of the race you insulted? Surely that must counterbalance the insults. 

 

How can you really be friends with people whom you repeatedly insult?   I don't think you can.  My guess is that Gruden split his life into 2 parts: a public part in which he had Black acquaintances and expressed mainstream social views and a private part which he only showed to friends, acquaintances, and others who shared his personal views of everyone who wasn't a white, straight male. 

 

12 hours ago, stuvian said:

We live in an age where every text, email and online post can be used against you. I will never believe that Gruden dressed for Halloween in a KKK costume but he should have been more aware for such a public figure

 

This isn't really anything new.  Many years ago, long before "email" was even a word, one of my teachers warned my classmates and me to "never write anything on paper" that you wouldn't want the world to see.  I was in junior high, and the teacher had just confiscated a note that had been passed around the classroom.   It was good advice 60 years ago and remains valid today, perhaps even more so when just about everything done on a computer or phone can never be completely erased.

 

4 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

 

This was never about the emails.

 

The Washington football team had been investigated. Gruden was an avowed enemy of Roger Goodell. Dan Snyder figured that if he served Gruden's head up on a silver platter, Goodell would owe him a favor. Had things gone according to plan, Snyder's bad behavior would have been swept under the rug, and Goodell would have one less critic in an important position.

 

Snyder's plan backfired. The fact that Gruden's emails were released, while everything else was kept hush hush, increased the scrutiny on his team. The whole situation smelled bad, especially considering those emails had nothing to do with anything the NFL was originally supposed to investigate. So why release something irrelevant to the investigation, while keeping the investigation's results completely quiet?

 

In the end, this situation proved a win for Goodell. He got something (removal of Gruden) in exchange for nothing. Nothing was done to protect Snyder, and it appears as though the NFL may not face any financial penalty for its treatment of Gruden.

 

"This" has always been about the emails in which Gruden expressed his bigotry.   People were shocked by not only by Gruden's racism, homophobia,  and misogyny, but that there were so many over so many years.

 

The emails were never "released" but were leaked to the media by an unknown party.    Gruden hasn't disputed that he wrote and/or forwarded the offensive emails, but rather he's claiming that the NFL leaked the emails.  

 

[Einstein]

13 hours ago, prissythecat said:

yup .  that’s the simple  point that I was trying to convey .  There is no way to spin that other than a reference to someone’s big lips.

 

 

But the problem is this: stating that someone has big lips is not inherently racist. You can certainly interpret it that way, but it remains an ambiguous statement. You might believe he is excusing the statement by saying that, to him, big lips means “liar.” However, this still does not make it inherently racist.

 

The problem is the ambiguity here. An ambiguous statement needs interpretation to fit a particular classification. Others can interpret it differently. This ambiguity is why the Raiders did not immediately fire him.

 

An inherently racist statement, without ambiguity, would be a racial slur, like the N-word, or stereotyping an ethnic group, such as saying “X people are cheap” or one of many other examples - but what Gruden said is not one of them.

 

We also need to consider the overall context when determining whether something was said with racial intent. For instance, if there were more emails with ambiguous statements like the one mentioned, it would be easier to conclude that the person is making racist comments. This is because we do not generally assume someone would make repeated racially ambiguous comments without underlying intent.

 

However, in this case, among 650,000 emails, there was only one email with an ambiguously racial statemnt? So we must ask ourselves - did Gruden wake up one day and decide “today is the day i’m going to make a racial comment in this email - but it won’t be anything clearly racist, like the homophobic emails I send often that I am direct with - this one i’ll make nice and ambiguous”. Or did he really mean that Smith is a liar?

 

That is left up to you to decide.

[JP51]

14 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Don't do dumb stuff and you get to stay employed.   The NFL may have railroad him, but he served himself up on a silver platter.  There is a fine line between being smart and charismatic and being an arrogant d-bag.   

Yes this is the definition of play stupid games win stupid prizes... 

[Sierra Foothills]

8 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

 

This was never about the emails.

 

The Washington football team had been investigated. Gruden was an avowed enemy of Roger Goodell. Dan Snyder figured that if he served Gruden's head up on a silver platter, Goodell would owe him a favor. Had things gone according to plan, Snyder's bad behavior would have been swept under the rug, and Goodell would have one less critic in an important position.

 

Snyder's plan backfired. The fact that Gruden's emails were released, while everything else was kept hush hush, increased the scrutiny on his team. The whole situation smelled bad, especially considering those emails had nothing to do with anything the NFL was originally supposed to investigate. So why release something irrelevant to the investigation, while keeping the investigation's results completely quiet?

 

In the end, this situation proved a win for Goodell. He got something (removal of Gruden) in exchange for nothing. Nothing was done to protect Snyder, and it appears as though the NFL may not face any financial penalty for its treatment of Gruden.

 

I absolutely agree that Gruden was a pawn in a much larger game.

 

Too bad he was both stupid and a bad person simultaneously.

 

Can you imagine shyttinng away $100 million because you thought it was a good use of time to write offensive emails?

 

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

 

 

Can you imagine shyttinng away $100 million because you thought it was a good use of time to write offensive emails?

 

 

Only $40M of that $100M was left to be paid and they reached a settlement on that.

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

Only $40M of that $100M was left to be paid and they reached a settlement on that.

 

It's official, I have no sympathy for Jon Gruden.

 

 

It's an interesting situation. He's 60 years old and sitting on many millions of dollars. Theoretically he never has to work another day in his life but on the other hand, what're you gonna do with yourself for the next 20 years or so?

 

I actually know someone who retired from Wall Street when he was 35 years old... he made at least tens of millions and possibly close to $100 million.

 

He golfed and learned the French language and then went back to work because he was bored and really didn't know what else to do with his life.