The Giants oline last year was historically bad

[78thealltimegreat]

I don’t know how much of that was Daniel Jones and lack of pocket awareness or they are just bad…also Buffalo was pretty good.  
 

 

[Einstein]

Josh Allen bailed the line out of numerous sacks.

 

Allen avoided 75 sacks over 2021 and 2022 alone. Thats second most in the NFL.

 

Last year, only 10% of the QB pressures the line gave up resulted in a sack (because of Allen’s mobility).

 

 

Edited Thursday at 01:57 AM by Einstein

[MJS]

Wow. 2nd all time. Only the Eagles in 1986 gave up more sacks (104).

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Joe Schoen: 

[Matt_In_NH]

Using purely sacks is not a great indicator of how good or bad the OL performance is.  How long does the QB hold the ball, does the QB get out of would be sacks?

[HOUSE]

9 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I don’t know how much of that was Daniel Jones and lack of pocket awareness or they are just bad…also Buffalo was pretty good.  
 

 

The Giants just signed Jones to a 160 million dollar contract so...

He couldn't possibly be the problem

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, Einstein said:

Josh Allen bailed the line out of numerous sacks.

 

Allen avoided 75 sacks over 2021 and 2022 alone. Thats second most in the NFL.

 

Last year, only 10% of the QB pressures the line gave up resulted in a sack (because of Allen’s mobility).

 

 

 

The 2021 and 2022 lines were horrendous. While I am not arguing that giving up the fewest sacks made out 2023 line the best, because a lot of it IS still Allen (although his tendency to hold the football is also responsible for some pressures so it does cut both ways), it was a lot better. It was an average to slightly above average offensive line. 2021 and 2022 were comfortably bottom third of the league.

Edited Thursday at 10:59 AM by GunnerBill

[Captain Hindsight]

29 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

The Giants just signed Jones to a 160 million dollar contract so...

He couldn't possibly be the problem

Jones only played 6 games last year but he was sacked 30 times. I’m higher in jones than most. Dude is tough as nails and a good athlete. He has made some really impressive plays in his career and besides Barkley, who had his own injury history, been surrounded by ***** talent. 
 

When Isiah Hodgins, who was on a PS a few weeks earlier, becomes your best WR, that’s a serious issue. They finally have Nabers this year which should help. Jones may not be the guy, but the giants have given him very little to work with in his career 

[HOUSE]

1 hour ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Jones only played 6 games last year but he was sacked 30 times. I’m higher in jones than most. Dude is tough as nails and a good athlete. He has made some really impressive plays in his career and besides Barkley, who had his own injury history, been surrounded by ***** talent. 
 

When Isiah Hodgins, who was on a PS a few weeks earlier, becomes your best WR, that’s a serious issue. They finally have Nabers this year which should help. Jones may not be the guy, but the giants have given him very little to work with in his career 

The Giants should be paying him $170 mil 

[Billy Claude]

Giants OL was definitely bad but a significant factor was DeVito and Jones:

 

Jones:     1 sack out of every 6.3 dropbacks (att+sacks)

Taylor:     1 out of 11.6

DeVito:    1 out of 5.8

Giants:    1 out of 7.2 -- essentially Rob Johnson numbers (1 out of 6.6)

 

For comparision

 

Allen:   1 out of 25.1

Mahomes: 1 out of 23.1

2023 league average: 1 out of 14.4

 

 

 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

11 hours ago, Einstein said:

Josh Allen bailed the line out of numerous sacks.

 

Allen avoided 75 sacks over 2021 and 2022 alone. Thats second most in the NFL.

 

Last year, only 10% of the QB pressures the line gave up resulted in a sack (because of Allen’s mobility).

 

 

It would also be interesting to see how long Allen held the ball in the sack and pressure situations.  He tends to hold the ball too long and puts the o-line under more pressure.  Some of the reason that he holds the ball has to do with a receiver group that had trouble separating.  Addressing the o-line, receivers, and doing a better job of scheming guys open should improve the overall performance in this area.

[Einstein]

11 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

It would also be interesting to see how long Allen held the ball in the sack and pressure situations.  He tends to hold the ball too long and puts the o-line under more pressure.  Some of the reason that he holds the ball has to do with a receiver group that had trouble separating.  Addressing the o-line, receivers, and doing a better job of scheming guys open should improve the overall performance in this area.

 

Allen had the 4th lowest pocket time of any starting QB in the NFL last season. 2.3 seconds.

[Billy Claude]

15 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

It would also be interesting to see how long Allen held the ball in the sack and pressure situations.  He tends to hold the ball too long and puts the o-line under more pressure.  Some of the reason that he holds the ball has to do with a receiver group that had trouble separating.  Addressing the o-line, receivers, and doing a better job of scheming guys open should improve the overall performance in this area.

 

Its not only how long he holds the ball on average, but also how often he goes to the hot route so that there is no chance that the defense can get pressure on him.   I get the feeling that when he sees a blitz coming, rather than going to the hot route like most QBs, his first inclination is to see it as an opportunity to scramble out of it and make a play downfield agains the reduce coverage.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Allen had the 4th lowest pocket time of any starting QB in the NFL last season. 2.3 seconds.

 

This is partly because he gets blitz a lot, about 30% of the time versus 20% for the league leaders like Purdy, Mahomes, and Tua which is also partly because defenses know he doesn't go to his hot reads very ofien.

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 01:52 PM by Billy Claude

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The 2021 and 2022 lines were horrendous. While I am not arguing that giving up the fewest sacks made out 2023 line the best, because a lot of it IS still Allen (although his tendency to hold the football is also responsible for some pressures so it does cut both ways), it was a lot better. It was an average to slightly above average offensive line. 2021 and 2022 were comfortably bottom third of the league.

 

We were bottom 10 in time-to-throw last season and bottom 5 in pocket time.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Bills do anything good…

 

Bills fans - “Josh Allen Josh Allen Josh Allen.”

 

 

[BillsFooteball]

Giants o-line is poor but they also were absolutely decimated with injuries last year. That combo will get you to historically bad 

[Brand J]

42 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Bills do anything good…

 

Bills fans - “Josh Allen Josh Allen Josh Allen.”

 

 

Josh walks on water with some 😅

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

We were bottom 10 in time-to-throw last season and bottom 5 in pocket time.

 

Pocket time isn't judged as time given in the pocket though. It isn't how long a QB could have stayed there... it is how long they do before they throw or begin to move out. Allen tied Jared Goff who played behind the best Oline in football so some of that is scheme related and amound of quick game which definitely ticked up under Brady.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

53 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Josh walks on water with some 😅

Can’t even give credit to someone else. It’s crazy. There is this belief that Josh has done all these amazing things without any help at all.

 

Josh definitely helps the OL, but as Dawkins will tell you sometimes it’s harder because you never know where he’s going to be.

Edited Thursday at 03:34 PM by Buffalo_Stampede

[Billy Claude]

4 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Jones only played 6 games last year but he was sacked 30 times. I’m higher in jones than most. Dude is tough as nails and a good athlete. He has made some really impressive plays in his career and besides Barkley, who had his own injury history, been surrounded by ***** talent. 
 

 

That Jones was sacked at about the same rate as UDFA Tommy Devito is not a good look, especially as Devito was blitzed more and had a more make-shift line to deal with.