Gregg Posted July 2 Posted July 2 3 minutes ago, 90sBills said: This is the kind of irrational stance that gets BillsMafia laughed at among NFL fans. With each passing year of not winning a superbowl the laughs will only get louder if this opinion remains prevalent among our fanbase. Mahomes is the better QB. But one person can't win a championship. Mahomes has the rings because he has had the better team and coaching staff. Last year the Chiefs had a very good D but in previous years the D was nothing special. Yet they still managed to play well enough for the Chiefs to win in the playoffs. The Bills defense hasn't shown up in many of these playoff games. Allen is an excellent QB and certainly good enough to win a Super Bowl. If the rest of the team doesn't step in big moments, then the Bills will continue to fall short in bringing a Lombardi to Buffalo. 1 Quote
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted July 2 Posted July 2 9 hours ago, 90sBills said: You know it is often said that what separates elite athletes in similar positions are the 6 inches between the ears. I’ve seen Mahomes brought his team back in divisional playoff games after being down 21-0 in the first quarter. I’ve also seen Allen completely forgot how to be an elite qb after his team went down 14-0 in the first quarter. Say what you will about physical abilities (I think Allen is the better athlete btw) but it requires more than that to have sustained success at the highest level. I don’t watch Marvel movies but didn’t Thanos lose at the end? I agree Allen still has work to do between the ears, but his ceiling remains higher than that of any other QB, Mahomes included. Also, we’ve seen Mahomes fall flat in the playoffs as well (Burrow’s AFCCG 2nd half comes to mind for example), so this is not a straight line sort of comparison. Point being, no matter where they may be currently ranked, Allen has more upwards mobility left. 2 Quote
SoMAn Posted July 2 Posted July 2 If all things were equal, they'd be more than close - they'd be equal. The same. Allen is more advanced in the facial hair department, but only because Mahomes is hormonally stuck in early-puberty. Josh is more likeable and as far as we know his brother isn't an a**hole. For all intents and purposes, Josh was the winner in the 13 second game. He had the Bills ahead with only a complete breakdown by the defense and special teams stealing the win. He's also defeated Mahomes-led Chiefs several times in regular season. Allen all day long. 1 Quote
90sBills Posted July 2 Posted July 2 7 minutes ago, Gregg said: Mahomes is the better QB. But one person can't win a championship. Mahomes has the rings because he has had the better team and coaching staff. Last year the Chiefs had a very good D but in previous years the D was nothing special. Yet they still managed to play well enough for the Chiefs to win in the playoffs. The Bills defense hasn't shown up in many of these playoff games. Allen is an excellent QB and certainly good enough to win a Super Bowl. If the rest of the team doesn't step in big moments, then the Bills will continue to fall short in bringing a Lombardi to Buffalo. Absolutely Allen is good enough to win a championship and I’m really hoping he does. This fanbase needs one to exorcise all the demons from those four Super Bowl losses. Mahomes definitely has great support in KC. But he is also the biggest reason they have won championships. Yeah their defense was great last season but was mostly mediocre all the other years. Look at the Super Bowl against the Eagles. They were given up points like they weren’t on the field. Somehow Mahomes found a way to get his team more points. They won that game by taking all the time off the clock and kicking a chip shot winner. Mahomes was disciplined with the short methodical passing game. That’s the kind of discipline we need from Allen to close out big games against tough opponents. 2 Quote
90sBills Posted July 2 Posted July 2 22 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: I agree Allen still has work to do between the ears, but his ceiling remains higher than that of any other QB, Mahomes included. Also, we’ve seen Mahomes fall flat in the playoffs as well (Burrow’s AFCCG 2nd half comes to mind for example), so this is not a straight line sort of comparison. Point being, no matter where they may be currently ranked, Allen has more upwards mobility left. That 2nd half against Cincy was really the only instance I’ve seen Mahomes struggled in the playoffs. It was also the point where his game evolved. He learned from that and has won 2 consecutive Super Bowls since that game, including beating that same Cincy team the following year in another AFCCG. I hope you’re right about Allen’s ceiling being higher than Mahomes. IMO, Allen just getting to Mahomes level would increase our odds of winning a championship. Quote
Mango Posted July 2 Posted July 2 22 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: I think it's safe to say that if you polled the coaches, GM's, and players that Allen would be QB2 behind Mahomes by the end of that poll. And I think the vote would be pretty decisively Mahomes 1 and Allen 2. In the media, amongst fans, social media, etc he would probably still finish QB2 but likely by a narrower margin as he has a larger group of detractors there then the people who play against him. But what do the numbers say? Well I think they may surprise some... The QB's job is to score points, and right off the bat we know he has the most TD's in NFL history for a players first 6 seasons. Now the detractors will come back and say that is only because Mahomes sat his first year...well that isn't accurate, Mahomes played 1 game and Allen missed 6 games. So Allen only played 9 games more his rookie year and did so throwing to Benjamin as his lead WR without the luxury of sitting a year behind a quality vet. But...lets remove this argument all together and just focus on since 2020 when Allen arrived as a top tier QB. Since 2020, Allen has the most TD's in the NFL with 174. In 2nd place is Mahomes with a distant 151. 3rd place is even further back at 125 (Herbert). Allen has an NFL record 4 consecutive seasons of 40+ TD's and counting. He puts up 40 again and he extends that record to 5 consecutive seasons. And Allen has done that with 3 OC's in 4 seasons, and an inferior set of weapons compared to many other top QB's Some were saying 2023 was a down year for Allen, like he regressed and took a step back. But did he really? He led the NFL in TD's He led the NFL in TD's vs top 10 defenses with 20 He is first in points added per game vs top 10 defenses wtih 3.8 He again finished in top 5 voting for MVP and only person not named Lamar to get a vote and the only player to finish in the top 5 the past 2 seasons...and that was with Dorsey clown show for 75% of those games. And this was with tension with Diggs and an OC switch week 11. Then there is the argument that Allens turnovers are why he has not won a Super Bowl and why some lower is QB ranking below guys like Burrow who also has not won a SB, but had his defense help him reach one. Allen has the lowest Interception % of all QB's with at least 350 career playoff passing attempts at just 1.1%. Mahomes is 2nd at 1.2% He only has 2 lost fumbles in his playoff career too. There are a lot more stats you can review, I picked some of the more interesting ones from a couple different articles I came across, I will add the links below. So...who really is the best QB in the NFL if all things were equal? On one hand, Allen has statistically produced more with less advantages than Mahomes, but Mahomes has the rings ...but he also had the supporting cast make the plays when it matters, especially on defense because SB rings are a team accomplishment and too much credit/blame is assigned to the QB in regard to winning a SB or not. Josh Allen stats that will irritate non-Bills fans 20 Unbelievable stats for his 28th birthday What an absolutely insanely specific stat. This list of current starting QB's in the NFl with more than 350 playoff passing attempts is Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers, Russel Wilson, and Josh Allen. That's it. That is the entire list. But hey, I guess if you dropped the threshold to 300 playoff pass attempts he would lose to Jared Goff. LOL. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_att_career_playoffs.htm I am not even arguing with you one way or another. This is just a silly exercise. Quote
ganesh Posted July 2 Posted July 2 When the MVP voting happened, the only other player to get a 1st place vote was Josh Allen and it was not Mahomes. Mahomes was ok during the season and stepped up during the playoffs taking his team to yet another SuperBowl win. Quote
LarryMadman Posted July 2 Posted July 2 2 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: I agree Allen still has work to do between the ears, but his ceiling remains higher than that of any other QB, Mahomes included. Also, we’ve seen Mahomes fall flat in the playoffs as well (Burrow’s AFCCG 2nd half comes to mind for example), so this is not a straight line sort of comparison. Point being, no matter where they may be currently ranked, Allen has more upwards mobility left. Tampa wrecked him in the SB 1 Quote
JP51 Posted July 2 Posted July 2 22 hours ago, Gregg said: I really don't care who is better between Mahomes and Allen. I do think Mahomes is the best QB in the league. You can't argue with success. The only that matters is Allen is more than good enough to win a Super Bowl for the Bills. I believe this is truth Quote
90sBills Posted July 2 Posted July 2 25 minutes ago, LarryMadman said: Tampa wrecked him in the SB When a qb is missing four OL starters and played with turf toe that required surgery days after the game I would hope any NFL competent DL could wrecked him. Since the guy has been to four Super Bowls I’m guessing he could afford to lose one. Some qb never even get a chance to be wrecked in a Super Bowl. Quote
Goin Breakdown Posted July 2 Posted July 2 If all things are equal then wouldn't Mahomes and Allen be equal? Quote
Paup 1995MVP Posted July 2 Posted July 2 On 7/1/2024 at 12:32 PM, Alphadawg7 said: I think it's safe to say that if you polled the coaches, GM's, and players that Allen would be QB2 behind Mahomes by the end of that poll. And I think the vote would be pretty decisively Mahomes 1 and Allen 2. In the media, amongst fans, social media, etc he would probably still finish QB2 but likely by a narrower margin as he has a larger group of detractors there then the people who play against him. But what do the numbers say? Well I think they may surprise some... The QB's job is to score points, and right off the bat we know he has the most TD's in NFL history for a players first 6 seasons. Now the detractors will come back and say that is only because Mahomes sat his first year...well that isn't accurate, Mahomes played 1 game and Allen missed 6 games. So Allen only played 9 games more his rookie year and did so throwing to Benjamin as his lead WR without the luxury of sitting a year behind a quality vet. But...lets remove this argument all together and just focus on since 2020 when Allen arrived as a top tier QB. Since 2020, Allen has the most TD's in the NFL with 174. In 2nd place is Mahomes with a distant 151. 3rd place is even further back at 125 (Herbert). Allen has an NFL record 4 consecutive seasons of 40+ TD's and counting. He puts up 40 again and he extends that record to 5 consecutive seasons. And Allen has done that with 3 OC's in 4 seasons, and an inferior set of weapons compared to many other top QB's Some were saying 2023 was a down year for Allen, like he regressed and took a step back. But did he really? He led the NFL in TD's He led the NFL in TD's vs top 10 defenses with 20 He is first in points added per game vs top 10 defenses wtih 3.8 He again finished in top 5 voting for MVP and only person not named Lamar to get a vote and the only player to finish in the top 5 the past 2 seasons...and that was with Dorsey clown show for 75% of those games. And this was with tension with Diggs and an OC switch week 11. Then there is the argument that Allens turnovers are why he has not won a Super Bowl and why some lower is QB ranking below guys like Burrow who also has not won a SB, but had his defense help him reach one. Allen has the lowest Interception % of all QB's with at least 350 career playoff passing attempts at just 1.1%. Mahomes is 2nd at 1.2% He only has 2 lost fumbles in his playoff career too. There are a lot more stats you can review, I picked some of the more interesting ones from a couple different articles I came across, I will add the links below. So...who really is the best QB in the NFL if all things were equal? On one hand, Allen has statistically produced more with less advantages than Mahomes, but Mahomes has the rings ...but he also had the supporting cast make the plays when it matters, especially on defense because SB rings are a team accomplishment and too much credit/blame is assigned to the QB in regard to winning a SB or not. Josh Allen stats that will irritate non-Bills fans 20 Unbelievable stats for his 28th birthday Mahomes is a whiny B word. Allen is one hell of a cool dude. I want Allen as my guy every day over Mahomes and twice on Sunday! The thing that burns me up is that noone tries to light Mahomes up when he is running out of bounds. Its like the league has told teams, your guys will be suspended if you take Mahomes out when he is running for the sidelines. The Raider game on Christmas day is a perfect example. (And Mahomes was ***** that day btw) And then the playoff game against Miami. Noone wanted to even touch him on the Miami defense. I know it was brutally cold. But come on. Aren't defensive guys paid to hit offensive guys? Where is Kiko Alonso when you need him? Mahomes also has had Kelce. Especially in the playoffs. Diggs has never been Kelce. And he wasn't anything for us in the playoffs. The best Josh Allen had in the playoffs was Gabe Davis against Indy and one game against the Chiefs. On 7/1/2024 at 12:32 PM, Alphadawg7 said: I think it's safe to say that if you polled the coaches, GM's, and players that Allen would be QB2 behind Mahomes by the end of that poll. And I think the vote would be pretty decisively Mahomes 1 and Allen 2. In the media, amongst fans, social media, etc he would probably still finish QB2 but likely by a narrower margin as he has a larger group of detractors there then the people who play against him. But what do the numbers say? Well I think they may surprise some... The QB's job is to score points, and right off the bat we know he has the most TD's in NFL history for a players first 6 seasons. Now the detractors will come back and say that is only because Mahomes sat his first year...well that isn't accurate, Mahomes played 1 game and Allen missed 6 games. So Allen only played 9 games more his rookie year and did so throwing to Benjamin as his lead WR without the luxury of sitting a year behind a quality vet. But...lets remove this argument all together and just focus on since 2020 when Allen arrived as a top tier QB. Since 2020, Allen has the most TD's in the NFL with 174. In 2nd place is Mahomes with a distant 151. 3rd place is even further back at 125 (Herbert). Allen has an NFL record 4 consecutive seasons of 40+ TD's and counting. He puts up 40 again and he extends that record to 5 consecutive seasons. And Allen has done that with 3 OC's in 4 seasons, and an inferior set of weapons compared to many other top QB's Some were saying 2023 was a down year for Allen, like he regressed and took a step back. But did he really? He led the NFL in TD's He led the NFL in TD's vs top 10 defenses with 20 He is first in points added per game vs top 10 defenses wtih 3.8 He again finished in top 5 voting for MVP and only person not named Lamar to get a vote and the only player to finish in the top 5 the past 2 seasons...and that was with Dorsey clown show for 75% of those games. And this was with tension with Diggs and an OC switch week 11. Then there is the argument that Allens turnovers are why he has not won a Super Bowl and why some lower is QB ranking below guys like Burrow who also has not won a SB, but had his defense help him reach one. Allen has the lowest Interception % of all QB's with at least 350 career playoff passing attempts at just 1.1%. Mahomes is 2nd at 1.2% He only has 2 lost fumbles in his playoff career too. There are a lot more stats you can review, I picked some of the more interesting ones from a couple different articles I came across, I will add the links below. So...who really is the best QB in the NFL if all things were equal? On one hand, Allen has statistically produced more with less advantages than Mahomes, but Mahomes has the rings ...but he also had the supporting cast make the plays when it matters, especially on defense because SB rings are a team accomplishment and too much credit/blame is assigned to the QB in regard to winning a SB or not. Josh Allen stats that will irritate non-Bills fans 20 Unbelievable stats for his 28th birthday Mahomes is a whiny B word. Allen is one hell of a cool dude. I want Allen as my guy every day over Mahomes and twice on Sunday! The thing that burns me up is that noone tries to light Mahomes up when he is running out of bounds. Its like the league has told teams, your guys will be suspended if you take Mahomes out when he is running for the sidelines. The Raider game on Christmas day is a perfect example. (And Mahomes was ***** that day btw) And then the playoff game against Miami. Noone wanted to even touch him on the Miami defense. I know it was brutally cold. But come on. Aren't defensive guys paid to hit offensive guys? Where is Kiko Alonso when you need him? Mahomes also has had Kelce. Especially in the playoffs. Diggs has never been Kelce. And he wasn't anything for us in the playoffs. The best Josh Allen had in the playoffs was Gabe Davis against Indy and one game against the Chiefs. On 7/1/2024 at 12:32 PM, Alphadawg7 said: I think it's safe to say that if you polled the coaches, GM's, and players that Allen would be QB2 behind Mahomes by the end of that poll. And I think the vote would be pretty decisively Mahomes 1 and Allen 2. In the media, amongst fans, social media, etc he would probably still finish QB2 but likely by a narrower margin as he has a larger group of detractors there then the people who play against him. But what do the numbers say? Well I think they may surprise some... The QB's job is to score points, and right off the bat we know he has the most TD's in NFL history for a players first 6 seasons. Now the detractors will come back and say that is only because Mahomes sat his first year...well that isn't accurate, Mahomes played 1 game and Allen missed 6 games. So Allen only played 9 games more his rookie year and did so throwing to Benjamin as his lead WR without the luxury of sitting a year behind a quality vet. But...lets remove this argument all together and just focus on since 2020 when Allen arrived as a top tier QB. Since 2020, Allen has the most TD's in the NFL with 174. In 2nd place is Mahomes with a distant 151. 3rd place is even further back at 125 (Herbert). Allen has an NFL record 4 consecutive seasons of 40+ TD's and counting. He puts up 40 again and he extends that record to 5 consecutive seasons. And Allen has done that with 3 OC's in 4 seasons, and an inferior set of weapons compared to many other top QB's Some were saying 2023 was a down year for Allen, like he regressed and took a step back. But did he really? He led the NFL in TD's He led the NFL in TD's vs top 10 defenses with 20 He is first in points added per game vs top 10 defenses wtih 3.8 He again finished in top 5 voting for MVP and only person not named Lamar to get a vote and the only player to finish in the top 5 the past 2 seasons...and that was with Dorsey clown show for 75% of those games. And this was with tension with Diggs and an OC switch week 11. Then there is the argument that Allens turnovers are why he has not won a Super Bowl and why some lower is QB ranking below guys like Burrow who also has not won a SB, but had his defense help him reach one. Allen has the lowest Interception % of all QB's with at least 350 career playoff passing attempts at just 1.1%. Mahomes is 2nd at 1.2% He only has 2 lost fumbles in his playoff career too. There are a lot more stats you can review, I picked some of the more interesting ones from a couple different articles I came across, I will add the links below. So...who really is the best QB in the NFL if all things were equal? On one hand, Allen has statistically produced more with less advantages than Mahomes, but Mahomes has the rings ...but he also had the supporting cast make the plays when it matters, especially on defense because SB rings are a team accomplishment and too much credit/blame is assigned to the QB in regard to winning a SB or not. Josh Allen stats that will irritate non-Bills fans 20 Unbelievable stats for his 28th birthday Mahomes is a whiny B word. Allen is one hell of a cool dude. I want Allen as my guy every day over Mahomes and twice on Sunday! The thing that burns me up is that noone tries to light Mahomes up when he is running out of bounds. Its like the league has told teams, your guys will be suspended if you take Mahomes out when he is running for the sidelines. The Raider game on Christmas day is a perfect example. (And Mahomes was ***** that day btw) And then the playoff game against Miami. Noone wanted to even touch him on the Miami defense. I know it was brutally cold. But come on. Aren't defensive guys paid to hit offensive guys? Where is Kiko Alonso when you need him? Mahomes also has had Kelce. Especially in the playoffs. Diggs has never been Kelce. And he wasn't anything for us in the playoffs. The best Josh Allen had in the playoffs was Gabe Davis against Indy and one game against the Chiefs. On 7/1/2024 at 12:32 PM, Alphadawg7 said: I think it's safe to say that if you polled the coaches, GM's, and players that Allen would be QB2 behind Mahomes by the end of that poll. And I think the vote would be pretty decisively Mahomes 1 and Allen 2. In the media, amongst fans, social media, etc he would probably still finish QB2 but likely by a narrower margin as he has a larger group of detractors there then the people who play against him. But what do the numbers say? Well I think they may surprise some... The QB's job is to score points, and right off the bat we know he has the most TD's in NFL history for a players first 6 seasons. Now the detractors will come back and say that is only because Mahomes sat his first year...well that isn't accurate, Mahomes played 1 game and Allen missed 6 games. So Allen only played 9 games more his rookie year and did so throwing to Benjamin as his lead WR without the luxury of sitting a year behind a quality vet. But...lets remove this argument all together and just focus on since 2020 when Allen arrived as a top tier QB. Since 2020, Allen has the most TD's in the NFL with 174. In 2nd place is Mahomes with a distant 151. 3rd place is even further back at 125 (Herbert). Allen has an NFL record 4 consecutive seasons of 40+ TD's and counting. He puts up 40 again and he extends that record to 5 consecutive seasons. And Allen has done that with 3 OC's in 4 seasons, and an inferior set of weapons compared to many other top QB's Some were saying 2023 was a down year for Allen, like he regressed and took a step back. But did he really? He led the NFL in TD's He led the NFL in TD's vs top 10 defenses with 20 He is first in points added per game vs top 10 defenses wtih 3.8 He again finished in top 5 voting for MVP and only person not named Lamar to get a vote and the only player to finish in the top 5 the past 2 seasons...and that was with Dorsey clown show for 75% of those games. And this was with tension with Diggs and an OC switch week 11. Then there is the argument that Allens turnovers are why he has not won a Super Bowl and why some lower is QB ranking below guys like Burrow who also has not won a SB, but had his defense help him reach one. Allen has the lowest Interception % of all QB's with at least 350 career playoff passing attempts at just 1.1%. Mahomes is 2nd at 1.2% He only has 2 lost fumbles in his playoff career too. There are a lot more stats you can review, I picked some of the more interesting ones from a couple different articles I came across, I will add the links below. So...who really is the best QB in the NFL if all things were equal? On one hand, Allen has statistically produced more with less advantages than Mahomes, but Mahomes has the rings ...but he also had the supporting cast make the plays when it matters, especially on defense because SB rings are a team accomplishment and too much credit/blame is assigned to the QB in regard to winning a SB or not. Josh Allen stats that will irritate non-Bills fans 20 Unbelievable stats for his 28th birthday Mahomes is a whiny B word. Allen is one hell of a cool dude. I want Allen as my guy every day over Mahomes and twice on Sunday! The thing that burns me up is that noone tries to light Mahomes up when he is running out of bounds. Its like the league has told teams, your guys will be suspended if you take Mahomes out when he is running for the sidelines. The Raider game on Christmas day is a perfect example. (And Mahomes was ***** that day btw) And then the playoff game against Miami. Noone wanted to even touch him on the Miami defense. I know it was brutally cold. But come on. Aren't defensive guys paid to hit offensive guys? Where is Kiko Alonso when you need him? Mahomes also has had Kelce. Especially in the playoffs. Diggs has never been Kelce. And he wasn't anything for us in the playoffs. The best Josh Allen had in the playoffs was Gabe Davis against Indy and one game against the Chiefs. On 7/1/2024 at 12:32 PM, Alphadawg7 said: I think it's safe to say that if you polled the coaches, GM's, and players that Allen would be QB2 behind Mahomes by the end of that poll. And I think the vote would be pretty decisively Mahomes 1 and Allen 2. In the media, amongst fans, social media, etc he would probably still finish QB2 but likely by a narrower margin as he has a larger group of detractors there then the people who play against him. But what do the numbers say? Well I think they may surprise some... The QB's job is to score points, and right off the bat we know he has the most TD's in NFL history for a players first 6 seasons. Now the detractors will come back and say that is only because Mahomes sat his first year...well that isn't accurate, Mahomes played 1 game and Allen missed 6 games. So Allen only played 9 games more his rookie year and did so throwing to Benjamin as his lead WR without the luxury of sitting a year behind a quality vet. But...lets remove this argument all together and just focus on since 2020 when Allen arrived as a top tier QB. Since 2020, Allen has the most TD's in the NFL with 174. In 2nd place is Mahomes with a distant 151. 3rd place is even further back at 125 (Herbert). Allen has an NFL record 4 consecutive seasons of 40+ TD's and counting. He puts up 40 again and he extends that record to 5 consecutive seasons. And Allen has done that with 3 OC's in 4 seasons, and an inferior set of weapons compared to many other top QB's Some were saying 2023 was a down year for Allen, like he regressed and took a step back. But did he really? He led the NFL in TD's He led the NFL in TD's vs top 10 defenses with 20 He is first in points added per game vs top 10 defenses wtih 3.8 He again finished in top 5 voting for MVP and only person not named Lamar to get a vote and the only player to finish in the top 5 the past 2 seasons...and that was with Dorsey clown show for 75% of those games. And this was with tension with Diggs and an OC switch week 11. Then there is the argument that Allens turnovers are why he has not won a Super Bowl and why some lower is QB ranking below guys like Burrow who also has not won a SB, but had his defense help him reach one. Allen has the lowest Interception % of all QB's with at least 350 career playoff passing attempts at just 1.1%. Mahomes is 2nd at 1.2% He only has 2 lost fumbles in his playoff career too. There are a lot more stats you can review, I picked some of the more interesting ones from a couple different articles I came across, I will add the links below. So...who really is the best QB in the NFL if all things were equal? On one hand, Allen has statistically produced more with less advantages than Mahomes, but Mahomes has the rings ...but he also had the supporting cast make the plays when it matters, especially on defense because SB rings are a team accomplishment and too much credit/blame is assigned to the QB in regard to winning a SB or not. Josh Allen stats that will irritate non-Bills fans 20 Unbelievable stats for his 28th birthday Mahomes is a whiny B word. Allen is one hell of a cool dude. I want Allen as my guy every day over Mahomes and twice on Sunday! The thing that burns me up is that noone tries to light Mahomes up when he is running out of bounds. Its like the league has told teams, your guys will be suspended if you take Mahomes out when he is running for the sidelines. The Raider game on Christmas day is a perfect example. (And Mahomes was ***** that day btw) And then the playoff game against Miami. Noone wanted to even touch him on the Miami defense. I know it was brutally cold. But come on. Aren't defensive guys paid to hit offensive guys? Where is Kiko Alonso when you need him? Mahomes also has had Kelce. Especially in the playoffs. Diggs has never been Kelce. And he wasn't anything for us in the playoffs. The best Josh Allen had in the playoffs was Gabe Davis against Indy and one game against the Chiefs. On 7/1/2024 at 12:32 PM, Alphadawg7 said: I think it's safe to say that if you polled the coaches, GM's, and players that Allen would be QB2 behind Mahomes by the end of that poll. And I think the vote would be pretty decisively Mahomes 1 and Allen 2. In the media, amongst fans, social media, etc he would probably still finish QB2 but likely by a narrower margin as he has a larger group of detractors there then the people who play against him. But what do the numbers say? Well I think they may surprise some... The QB's job is to score points, and right off the bat we know he has the most TD's in NFL history for a players first 6 seasons. Now the detractors will come back and say that is only because Mahomes sat his first year...well that isn't accurate, Mahomes played 1 game and Allen missed 6 games. So Allen only played 9 games more his rookie year and did so throwing to Benjamin as his lead WR without the luxury of sitting a year behind a quality vet. But...lets remove this argument all together and just focus on since 2020 when Allen arrived as a top tier QB. Since 2020, Allen has the most TD's in the NFL with 174. In 2nd place is Mahomes with a distant 151. 3rd place is even further back at 125 (Herbert). Allen has an NFL record 4 consecutive seasons of 40+ TD's and counting. He puts up 40 again and he extends that record to 5 consecutive seasons. And Allen has done that with 3 OC's in 4 seasons, and an inferior set of weapons compared to many other top QB's Some were saying 2023 was a down year for Allen, like he regressed and took a step back. But did he really? He led the NFL in TD's He led the NFL in TD's vs top 10 defenses with 20 He is first in points added per game vs top 10 defenses wtih 3.8 He again finished in top 5 voting for MVP and only person not named Lamar to get a vote and the only player to finish in the top 5 the past 2 seasons...and that was with Dorsey clown show for 75% of those games. And this was with tension with Diggs and an OC switch week 11. Then there is the argument that Allens turnovers are why he has not won a Super Bowl and why some lower is QB ranking below guys like Burrow who also has not won a SB, but had his defense help him reach one. Allen has the lowest Interception % of all QB's with at least 350 career playoff passing attempts at just 1.1%. Mahomes is 2nd at 1.2% He only has 2 lost fumbles in his playoff career too. There are a lot more stats you can review, I picked some of the more interesting ones from a couple different articles I came across, I will add the links below. So...who really is the best QB in the NFL if all things were equal? On one hand, Allen has statistically produced more with less advantages than Mahomes, but Mahomes has the rings ...but he also had the supporting cast make the plays when it matters, especially on defense because SB rings are a team accomplishment and too much credit/blame is assigned to the QB in regard to winning a SB or not. Josh Allen stats that will irritate non-Bills fans 20 Unbelievable stats for his 28th birthday Mahomes is a whiny B word. Allen is one hell of a cool dude. I want Allen as my guy every day over Mahomes and twice on Sunday! The thing that burns me up is that noone tries to light Mahomes up when he is running out of bounds. Its like the league has told teams, your guys will be suspended if you take Mahomes out when he is running for the sidelines. The Raider game on Christmas day is a perfect example. (And Mahomes was ***** that day btw) And then the playoff game against Miami. Noone wanted to even touch him on the Miami defense. I know it was brutally cold. But come on. Aren't defensive guys paid to hit offensive guys? Where is Kiko Alonso when you need him? Mahomes also has had Kelce. Especially in the playoffs. Diggs has never been Kelce. And he wasn't anything for us in the playoffs. The best Josh Allen had in the playoffs was Gabe Davis against Indy and one game against the Chiefs. 1 Quote
Gugny Posted July 2 Posted July 2 On 7/1/2024 at 12:51 PM, GoBills808 said: from a resume and narrative perspective it isn't close but put them on the same field in the playoffs and allen tends to shine And lose. Quote
hondo in seattle Posted July 2 Posted July 2 13 hours ago, Doc Brown said: When Allen is completely on (think Dolphins home game last year) he's better than Mahomes at his best. He's hardly ever completely on though so you've got to give it to Mahomes for his consistency. Mahomes is more discipline too. If Mahomes was our quarterback in the last playoff game he would've checked it down to Diggs instead of trying a low percentage throw to the middle of the back of the end zone 25 yards down the field to Shakir. To me that's pretty obvious at this point. They're both tremendous QBs. Both can both make jaw-dropping escapes and then deliver unbelievable throws 50 yards downfield. But Mahomes chooses the safe, high-percentage throw more often than Josh. Sometimes, especially in close games when the offense has been struggling, Josh presses. As I see it, the main difference between Josh and Pat isn't physical. It's mental. It's about decision making. 1 1 Quote
Putin Posted July 2 Posted July 2 On 7/1/2024 at 11:51 AM, GoBills808 said: from a resume and narrative perspective it isn't close but put them on the same field in the playoffs and allen tends to shine 100% 2 hours ago, 90sBills said: That 2nd half against Cincy was really the only instance I’ve seen Mahomes struggled in the playoffs. It was also the point where his game evolved. He learned from that and has won 2 consecutive Super Bowls since that game, including beating that same Cincy team the following year in another AFCCG. I hope you’re right about Allen’s ceiling being higher than Mahomes. IMO, Allen just getting to Mahomes level would increase our odds of winning a championship. What is Mahomes level ???? are you talking about the SB’s or the playing level ??? Quote
GoBills808 Posted July 2 Posted July 2 7 minutes ago, Gugny said: And lose. yes, that's the mentality ive seen this offseason. bills fans are so used to seeing the patriots at the top for all those years we just transferred our stockholm syndrome from one tormentor to the next. people think it's an inevitability the chiefs will always win and that our only hope is to just avoid them en route to a super bowl. this thinking is understandable when we have ej manuel or tyrod taylor at QB. w a guy like Allen...well you said it best. it's a loser mindset Quote
Gugny Posted July 2 Posted July 2 6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: yes, that's the mentality ive seen this offseason. bills fans are so used to seeing the patriots at the top for all those years we just transferred our stockholm syndrome from one tormentor to the next. people think it's an inevitability the chiefs will always win and that our only hope is to just avoid them en route to a super bowl. this thinking is understandable when we have ej manuel or tyrod taylor at QB. w a guy like Allen...well you said it best. it's a loser mindset This has nothing to do with Patriots PTSD. It has everything to do with the McDermott/Allen-era Bills finding ways to lose in the playoffs. As far as the Chiefs always winning … that’s been happening since Mahomes got there. No one is imagining these things. Quote
SaulGoodman Posted July 2 Posted July 2 Kills me that people think Mahomes has had everything one could want. To date, he hasn't had one "loaded," balanced roster. Horrible WR play last year, weak tackle play the last two years, depleted/awful OL in 2020, usually a weak running game, and weak/average defense almost every year to date. Also kills me that people think Allen's had poor rosters in recent years. They've been among the best by pretty much any measure since 2020 or so. Quote
90sBills Posted July 2 Posted July 2 13 minutes ago, Putin said: 100% What is Mahomes level ???? are you talking about the SB’s or the playing level ??? Mental grasp of the game in the qb position. Knowing when to take chances and when not to. Play within that parameter to give your team the best chance of winning. SB’s will come if Allen can do this. I’m hoping he can. 1 Quote
GoBills808 Posted July 2 Posted July 2 2 minutes ago, Gugny said: This has nothing to do with Patriots PTSD. It has everything to do with the McDermott/Allen-era Bills finding ways to lose in the playoffs. As far as the Chiefs always winning … that’s been happening since Mahomes got there. No one is imagining these things. i dont know what your point is Quote
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