How close is Allen to Mahomes if all things were equal?

[90sBills]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yet the 2 time MVP is Lamar Jackson.

It’s always a losing effort to insert Lamar on your side of a debate. But let’s go with it. Lamar and Allen are view similarly in terms of a dual threat qb etc. So what does that say that Lamar has 2 MVPs and Allen has 0? It means squat because Allen is the much better passer and that’s the ultimate indicator for a qb. Not running ability. 

38 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Then why ever give Lamar an MVP? For his playoff success? For his arm? Nope. It’s his hybrid ability that Allen also shines at—and leads in hurdle “spectacularity” as well! 😜

Allen is a much better qb than Lamar and it has nothing to do with his running or hurdling abilities. 

[SirAndrew]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

Allen has 38 more turnovers in just two less career games.     They are pretty much neck in neck when it comes to touchdowns and overall yards, but the turnovers, to me, are the equalizer.   Allen is the 2nd best quarterback in the league but Pat is #1.

I never criticize Allen, and I don’t want him to ever change. However, you’re correct. It’s not what Mahomes does better, it’s what Mahones doesn’t do. Allen can win a title, and I wouldn’t take anyone else. He can be great in his own right. The difference is you’re not going to see Mahomes fumble at the one yard line trying to ice the game like Allen against the Vikings. I don’t even like saying that, but that is the difference, although I think Allen is the better athlete. Everything about Allen might be better, but mistakes separate the two. 

[Alphadawg7]

12 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Show me. Should be easy. 
 

Im not talking about a tweet with 3 likes. 
 

If Mahomes and Allen swapped spots, Mahomes would be more successful. Because he’s the better QB.

 

Show you what?  What are you even asking me to show you?

 

So...Allen has more touchdowns working with less...but you think somehow if Mahomes and Allen switched spots Allens numbers wouldn't be even better? LOL..come on, that is rich from you.  Arent you the same guy who has been complaining about the lack of weapons for Allen?  The same guy who has complained about our coaching?  So for you to say that now would contradict a lot of your past rants about the coaching and weapons around Allen.

[FireChans]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Show you what?  What are you even asking me to show you?

 

So...Allen has more touchdowns working with less...but you think somehow if Mahomes and Allen switched spots Allens numbers wouldn't be even better? LOL..come on, that is rich from you.  Arent you the same guy who has been complaining about the lack of weapons for Allen?  The same guy who has complained about our coaching?  So for you to say that now would contradict a lot of your past rants about the coaching and weapons around Allen.

I think Allen needs better weapons to outperform Mahomes because he is a worse QB. 
 

No contradiction here lol

[SCBills]

13 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Compare Allen’s numbers with Daboll. He was a pretty good OC that got an HC job.
 

Outside of that outlier 2021 season, it’s not all that different. 94.3 passer rating in 2020 playoffs. 
 

Like I have said in the past, the 2021 playoff run is really the only reason that anyone think Josh is on Mahomes level. And it was an awesome run, that Josh has never been able to replicate again.

 

Could be due to the fact it was the most absurd run any QB has had in the playoffs.  Weird ask to think Josh Allen needs to do that every postseason.. but, you might be correct, given the advantages Mahomes has over him in terms of available player personnel and coaching every time we meet them in the Playoffs.

[julian]

22 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Of course they don't. 

 

Mahomes has rings.  Allen does not. 

 

Mahomes was also drafted to a win-now team and has had Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce and Chris Jones.. Two Offensive player and one Defensive player better than anyone we've ever had in Allen's tenure.

 

He's also had an all-time great Offensive mind at HC, along with (arguably) the best DC and (arguably) the best GM. 

 

For as good as this Bills team has been around Allen, they've always been behind the Chiefs in terms of:

 

GM

Coaching

Elite Players

Injury Luck

 

And Allen has been tasked with needing to overcome all of those deficits.  Some minor, some more noticeable, but all deficits.

 

Until Allen wins a ring, the conversation is about who's #2.. and that's clearly Allen. 

 

However if things out of his control (13 Seconds and our injury situation this past year) played out differently.. The Allen vs Mahomes conversation is very different. 

Bingo…. And just watching them play football it’s obvious Allen is bigger, stronger, faster and is just the biggest single highlight machine in football.

 

rings are something that falls under team success with many different contributing factors, if you just showed non football fans a 30 min video of Mahomes and Allen playing at their highest level and asked who they believed to be thought of as the better player… the answer would Allen and I’m guessing by an almost unanimous vote.

[dpberr]

I think if you put both quarterbacks on the worst team in the league and asked them to win a game running their plays and their OC calling those plays, I think Josh Allen wins a game before Patrick Mahomes does.

 

I think Allen is the better quarterback both physically and tactically, and I think he's more adapt to working with what he's got on offense.  

 

I think Patrick Mahomes has benefited *greatly* from Andy Reid's genius for football. He's a generational tactician and strategist.   

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

We can compare the last 2 seasons, in which both players had probably the most comparable group of offensive talent around them.

 

Allen:

 

2-2, 63% completion, 11 TD's (4.6%), 3 INT's (2%) 299 YPG, 90.0 passer rating

 

Mahomes:

 

7-0, 70% completion, 13 TD's (5.2%), 1 INT (0.4%) 279 YPG, 107.5 passer rating

 

Allen is a lot closer to a guy who had one incredible Mahomes plus playoff run than a guy who is actually consistently on his level.

Passer rating is outing yourself in this discussion

[MJS]

Mahomes is the best. But honestly, why does it matter? There is a little too much obsession with ranking one above the other.

[Zerovoltz]

......This really isn't what matters.   Allen and Mahomes are both really good QB's.  I would also tell you that if my team won a Super Bowl led by Elvis Grbac...I'd take that everytime over having the best QB.  Hopefully you guys will get one (or more) very soon  Allen is worthy.  Your fanbase is awesome.  

 

Be glad you have Allen....he's so fun to watch and has the Bills competing as a top teir contender year in and year out.  If God appeared and just said, yep Allen is the best QB...would you really feel any better about things?  You guys need a ring.

[BullBuchanan]

Why can't Allen just be "really good" and that be enough? Putting him ahead of Mahomes, who has probably already locked up #2 QB of all time, is completely delusional, even in a hypothetical. There's probably a healthy amount of people that would even have Burrow in the conversation for #2 right now, but they're both way behind Mahomes, imo.

[FireChans]

58 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Passer rating is outing yourself in this discussion

Feel free to do your own work and share with the class

[first_and_ten]

 

Put Josh Allen on those KC teams and he's a three time Super Bowl champion. Put Mahomes on the Bills and we still do not have a Super Bowl. 

[Freddie's Dead]

Allen is better than Mahomes.  Mahomes doesn't make the SB with the Bills "weapons", or McD as head coach.  It's why I want McD gone.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Feel free to do your own work and share with the class

i've done this topic front and back

 

how about this- you always jump in when there's criticism of Allen to be had. i'm on record saying McDermott is a mid HC...i want to hear you admit you believe the reason we don't have a SB is Allen.

[US Egg]

It’s simple. It comes down to W’s. Nothing else.

[Rocky Landing]

I voted Allen. If this question had been asked even at the beginning of last season, I still would have voted Allen, but deep down, I wouldn't have meant it. I'm just a homer. But, now? I actually believe it. 

[Taro Nimbus]

Until the Bills win a championship, Mahomes will always be considered better than Allen.  Even if the stats are similar. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

......This really isn't what matters.   Allen and Mahomes are both really good QB's.  I would also tell you that if my team won a Super Bowl led by Elvis Grbac...I'd take that everytime over having the best QB.  Hopefully you guys will get one (or more) very soon  Allen is worthy.  Your fanbase is awesome.  

 

Be glad you have Allen....he's so fun to watch and has the Bills competing as a top teir contender year in and year out.  If God appeared and just said, yep Allen is the best QB...would you really feel any better about things?  You guys need a ring.

 

Yeah, I will take a SB over a player 100% of the time.  Ravens don't love their SB trophy any less because Dilfer was their QB.  

 

Allen and Mahomes are easily to the two most need to watch players in the NFL, on any given play they can do something that no one else can do.  Its like watching Barry Sanders play, on any given play you can have your mind blown.  

 

I just came across these articles and its a good reminder to just how good Allen really is, and with less.  I think his rings are coming, and yes, I said "rings" as in multiple.

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

For my opinion on my own question...

 

Mahomes and Allen can do things no other QB in the NFL can do, they are clearly the top 2 guys.  However, there are a couple more things Allen can do that Mahomes can't, and I think you see that reflected in the TD total gap and it comes down to what they can do with their legs.  Both are excellent at using their legs to extend plays or make a huge play running with the ball.  However, Allens power and size just afford him a slightly bigger arsenal than Mahomes.  

...

 

I agree...  Sometimes Josh is superhuman.  Sometimes he makes plays with his arm and/or legs and my jaw drops to the floor as I think, "No one else could do that!"

 

But is that the true measure of a QB?  Brady rarely made plays that other QBs couldn't make.  But he was special for a long time because of his presnap reads, consistency, drive to win, ability to elevate the team around him, etc.  When you put it all together, I think Mahomes is considered the best in the league for good reasons.