DapperCam Posted July 3 Posted July 3 I honestly think it's impossible to know. The number of times I've seen Mahomes flip the ball to a wide open receiver or tight end for a TD is crazy. Just look at the TD to Kelce in the playoffs where Poyer blew the coverage. Literally the greatest TE of all time wide open in the end zone. He could have stopped running and walked in backwards. Now maybe Mahomes is great because he has the elite awareness to know when these guys will be open and Allen wouldn't have that same ability. But I think a lot of it is how great Reid is. Quote
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 3 Posted July 3 13 minutes ago, DapperCam said: I honestly think it's impossible to know. The number of times I've seen Mahomes flip the ball to a wide open receiver or tight end for a TD is crazy. Just look at the TD to Kelce in the playoffs where Poyer blew the coverage. Literally the greatest TE of all time wide open in the end zone. He could have stopped running and walked in backwards. Now maybe Mahomes is great because he has the elite awareness to know when these guys will be open and Allen wouldn't have that same ability. But I think a lot of it is how great Reid is. Kelce runs whatever he wants. Mahomes and Kelce just do their own thing. Not talked about enough when discussing how great Reid is. I’ve long called Reid the best coach in football, even before Mahomes, but Kelce gets open because of Kelce. Quote
DapperCam Posted July 3 Posted July 3 48 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Kelce runs whatever he wants. Mahomes and Kelce just do their own thing. Not talked about enough when discussing how great Reid is. I’ve long called Reid the best coach in football, even before Mahomes, but Kelce gets open because of Kelce. I think it's a synergistic thing where they all help each other. If the defenses weren't already so stressed by Reid's scheme and Mahomes' talent, then maybe Kelce isn't able to do what he does quite as much. Kelce will be retired soon, and hopefully Reid decides to enjoy his golden years soon. Then we'll have a better answer for the question in the OP. Quote
Einstein Posted July 3 Posted July 3 2 hours ago, CoudyBills said: Jordan and Brady both seemed to come out on top too. Dismantle their successes next please... It is not dismantling - it is asking the question of who would have similar results if in their same situation. It is recognizing that each QB’s situation is different and that the environment they are in has much to do with their success. It is being wise enough to understand that Peyton Manning is a better QB than Terry Bradshaw, even though Bradshaw has more rings. It is realizing that Aaron Rodgers on the Patriots would have a handful of rings and that supporting cast and coaching are significant contributors to trophy achievement. ”He’d throw for 7,000 yards every year,” (if he was on the Patriots) - Tom Brady to an NFL coach back around 2018. If you don’t have the wisdom to recognize and understand this, then just say so. Quote
Einstein Posted July 3 Posted July 3 1 hour ago, DapperCam said: The number of times I've seen Mahomes flip the ball to a wide open receiver or tight end for a TD is crazy Yes. It is a mixture of incredible route running by Kelce and impressive play scheming by Reid. People forget that the Chiefs went 12-4 with Alex Smith as QB before drafting Mahomes. 12-4… with Alex Smith. They also forget that in Alex Smith’s last year in KC before Mahomes took over, he threw for over 4,000 yards and had only 5 INT’s. Alex Smith… 4000 yards and 5 INT’s. The conclusion is clear: Much of this is Reid and Kelce (and also Hill when he was there). It’s Mahomes too, of course. This is not to dismiss how great he has been. He is great. But to ignore that he walked into the most perfect situation in NFL history is to choose to be ignorant. I have zero doubt that Allen has the rings if he was drafted to KC, and Mahomes would be talked about as runner up to Allen if we drafted him here. 1 1 1 Quote
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted July 3 Posted July 3 This discussion is so homeristic and so tiresome. Doesn’t matter without the hardware to show for it.. Dan Marino was probably a better quarterback than Jim Kelly, and what did that get him? 1 Quote
FireChans Posted July 3 Posted July 3 35 minutes ago, Einstein said: Yes. It is a mixture of incredible route running by Kelce and impressive play scheming by Reid. People forget that the Chiefs went 12-4 with Alex Smith as QB before drafting Mahomes. 12-4… with Alex Smith. They also forget that in Alex Smith’s last year in KC before Mahomes took over, he threw for over 4,000 yards and had only 5 INT’s. Alex Smith… 4000 yards and 5 INT’s. The conclusion is clear: Much of this is Reid and Kelce (and also Hill when he was there). It’s Mahomes too, of course. This is not to dismiss how great he has been. He is great. But to ignore that he walked into the most perfect situation in NFL history is to choose to be ignorant. I have zero doubt that Allen has the rings if he was drafted to KC, and Mahomes would be talked about as runner up to Allen if we drafted him here. Alex Smith was a solid QB. Who had developed a rep of being a safe QB after his first rough couple years. His INT totals in his last 2 years in SF were 5 and 5. His career low in INT% was in SF in 2011. Does Reid get credit for winning football games with a relatively limited QB? For sure, but it’s not like Smith didn’t accomplish similar things with Harbaugh. Alex Smith was criminally underrated on this board. He would’ve been the second best QB in Bills history at the time had we gotten him in 2013. 2 1 Quote
90sBills Posted July 3 Posted July 3 3 hours ago, CoudyBills said: Honest question, have any of the true "dual threat" quarterbacks ever won a superbowl? None that I can think of. Cam Newton made it to a Super Bowl. Steve Young was probably the closest. His game got better when he focused more on passing and ran less. I don’t see Allen as a dual threat qb like Hurts or Lamar. That’s why I think his game would be much better if he limits his running. But most of the fanbase want him to continue trucking LB’s. It’s bizarre to want that for your franchise quarterback. Quote
Alphadawg7 Posted July 3 Author Posted July 3 1 hour ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said: This discussion is so homeristic and so tiresome. Doesn’t matter without the hardware to show for it.. Dan Marino was probably a better quarterback than Jim Kelly, and what did that get him? The same as Kelly...no rings. Quote
GoBills808 Posted July 3 Posted July 3 1 hour ago, FireChans said: Alex Smith was a solid QB. Who had developed a rep of being a safe QB after his first rough couple years. His INT totals in his last 2 years in SF were 5 and 5. His career low in INT% was in SF in 2011. Does Reid get credit for winning football games with a relatively limited QB? For sure, but it’s not like Smith didn’t accomplish similar things with Harbaugh. Alex Smith was criminally underrated on this board. He would’ve been the second best QB in Bills history at the time had we gotten him in 2013. Yeah that was the year he was so great they benched him for Kaepernick 😂😂 Quote
FireChans Posted July 3 Posted July 3 Just now, GoBills808 said: Yeah that was the year he was so great they benched him for Kaepernick 😂😂 2011? He won 13 games and went the conference championship where they lost to the eventual champs by 3 points in OT. Got further than he ever did with Andy. Although, to be fair, that was when Andy was still a notorious playoff choker and managed to lose a playoff game they were up 38-10. what a success with Andy Reid lmao. Quote
GoBills808 Posted July 3 Posted July 3 1 minute ago, FireChans said: 2011? He won 13 games and went the conference championship where they lost to the eventual champs by 3 points in OT. Got further than he ever did with Andy. Although, to be fair, that was when Andy was still a notorious playoff choker and managed to lose a playoff game they were up 38-10. what a success with Andy Reid lmao. This is how weird your argument has gotten lol You are propping up Alex Smith and knocking Andy Reid Alex Smith =Tyrod Taylor Quote
Gregg Posted July 3 Posted July 3 4 hours ago, CoudyBills said: Honest question, have any of the true "dual threat" quarterbacks ever won a superbowl? John Elway. Elway early in his career would take off and run quite a bit. But not at the level of Allen and Jackson as the game was different then but Elway could and did run when had to. On the flip side when he did win his Super Bowls he wasn't running as much but he didn't have to when he had a RB like Davis 1 Quote
CincyBillsFan Posted July 3 Posted July 3 On 7/1/2024 at 1:48 PM, 90sBills said: Cool. Let’s talk passing TDs where most people focus on for quarterbacks. If "most people" only focus on passing today's for QB's how do you explain TWO MVP's for Lamar Jackson? Mahomes is put ahead of Allen because he has won/been to multiple Super Bowls. That is a huge achievement. At the same time I have no doubt that if if you switched circumstances with Mahomes going to the Bills in 2017 and Allen going to the Chiefs in 2018 the order would be reversed and Allen would be the #1 rated QB in the NFL with Mahomes in 2nd place. Quote
FireChans Posted July 3 Posted July 3 4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: This is how weird your argument has gotten lol You are propping up Alex Smith and knocking Andy Reid Alex Smith =Tyrod Taylor 1 hour ago, FireChans said: Alex Smith was a solid QB. Who had developed a rep of being a safe QB after his first rough couple years. His INT totals in his last 2 years in SF were 5 and 5. His career low in INT% was in SF in 2011. Does Reid get credit for winning football games with a relatively limited QB? For sure, but it’s not like Smith didn’t accomplish similar things with Harbaugh. Alex Smith was criminally underrated on this board. He would’ve been the second best QB in Bills history at the time had we gotten him in 2013. Point made. Bills fans diminishing other players to prop up their own inferior ones. Man oh man, it would be so funny if history repeated itself today in a QB debate. Quote
Success Posted July 3 Posted July 3 1 hour ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said: This discussion is so homeristic and so tiresome. Doesn’t matter without the hardware to show for it.. Dan Marino was probably a better quarterback than Jim Kelly, and what did that get him? Ah, yes - the ol' "Dilfer is better than (insert every QB who was clearly better but didn't win a SB)" argument. It's not golf. Quote
PrimeTime101 Posted July 3 Posted July 3 On 7/1/2024 at 1:21 PM, HOUSE said: Voting for Mahomes is certain death I hear Exposure to Chlorine Trifluoride is a painful death... But I think the best option is to Quote
GoBills808 Posted July 3 Posted July 3 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Point made. Bills fans diminishing other players to prop up their own inferior ones. Man oh man, it would be so funny if history repeated itself today in a QB debate. come back to being a bills fan! its more fun over here trust me 1 Quote
Matt_In_NH Posted July 3 Posted July 3 Just from postseason, if you pick Allen or anyone over Mahomes you are a homer. I would like to think Allen is two but that is not as clear to me, number one is obvious but there is a big gap between him and the next tier, of which Allen is a part of. Turnovers and "risk of injury" based on his style would be things point to as knocks on Allen. Quote
GoBills808 Posted July 3 Posted July 3 1 minute ago, Matt_In_NH said: Just from postseason, if you pick Allen or anyone over Mahomes you are a homer. I would like to think Allen is two but that is not as clear to me, number one is obvious but there is a big gap between him and the next tier, of which Allen is a part of. Turnovers and "risk of injury" based on his style would be things point to as knocks on Allen. thats very backwards mahomes is the better regular season qb, allen is the better playoff qb so all things considered give me allen Quote
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