How close is Allen to Mahomes if all things were equal?

[90sBills]

3 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

Kills me that people think Mahomes has had everything one could want. To date, he hasn't had one "loaded," balanced roster. Horrible WR play last year, weak tackle play the last two years, depleted/awful OL in 2020, usually a weak running game, and weak/average defense almost every year to date. 

 

Also kills me that people think Allen's had poor rosters in recent years. They've been among the best by pretty much any measure since 2020 or so. 

 

 

Why would it kill you when your team is winning Super Bowls? Weird take. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

 

 

What an absolutely insanely specific stat. This list of current starting QB's in the NFl with more than 350 playoff passing attempts is Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers, Russel Wilson, and Josh Allen. That's it. That is the entire list. 

But hey, I guess if you dropped the threshold to 300 playoff pass attempts he would lose to Jared Goff. LOL. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_att_career_playoffs.htm

I am not even arguing with you one way or another. This is just a silly exercise. 

 

1.  Are you sure it's only current QB's and not any QB all time with at least 350 attempts?

2. You have to have enough of a sizable sample for the sample to matter in terms of determining a reliable expectation.

3. I am not the one who found the stat, it was in the article I linked.

5 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Why did you ask one question in the title, but a different one in the poll?

 

The one in the poll was the original, but it caused some early talk to go the wrong direction, so clarified it better in the post title and forgot to adjust it in the poll.  

Edited July 2 by Alphadawg7

[Gugny]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

i dont know what your point is

My point is to say that your “Bills fans have a loser mentality” theory doesn’t hold water. 
 

Unless I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

My point is to say that your “Bills fans have a loser mentality” theory doesn’t hold water. 
 

Unless I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying. 

im saying there are people who have conceded we are never beating the chiefs in the playoffs like @FireChansand @GunnerBill 

 

which i halfway agree with tbh...but i go further to say as constructed we are never beating anybody of consequence a la bengals etc in the playoffs when it matters

 

the folks to whom im referring are convinced we would be sb champs if only for the chiefs and i see little evidence of that

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

im saying there are people who have conceded we are never beating the chiefs in the playoffs like @FireChansand @GunnerBill 

 

which i halfway agree with tbh...but i go further to say as constructed we are never beating anybody of consequence a la bengals etc in the playoffs when it matters

 

the folks to whom im referring are convinced we would be sb champs if only for the chiefs and i see little evidence of that

 

I have not conceded that. 

[hondo in seattle]

21 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

Kills me that people think Mahomes has had everything one could want. To date, he hasn't had one "loaded," balanced roster. Horrible WR play last year, weak tackle play the last two years, depleted/awful OL in 2020, usually a weak running game, and weak/average defense almost every year to date. 

 

Also kills me that people think Allen's had poor rosters in recent years. They've been among the best by pretty much any measure since 2020 or so. 

 

 

 

You may disagree and I'm aware of the PFF grades, but in my estimation the OL has ranged from poor to mediocre during Josh's years.  When Josh is so important to this team, he deserves a better bodyguard.  

 

Kincaid was a good addition, but outside of Diggs and Allen, in my eyes our offense has consisted mostly of jags.  

 

Our offense delivers good passing stats because we have Allen as our QB. 

 

Our offense deliver good running stats because we have Allen as our QB.

 

Allen is the scariest runner on the team - the ball carrier defenses worry most about.  The RBs often deliver decent YPCs because defenses are exclusively focused on Allen the passer and Allen the runner - not on our running backs.  

 

I agree, though, that Mahomes and Reid have had roster challenges to overcome as well.  

[Gugny]

10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

im saying there are people who have conceded we are never beating the chiefs in the playoffs like @FireChansand @GunnerBill 

 

which i halfway agree with tbh...but i go further to say as constructed we are never beating anybody of consequence a la bengals etc in the playoffs when it matters

 

the folks to whom im referring are convinced we would be sb champs if only for the chiefs and i see little evidence of that

 

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have not conceded that. 

Are you two gonna fight?  
 

I'm guessing that GunnerBill hits like a girl. 
 

But from what I understand, GB808 is a midget, so it might not matter. 
 

If I were a betting man, I think I’d put my money on the Pacific Islander. 

 

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have not conceded that. 

you were agreeing w the guy who said this

 

On 6/27/2024 at 4:37 AM, FireChans said:

so how much different are the Chiefs at this point? 
 

Best QB, check

best HC, check

best TE, check

weak division, check

 

We are living in the new Pats dynasty right now.

 

 

[Rampant Buffalo]

11 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

These teams have had similar talent the last four years (I'd even give the Bills the edge in a few of those). I don't see any reason to think Allen would have accomplished the same or more. Especially if he had to deal with the same circumstances, such as the high ankle sprain, no WRs in the AFCC vs Cincy, a decimated OL in the 2020 playoffs, last year's drops/turnovers, and mediocre/poor defense most years. 

 

Bills fans believe that Allen's better because he has a hell of an arm, scored more TDs last year, and he's thrown more flashy bombs the past couple seasons. He might have the stronger arm, but he falls short in the mental aspect of the game. 

 

 

Mahomes' receivers were a joke last year. It was comical how often they screwed up. Allen's had better offensive talent the past two years, and better defenses every year but one. How has Mahomes' supporting cast been "that" much better? It's very debatable that it's been better at all the last few seasons. 

 

Allen's receivers had 160 yards of drops in this most recent playoff loss. Show me a postseason game where Mahomes' receivers came anywhere close to doing that.

 

This past season, Mahomes had a Hall of Fame offensive mind drawing up plays (Andy Reid), a Hall of Fame TE, an outstanding interior OL, a good #1 WR in the form of Rashee Rice. Rice was still learning early in the season, but was a good player late season and in the postseason. In other words, he was the polar opposite of Diggs. If I'm an NFL QB, I'd ten times rather have Mahomes' situation than Allen's. Obviously.

 

And if we're talking injury, I'd point to the fact that Allen was playing hurt this past season with a shoulder injury.

 

There was one time in Allen's career when his supporting cast was somewhat comparable to Mahomes'. Not completely, but somewhat. Allen responded by putting up the best QB rating in NFL postseason history. There's more to Allen than just "flashy bombs" or a "stronger arm."

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

you were agreeing w the guy who said this

 

 

 

Yea I think beating them in the playoffs is really ***** difficult. It is why excluding Tom Brady games they are 15-1. But I don't concede we never can. The margins between us are so tight. One can absolutely go our way. Can we displace them as the dominant force in the AFC? I'd lean towards no there. 

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Are you two gonna fight?  
 

I'm guessing that GunnerBill hits like a girl. 
 

But from what I understand, GB808 is a midget, so it might not matter. 
 

If I were a betting man, I think I’d put my money on the Pacific Islander. 

 

 

I don't think I have ever thrown a punch. Not to the best of my memory anyway. A couple of aggressive shoves that have made my point but that is it in my 40 years.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

 

Allen's receivers had 160 yards of drops in this most recent playoff loss. Show me a postseason game where Mahomes' receivers came anywhere close to doing that.

 

This past season, Mahomes had a Hall of Fame offensive mind drawing up plays (Andy Reid), a Hall of Fame TE, an outstanding interior OL, a good #1 WR in the form of Rashee Rice. Rice was still learning early in the season, but was a good player late season and in the postseason. In other words, he was the polar opposite of Diggs. If I'm an NFL QB, I'd ten times rather have Mahomes' situation than Allen's. Obviously.

 

And if we're talking injury, I'd point to the fact that Allen was playing hurt this past season with a shoulder injury.

 

There was one time in Allen's career when his supporting cast was somewhat comparable to Mahomes'. Not completely, but somewhat. Allen responded by putting up the best QB rating in NFL postseason history. There's more to Allen than just "flashy bombs" or a "stronger arm."

fyi you quoting a chiefs fan

 

seems to be a lot of them around here these days 😂😂

[Doc Brown]

53 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

They're both tremendous QBs.  Both can both make jaw-dropping escapes and then deliver unbelievable throws 50 yards downfield.  

 

But Mahomes chooses the safe, high-percentage throw more often than Josh.  Sometimes, especially in close games when the offense has been struggling, Josh presses.  As I see it, the main difference between Josh and Pat isn't physical.  It's mental.  It's about decision making.  

I agree that mentally Mahomes is better.  He's a better distributor of the football and makes smarter decisions on a more consistent basis.  You do seem to be implying that physically they're just the same though by both being "tremendous QB's."  Even if I concede they have the same arm strength/escapability/make jaw dropping throws, etc....... Mahomes can't run over a defensive lineman and two linebackers to make a first down on 3rd and 12.  That's why I don't think this isn't a clear cut debate that Mahomes is by far the better QB.

[FireChans]

13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

you were agreeing w the guy who said this

 

 

That’s because Brady and BB ended up 30-11 in the postseason. 
 

There will be more Chiefs playoff losses with Reid/Mahomes. But lots of teams that play them lots of times are gonna lose more often than they win. Like us.

 

If you don’t think we can ever beat any other good team in playoffs, I disagree but I understand why you’d be done with McD.

I don’t agree with that.

 

 I think it’s going to be really hard to get past the Chiefs. As evidenced by 3/4 last seasons. I think we have better odds of winning the SB if someone else knocked out the Chiefs in the playoffs. 
 

I am on record that if McD and co lose to any other team in the playoffs that aren’t the Chiefs, I’m ready to pull the plug

[Rampant Buffalo]

17 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

fyi you quoting a chiefs fan

 

seems to be a lot of them around here these days 😂😂

 

Thanks for the heads up! 👍 I hadn't been aware of that.

[Artful Dodger]

Until Allen wins something, Mahomes should be considered the better quarterback.  Once the Bills win the Super Bowl, the narrative will change.  

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, Artful Dodger said:

Until Allen wins something, Mahomes should be considered the better quarterback.  Once the Bills win the Super Bowl, the narrative will change.  

 

Allen would probably have to win two Super Bowls for the narrative to start to change. Right now, its 3-0 in championships and 4-0 if you count SB appearances.

[billsbackto81]

6 hours ago, FireChans said:

Mahomes would be better. Not sure about 3 rings. More rings than Allen tho.

Maybe Mahomes would've faired better due to his elusiveness and improvisation under McDermott.

 

But, you can't tell me with the talent JA possesses and the offensive scheming  Reid designs that he would have not excelled under his tutelage.

 

Anybody here with some sense would agree Mahomes is the best, but like Purdy and Hurts he fell into a real nice situation compared to most rookie QBs that fall into "rebuild" situations. 

 

 

[strive_for_five_guy]

I was talking to a Chiefs fan last week, and it came up that I’m a Bills fan.  Without any prodding from my end, he started by saying JA is the best QB in the game.  And went on to say JA would be way better off playing for Andy Reid rather than McD.  Which I agree with, but would still love to see McD help this team finally get a ring this upcoming season for as hard as we all know the guy works.

[90sBills]

14 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Allen would probably have to win two Super Bowls for the narrative to start to change. Right now, it’s out 3-0 in championships and 4-0 if you count SB appearances.

You’re right. KC is officially a dynasty now. Sneaking one in during their reign is not going to change people’s opinions of their team or their qb. Similar to Pitt winning during the Pats run. No one said Big Ben was better than Brady. 
 

[MrJanuary]

22 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

I was talking to a Chiefs fan last week, and it came up that I’m a Bills fan.  Without any prodding from my end, he started by saying JA is the best QB in the game.  And went on to say JA would be way better off playing for Andy Reid rather than McD.  Which I agree with, but would still love to see McD help this team finally get a ring this upcoming season for as hard as we all know the guy works.

 

Edited July 2 by MrJanuary