How close is Allen to Mahomes if all things were equal?

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, 90sBills said:

Cool. Let’s talk passing TDs where most people focus on for quarterbacks. 

 

Didn't realize passing TD's were worth more points than rushing TD's.  

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

And no one is denying that...but what if Allen was playing for KC in those same playoff games?  How much better would his numbers be under Reid and having guys like Kelce and Hill and having a defense not choke away games with players like Chris Jones making the plays to end them?

 

That is the real question...if all things were equal, would it really still be Mahomes or not?  I think the answer to that question is a lot closer than people think.

We can compare the last 2 seasons, in which both players had probably the most comparable group of offensive talent around them.

 

Allen:

 

2-2, 63% completion, 11 TD's (4.6%), 3 INT's (2%) 299 YPG, 90.0 passer rating

 

Mahomes:

 

7-0, 70% completion, 13 TD's (5.2%), 1 INT (0.4%) 279 YPG, 107.5 passer rating

 

Allen is a lot closer to a guy who had one incredible Mahomes plus playoff run than a guy who is actually consistently on his level.

[90sBills]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Didn't realize passing TD's were worth more points than rushing TD's.  

They don’t. What they are is a more important stat for quarterbacks. It’s the quarterback’s job to pass the ball not run the ball. Be a field general and distribute the ball. It’s probably why qb’s get paid the most money. To pass not run. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

9 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Cool. Let’s talk passing TDs where most people focus on for quarterbacks. 

Then why ever give Lamar an MVP? For his playoff success? For his arm? Nope. It’s his hybrid ability that Allen also shines at—and leads in hurdle “spectacularity” as well! 😜

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Allen with Reid would be far better than Mahommes with McDermott.  My guess Allen with Reid turns the ball over less, runs less, but still scores at the same rate as he always has.

 

Herbert with Harbaugh will be in this conversation by year end though

7 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

They don’t. What they are is a more important stat for quarterbacks. It’s the quarterback’s job to pass the ball not run the ball. Be a field general and distribute the ball. It’s probably why qb’s get paid the most money. To pass not run. 

It's the QBs job to not throw INTs. Score by run or pass makes no difference.  YPA and int% are the two most critical stats for a QB.

[JP51]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

No other fanbases outside of Bills even think this is a real debate. Mahomes is the best then everybody else end of story.

 

Allen is #2 imo and there’s a lot to be proud about that in a league with many young talented quarterbacks. 

I agree... winning is the measuring stick above all... until Allen does that he wont surpass Mahomes ... stats no stats... I get if all things were equal...  But if I am honest I dont think Allen on the Chiefs gets them to 4 out of 5 Superbowls and wins 3.... 

[FireChans]

this topic:

 

https://forums.colts.com/topic/61237-why-brady-is-not-the-goat/

 

 

 

[julian]

Allen… has more tools in his bag than any QB in history, he can just do more than every other QB

[Putin]

54 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

If Allen and Mahomes swapped teams, everything else remaining the same, Allen would be the one with multiple SBs and MVPs while Mahomes had nothing. 

This ^^^^ 100% 

54 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

If Allen and Mahomes swapped teams, everything else remaining the same, Allen would be the one with multiple SBs and MVPs while Mahomes had nothing. 

This ^^^^ 100% 

[Gregg]

I really don't care who is better between Mahomes and Allen. I do think Mahomes is the best QB in the league. You can't argue with success. The only that matters is Allen is more than good enough to win a Super Bowl for the Bills. 

[Putin]

54 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

If Allen and Mahomes swapped teams, everything else remaining the same, Allen would be the one with multiple SBs and MVPs while Mahomes had nothing. 

This ^^^^ 100% 

 

50 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Mahomes.

 

Mahomes playoff numbers:

 

15-3, 67.9 completion%, 46 TD’s (6.9 TD%), 8 INT’s (1.2 INT%), 315 YPG, 105.8 passer rating

 

Allen’s playoff numbers:

5-5, 64.6 completion%, 27 TD’s (5.6 TD%), 4 INT’s (1.1 INT%) 328 YPG, 100.0 passer rating

 

It’s not really a debate. Allen elevates in the playoffs and plays close to his level but there’s a definite gap imo.

 

Yes that gap is the coaching and healthy defense 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Putin said:

This ^^^^ 100% 

 

Yes that gap is the coaching and healthy defense 

???

[Alphadawg7]

28 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

They don’t. What they are is a more important stat for quarterbacks. It’s the quarterback’s job to pass the ball not run the ball. Be a field general and distribute the ball. It’s probably why qb’s get paid the most money. To pass not run. 

 

Yet the 2 time MVP is Lamar Jackson.

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

No other fanbases outside of Bills even think this is a real debate. Mahomes is the best then everybody else end of story.

 

Allen is #2 imo and there’s a lot to be proud about that in a league with many young talented quarterbacks. 

 

Of course they don't. 

 

Mahomes has rings.  Allen does not. 

 

Mahomes was also drafted to a win-now team and has had Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce and Chris Jones.. Two Offensive player and one Defensive player better than anyone we've ever had in Allen's tenure.

 

He's also had an all-time great Offensive mind at HC, along with (arguably) the best DC and (arguably) the best GM. 

 

For as good as this Bills team has been around Allen, they've always been behind the Chiefs in terms of:

 

GM

Coaching

Elite Players

Injury Luck

 

And Allen has been tasked with needing to overcome all of those deficits.  Some minor, some more noticeable, but all deficits.

 

Until Allen wins a ring, the conversation is about who's #2.. and that's clearly Allen. 

 

However if things out of his control (13 Seconds and our injury situation this past year) played out differently.. The Allen vs Mahomes conversation is very different. 

[Tuco]

Setting aside the fact that Mahomes has an offensive coach whose playbook has much more imagination than anything Josh has been exposed to, outside of Bills nation, everyone knows what the photos below clearly demonstrate. The photo on the left is a QB who is great. The QB on the right is pretty good but chokes in big games.

 

[FireChans]

Just now, Tuco said:

Setting aside the fact that Mahomes has an offensive coach whose playbook has much more imagination than anything Josh has been exposed to, outside of Bills nation, everyone knows what the photos below clearly demonstrate. The photo on the left is a QB who is great. The QB on the right is pretty good but chokes in big games.

 

I’ve never heard anyone call Allen a choker lol. 
 

Bills fans out here fighting the voices in their heads.

[Alphadawg7]

32 minutes ago, FireChans said:

We can compare the last 2 seasons, in which both players had probably the most comparable group of offensive talent around them.

 

Allen:

 

2-2, 63% completion, 11 TD's (4.6%), 3 INT's (2%) 299 YPG, 90.0 passer rating

 

Mahomes:

 

7-0, 70% completion, 13 TD's (5.2%), 1 INT (0.4%) 279 YPG, 107.5 passer rating

 

Allen is a lot closer to a guy who had one incredible Mahomes plus playoff run than a guy who is actually consistently on his level.

 

Allen had 2 OC's over that span, a first time OC who was fired 10 games into his 2nd season.  Mahomes had Reid.  You don't think that carries some weight in that comparison?  Mahomes also had a defense that didn't force him to carry the team and press.  Allen had a disgruntled WR as his top target...Mahomes had his bestie in Kelce as his who is probably also the GOAT at TE.  

 

The 2 situations are not equal.  What if Mahomes and Allen swapped spots these past 2 years?  

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

I’ve never heard anyone call Allen a choker lol. 
 

Bills fans out here fighting the voices in their heads.

 

You don't read enough social media or watch enough sports talk shows as it happens allllll the time. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Allen had 2 OC's over that span, a first time OC who was fired 10 games into his 2nd season.  Mahomes had Reid.  You don't think that carries some weight in that comparison?  Mahomes also had a defense that didn't force him to carry the team and press.  Allen had a disgruntled WR as his top target...Mahomes had his bestie in Kelce as his who is probably also the GOAT at TE.  

 

The 2 situations are not equal.  What if Mahomes and Allen swapped spots these past 2 years?  

 

You don't read enough social media or watch enough sports talk shows as it happens allllll the time. 

Show me. Should be easy. 
 

Im not talking about a tweet with 3 likes. 
 

If Mahomes and Allen swapped spots, Mahomes would be more successful. Because he’s the better QB.

[billsbackto81]

Physically Josh can do everything Mahomes can do.

 

Can Mahomes do everything Allen does?

 

Can he run like Josh? Can he truck players like Josh? Can he jump over players like Josh? 

 

Josh is a victim of poor coaching and defensive meltdowns at critical moments. 

 

I don't care what anyone says, Josh would have 3 rings by now if he had Reid and Spags.

 

Of course its JMHO....

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Allen had 2 OC's over that span, a first time OC who was fired 10 games into his 2nd season

Compare Allen’s numbers with Daboll. He was a pretty good OC that got an HC job.
 

Outside of that outlier 2021 season, it’s not all that different. 94.3 passer rating in 2020 playoffs. 
 

Like I have said in the past, the 2021 playoff run is really the only reason that anyone think Josh is on Mahomes level. And it was an awesome run, that Josh has never been able to replicate again.

Edited July 1 by FireChans