Close your eyes McDermott haters…he’s a top 10 HC

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

10 minutes ago, amprov56 said:

And what if our hire is not the best coach in football, the Bills get set back ten years. Hmmm, but we keep getting to the playoffs....

I thought you said no more hypotheticals.

 

Please make up your mind 

[amprov56]

3 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

What if ....  nah, forget it.  

 

  

 

Seriously though, what are the odds of an Allen-led team every doing much below 9-8?  I'd say pretty close to nil.  

 

What are the odds of someone that has a clue in offense, as opposed to McD who has absolutely none, and his choice of OCs having to operate under his grand ever-changing now complimentary football scheme, not being as good as that.  

 

Sometimes worrying about failure holds people back from succeeding.  Happens all the time in the business world.  

 

 

 

I did not, spell-checker did.  I bow my head in shame regardless.  

 

No Wings for me anytime soon, and when I'm allowed to have them again, only ranch for a year while I'm on probation.  

 

😞

 

 

Interesting post that has much credence to it about succeeding and the business world and very true. But many examples of trying something different that does not work, costs many jobs and money, goes both ways. I stand firm that the Bills are fine and a regime change is a coin flip between disaster and the current status quo! If it aint broke dont fix it, we aint broke! What if - just messing with you, hope you're still planning on migrating to the "Volunteer State!"

[amprov56]

4 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

I thought you said no more hypotheticals.

 

Please make up your mind 

Big difference between a "hypothetical" and using history to project possible outcomes in the "FUTURE."  My mind was made up long ago, history cannot be changed, the future can be projected and guided though no firm outcomes can be a slam dunk, hope this answers your concerns and confusion! You are probably a fairly new fan, coming of age in the 21st century, I have been living through the consequences of emotional fan demands for coaching changes since the early 1960's, trust me, you and many of the others do not know pain and hopelessness. 

[PBF81]

10 minutes ago, amprov56 said:

Interesting post that has much credence to it about succeeding and the business world and very true. But many examples of trying something different that does not work, costs many jobs and money, goes both ways. I stand firm that the Bills are fine and a regime change is a coin flip between disaster and the current status quo! If it aint broke dont fix it, we aint broke! What if - just messing with you, hope you're still planning on migrating to the "Volunteer State!"

 

Yeah, I know, you're always posting in good humor.  I realize that.  You know me.  LOL 

 

I'm hoping so, just not within the next 12.  

 

On the football side tho, ...  ..., allow me to ask, how many games per season on average do you think that we win because of Allen, simply because he's our QB?  

 

I've asked this of Gunner and others before but they won't answer the question.  If they disagree, then they can answer it.  LOL  

 

 

Edited June 30 by PBF81

[amprov56]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Yeah, I know, you're always posting in good humor.  I realize that.  You know me.  LOL 

 

I'm hoping so, just not within the next 12.  

 

On the football side tho, ...  ..., allow me to ask, how many games per season on average do you think that we win because of Allen, simply because he's our QB?  

 

I've asked this of Gunner and others before but they won't answer the question.  If they disagree, then they can answer it.  LOL  

 

 

I do and you know I appreciate the fact that you understand that I do post with a satirical intent, when you are ready for the move give me a heads up! The Bills beat the Cowboys with the ground game and defense, I think we can do more of the same. Once we start winning through running the ball the passing game becomes potent. At this point in time we win at least 8 games because of Josh, but I honestly dont care how we win, just win. I agree that the offense needs to have more threats and it will be interesting how 2024 shakes out. Let me know if I did not answer this adequately!

[HappyDays]

38 minutes ago, amprov56 said:

why would you want to take a chance when we have a playoff football team, great organization, continuity, and the whole damn country wants to watch the Bills on TV?

 

Yes the nation tunes in weekly to watch Sean McDermott clapping on the sidelines. That's the only reason in fact.

[amprov56]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yes the nation tunes in weekly to watch Sean McDermott clapping on the sidelines. That's the only reason in fact.

OK, this clapping thing is childish, ridiculous, and even funny to the adults! What is the HC of a football team suppose to do on the sidelines, hands in pockets, give players the finger coming off the field, take a nap? Been watching football since 1963 and every football coach - high school, college, and Pro claps on the sideline! If anyone seriously thinks clapping is an issue I consider it a disorder!

Edited June 30 by amprov56

[PBF81]

40 minutes ago, amprov56 said:

I do and you know I appreciate the fact that you understand that I do post with a satirical intent, when you are ready for the move give me a heads up! The Bills beat the Cowboys with the ground game and defense, I think we can do more of the same. Once we start winning through running the ball the passing game becomes potent. At this point in time we win at least 8 games because of Josh, but I honestly dont care how we win, just win. I agree that the offense needs to have more threats and it will be interesting how 2024 shakes out. Let me know if I did not answer this adequately!

 

Thanks!

 

I'm not sure about answering adequately, but the question is asked for purposes of ascertaining the reasons for the irrational fear and apprehension that Pegula and certainly many fans have about trying to improve.  

 

For years I held the notion that Belichick was only as good as he was because of Brady and that without Brady he wouldn't have had the rep that he has much less the track record.  His performance in what now, 11 seasons, without Brady, paints him among the worst, not the best.  Horrific record sans Brady, only two playoff appearances, 1-2 in postseason play, etc.  

 

There's a reason why Charlie Weiss, Josh McDaniels, and Bill O'Brien never distinguished themselves in any significant way other than when they had Brady.  They were mostly bad otherwise.  

 

If it were really coaching with Brady, that wouldn't have been the case.  

 

IMO 8 games is high, but I would say that for sure we've owned Miami since Allen's been here because of him.  That's 2 games/season on average.  

 

I'll look at the rest in terms of whether we'd have won or lost with some of our drought era QBs over Allen.  

 

We'd have lost the KC game w/o him, the Philly game, the Tampa game, the Charger game to start.  That's 6 games right there that were Allen, nothing else.  So if McD had one of our drought era QBs, Taylor for example, he'd have been 6-11 last season.  

 

You really think that there's a risk that if we got an offensive expert as our HC that we'd be 6-11 or thereabouts?  It's not much different in other seasons.  Allen has carried this team.  

 

Furthermore, it's quite safe to say that McD would have few if any playoff wins under his belt w/o Allen who does everything come playoff time as none of McD's players show up with even a sniff of consistency.  The irony is that Gabe was probably the one that did to the greatest extent, which again, isn't very much, but that KC game alone ... 

 

We don't beat the Skylar Thompson Fins, we don't beat the Colts, and if we don't beat the Colts we don't play the Ravens;  It's highly questionable whether we beat the Steelers, none of the KC playoff games are even close, and the New England game is quite possibly close, with Mac Jones playing QB.  

 

So without Allen here, do we even make the playoffs much less win any of them?  For sure McD's playoff track record would be garbage.  

 

That's what we're afraid of trying to upgrade?  

 

Without Allen here I see some of our worst drought era records and few if any winning seasons, certainly no 10+ win seasons.  

 

 

Edited June 30 by PBF81

[HappyDays]

10 minutes ago, amprov56 said:

OK, this clapping thing is childish, ridiculous, and even funny to the adults! What is the HC of a football team suppose to do on the sidelines, hands in pockets, give players the finger coming off the field, take a nap? Been watching football since 1963 and every football coach - high school, college, and Pro claps on the sideline! If anyone seriously thinks clapping is an issue I consider it a disorder!

 

I don't care about that at all. I think it's funny that you believe the Bills are a popular and renowned team because of Sean McDermott.

[amprov56]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't care about that at all. I think it's funny that you believe the Bills are a popular and renowned team because of Sean McDermott.

Not what I posted, like it or not the Bills are an exciting team, that is a fact check TV ratings. I travel quite a bit and people like watching the Bills, you need to get out more! If you don't believe that that try dealing with reality and the teams continued play on national TV, get over it!

14 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Thanks!

 

I'm not sure about answering adequately, but the question is asked for purposes of ascertaining the reasons for the fear and apprehension that Pegula and certainly many fans have about trying to improve.  

 

For years I held the notion that Belichick was only as good as he was because of Brady and that without Brady he wouldn't have had the rep that he has much less the track record.  His performance in what now, 11 seasons, without Brady, paints him among the worst, not the best.  Horrific record sans Brady, only two playoff appearances, 1-2 in postseason play, etc.  

 

There's a reason why Charlie Weiss, Josh McDaniels, and Bill O'Brien never distinguished themselves in any significant way other than when they had Brady.  They were mostly bad otherwise.  

 

If it were really coaching with Brady, that wouldn't have been the case.  

 

IMO 8 games is high, but I would say that for sure we've owned Miami since Allen's been here because of him.  That's 2 games/season on average.  

 

I'll look at the rest in terms of whether we'd have won or lost with some of our drought era QBs over Allen.  

 

We'd have lost the KC game w/o him, the Philly game, the Tampa game, the Charger game to start.  That's 6 games right there that were Allen, nothing else.  So if McD had one of our drought era QBs, Taylor for example, he'd have been 6-11 last season.  

 

You really think that there's a risk that if we got an offensive expert as our HC that we'd be 6-11 or thereabouts?  It's not much different in other seasons.  Allen has carried this team.  

 

Furthermore, it's quite safe to say that McD would have few if any playoff wins under his belt w/o Allen who does everything come playoff time as none of McD's players show up with even a sniff of consistency.  The irony is that Gabe was probably the one that did to the greatest extent, which again, isn't very much, but that KC game alone ... 

 

We don't beat the Skylar Thompson Fins, we don't beat the Colts, and if we don't beat the Colts we don't play the Ravens;  It's highly questionable whether we beat the Steelers, none of the KC playoff games are even close, and the New England game is quite possibly close, with Mac Jones playing QB.  

 

So without Allen here, do we even make the playoffs much less win any of them?  For sure McD's playoff track record would be garbage.  

 

That's what we're afraid of trying to upgrade?  

 

Without Allen here I see some of our worst drought era records and few if any winning seasons, certainly no 10+ win seasons.  

 

 

Good post!

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't care about that at all. I think it's funny that you believe the Bills are a popular and renowned team because of Sean McDermott.

This is what I'm talking about, not a clue!

[Thrivefourfive]

On 6/27/2024 at 1:15 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

 

They did?

 

edit: oh, you meant right after Tomlin on this list? like #6.

 

 

I'd put him ahead of Ryans and Stefanski, although Ryans could leap frog him this year.

 

I'm 50/50 on McD. He's done well to turn the team around, but the sustained success has more to do with Josh than McD. And when the team needs to rely on a coaching move instead of a QB move, we usually drop the ball.

 

McD is the type of coach who can take a 4-12 team to the wild card, but is also the coach who would take a 14-2 team to the wild card.

 

Agreed he belongs on the list. But in order to take us all the way he needs to take a step forward with situational football, gameday management, team management (the FULL team, not just Defense), and having the team fired up and focused.

 

 

And he's done exactly that. Wonder what this list would look like if it was about potential. McD and Tomlin take hits. 

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Mahomes is the best QB in football. Reid is the best coach in football. And when the best QB and best Coach get together history says its really hard to beat them.

I completely agree. You add a HOF TE like Kelce and a defensive monster like Jones and it's almost unfair.  KC reminds me of the old Laker teams that could just turn on the switch once the playoffs started.

I guess the epitome of my frustration lies in our 10th ranked HC and his 5th-6th ranked Defense can't ever find that switch.  They just wilt and you can't blame injuries every year. We were healthy in 20 & 21. 

[NewEra]

31 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I completely agree. You add a HOF TE like Kelce and a defensive monster like Jones and it's almost unfair.  KC reminds me of the old Laker teams that could just turn on the switch once the playoffs started.

I guess the epitome of my frustration lies in our 10th ranked HC and his 5th-6th ranked Defense can't ever find that switch.  They just wilt and you can't blame injuries every year. We were healthy in 20 & 21. 

I agree with McDs playoff results-  poor.  Very poor.

 

i can’t overlook the fact that Jerry Hughes, Mario addison, Trent Murphy and rookie AJ were our pass rushers in 20.  Add Rousseau in 21 but he wasn’t a very effective pass rusher.  
 

Ed was our only legit DT those years and he was only slightly better than JAG.  Hard to win with no pass rush.  Money poorly spent by Beane along the DL really crippled McD those seasons  

[PBF81]

17 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I agree with McDs playoff results-  poor.  Very poor.

 

i can’t overlook the fact that Jerry Hughes, Mario addison, Trent Murphy and rookie AJ were our pass rushers in 20.  Add Rousseau in 21 but he wasn’t a very effective pass rusher.  
 

Ed was our only legit DT those years and he was only slightly better than JAG.  Hard to win with no pass rush.  Money poorly spent by Beane along the DL really crippled McD those seasons  

 

The anti-Beane v. the anti-McD types in a celebrity death match.  

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Mahomes is the best QB in football. Reid is the best coach in football. And when the best QB and best Coach get together history says its really hard to beat them.

 

The obvious difference between that arrangement and Allen/McD is that Reid compliments Mahomes on the offensive side, while McD does nothing significant for Allen and has to rely on people that aren't even remotely in the same class as Reid or even close.  

 

As stated, Reid sees the forest for the trees and ensures that Mahomes is in a position to get the most of out both himself, as well as for them together to get the most out of their entire offense and offensive roster.  

 

We're far from that.  In that regard we keep shooting from the hip hoping to get a bullseye.  

 

 

Edited July 1 by PBF81

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

The anti-Beane v. the anti-McD types in a celebrity death match.  

 

 

 

 

 

The obvious difference between that arrangement and Allen/McD is that Reid compliments Mahomes on the offensive side, while McD does nothing significant for Allen and has to rely on people that aren't even remotely in the same class as Reid or even close.  

 

As stated, Reid sees the forest for the trees and ensures that Mahomes is in a position to get the most of out both himself, as well as for them together to get the most out of their entire offense and offensive roster.  

 

We're far from that.  In that regard we keep shooting from the hip hoping to get a bullseye.  

 

 

Insinuating I’m anti which one?  I doubt anyone would associate me with being either of the above except for you in this thread.

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Insinuating I’m anti which one?  I doubt anyone would associate me with being either of the above except for you in this thread.

You are probably neither tbh

 

I am first to self report firmly anti McDermott... that said the argument du jour among the McD4Life crowd is how Beane's weak rosters have been to blame for our lack of playoff success which I find incredibly convenient

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You are probably neither tbh

 

I am first to self report firmly anti McDermott... that said the argument du jour among the McD4Life crowd is how Beane's weak rosters have been to blame for our lack of playoff success which I find incredibly convenient

You and my boy @mrags are who I think of first as Anti-McD.

 

I think McD is a good coach but has had some massive blunders.   I’m ok keeping him, but would’ve liked to dump him for Ben Johnson this offseason (but he’s the only coach i thought deserved a shot over McD).  We may need him to become a great coach in order to get over the hump.  And in that sense, I get why you want him gone 💯.  He may never get over the hump but I do think he’s improved over time and has show SOME ability to adapt.  I think he’s a safe play at HC but has some upside.  

 

I think Beane is a good GM and I thought the last 2 rosters were the best in the league-  then Von got hurt- Micah got hurt- Milano- Tre- daquan, Poyer- Benford- Bernard- Phillips- Rousseau all hurt.  Who knows the result if a few of those guys that missed the KC game had played.  

 

I don’t like the fact that he doesn’t invest more in the WR position and has invested so much at S, RBs and STs.  I love that he invests in DL.  He just hasn’t done a good job of acquiring the right DL.

this offseason reset was inevitable and the fact that Diggs didn’t want to be here really forced his hand. The salary cap is real and kicking more and more money down the line only limits joshs chances down the line. That’s why I’m ok with the reset now.  I don’t think we’re that much worse off than last season minus the whole WR1 thing.  Diggs’ disappearing act every year playoffs was softens the blow though.  

Edited July 1 by NewEra

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You and my boy @mrags are who I think of first as Anti-McD.

 

I think McD is a good coach but has had some massive blunders.   I’m ok keeping him, but would’ve liked to dump him for Ben Johnson this offseason (but he’s the only coach i thought deserved a shot over McD).  We may need him to become a great coach in order to get over the hump.  And in that sense, I get why you want him gone 💯.  He may never get over the hump but I do think he’s improved over time and has show SOME ability to adapt.  I think he’s a safe play at HC but has some upside.  

 

I think Beane is a good GM and I thought the last 2 rosters were the best in the league-  then Von got hurt- Micah got hurt- Milano- Tre- daquan, Poyer- Benford- Bernard- Phillips- Rousseau all hurt.  Who knows the result if a few of those guys that missed the KC game had played.  

 

I don’t like the fact that he doesn’t invest more in the WR position and has invested so much at S, RBs and STs.  I love that he invests in DL.  He just hasn’t done a good job of acquiring the right DL.

this offseason reset was inevitable and the fact that Diggs didn’t want to be here really forced his hand. The salary cap is real and kicking more and more money down the line only limits joshs chances down the line. That’s why I’m ok with the reset now.  I don’t think we’re that much worse off than last season minus the whole WR1 thing.  Diggs’ disappearing act every year playoffs was softens the blow though.  

Safe is exactly how I'd describe the situation wrt McDermott we currently occupy

 

We have a safe coach and a GM who obliges w safe drafts 

 

Hence we have a safe change of being a very good team pretty much year in year out 

 

I just think that's not the best approach w a QB like Allen at the height of his powers. I think safe caps our ceiling

[Einstein's Dog]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I see that line of thinking but I think we have a darn good Head Coach and trying to find a better one than Reid is the proverbial needle in a haystack. So I think the preferable route is to let the two of them keep swinging and hope one of those KC games that breaks out way in the key play or two happens in January not October.

But what about style?  You've mentioned prior about the lack of WR investment and development.  And it looks like for the upcoming season the regime has hit a new low.  This regime of Beane/McD/Brady look to have jointly determined the emphasis on this team to be the conservative, YAC, run, complementary offense.

 

While we wouldn't know if Ben Johnson could beat KC, we do have a good idea he would be supplying Josh with much better WR weapons than we currently have.  Look at what the OC turned HC B Callahan has done in Tenn, got C Ridley + Boyd to go with DHop + Burks.

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Safe is exactly how I'd describe the situation wrt McDermott we currently occupy

 

We have a safe coach and a GM who obliges w safe drafts 

 

Hence we have a safe change of being a very good team pretty much year in year out 

 

I just think that's not the best approach w a QB like Allen at the height of his powers. I think safe caps our ceiling

I hear ya-  I think safe gets us to the playoffs every season and half the battle in the afc nowadays.  Tough conference that has to eventually go through KC.  Compared to the rest of the NFL, McD has done a great job against Mahomes and reid— minus the playoffs of course, where he’s been injured and abysmal
 

Then again- I’m likely to be on the Ben Johnson hype train again next year if we don’t win the SB.    My biggest fear of firing McD is that it’ll likely mean the end of Beane too.  Replacing a good HC and a good GM could result in disaster and Pegulas track record in those areas have been horrid minus McB.