amprov56 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 20 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Because they were doing it without a franchise QB. Matt Cassell and Alex Smith were nowhere near the tier of Josh Allen. Okay, whatever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 (edited) Once again this discussion becomes less about McDermott and more about tearing down other coaches to ostensibly raise up McDermott. That's a losing argument. It has exactly zero relevance to McDermott's own success and failure. Allen is the only QB that consistently plays at or above Mahomes' level in their matchups, most notably he has done it twice in the playoffs. Only two other times I have seen a QB play at Mahomes' level in a playoff matchup - Burrow in the 2022 AFCCG and Brady in the Super Bowl. Fill in the blanks. If Burrow had played as well as playoff Josh Allen in the 2023 AFCCG, the Bengals would have gone to the Super Bowl last year. Ditto for Lamar Jackson and the Ravens this year. The 49ers would have won two Super Bowls by now if Garappalo and Purdy played at even an above average level in their games, let alone at Allen's level. Other teams are losing to the Chiefs in the playoffs because their QBs aren't quite good enough. We're losing because our coaches aren't quite good enough. That's the difference. If you're not factoring Josh Allen into your analysis, it's a bad argument. If you're pointing to the failings of other coaches, it's a bad argument. McDermott and his coaching staff have not been good enough to take an elite QB who raises his play in the playoffs past the divisional round more than once in five attempts. That one time they got semi-close it was a blowout loss. That's the simple reality and nothing that anybody points to can hand wave it away. Edited June 28 by HappyDays 2 1 2 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amprov56 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 33 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Because they were doing it without a franchise QB. Matt Cassell and Alex Smith were nowhere near the tier of Josh Allen. Fire everybody! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amprov56 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 40 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Because they were doing it without a franchise QB. Matt Cassell and Alex Smith were nowhere near the tier of Josh Allen. Give you credit on one thing, this is better than your Beane gets fired after 2024 draft post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 28 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Once again this discussion becomes less about McDermott and more about tearing down other coaches to ostensibly raise up McDermott. That's a losing argument. It has exactly zero relevance to McDermott's own success and failure Lmao that’s because you bozos like to prop up frauds who can’t get out of the NFC with a HoF QB. It’s telling that y’all like to pivot away from arguing bums like LaFleur and McDaniel are better than McDermott once they are challenged. Then you call them “bad arguments” as if anyone defending McDermott said “LOOK AT LAFLEUR” first. Throw this awful diatribe in the trash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 41 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Once again this discussion becomes less about McDermott and more about tearing down other coaches to ostensibly raise up McDermott. That's a losing argument. It has exactly zero relevance to McDermott's own success and failure. Allen is the only QB that consistently plays at or above Mahomes' level in their matchups, most notably he has done it twice in the playoffs. Only two other times I have seen a QB play at Mahomes' level in a playoff matchup - Burrow in the 2022 AFCCG and Brady in the Super Bowl. Fill in the blanks. If Burrow had played as well as playoff Josh Allen in the 2023 AFCCG, the Bengals would have gone to the Super Bowl last year. Ditto for Lamar Jackson and the Ravens this year. The 49ers would have won two Super Bowls by now if Garappalo and Purdy played at even an above average level in their games, let alone at Allen's level. Other teams are losing to the Chiefs in the playoffs because their QBs aren't quite good enough. We're losing because our coaches aren't quite good enough. That's the difference. If you're not factoring Josh Allen into your analysis, it's a bad argument. If you're pointing to the failings of other coaches, it's a bad argument. McDermott and his coaching staff have not been good enough to take an elite QB who raises his play in the playoffs past the divisional round more than once in five attempts. That one time they got semi-close it was a blowout loss. That's the simple reality and nothing that anybody points to can hand wave it away. *****in' A, Bubba!!! (Just saw The Right Stuff again) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 30 minutes ago, FireChans said: It’s telling that y’all like to pivot away from arguing bums like LaFleur and McDaniel are better than McDermott once they are challenged. My instinct is that McDaniel is a great offensive mind but not a very good head coach, and that LaFleur is quite a good head coach. I'm not going to defend those opinions to my grave though because I don't pay close enough attention to those teams (especially the Packers) to know exactly why they have failed. I pay close attention to the Bills. I have seen firsthand where McDermott has failed and how his coaching errors have specifically and directly led to lower seeds and playoff losses despite having the benefit of objectively outstanding QB play. What other teams and coaches have done isn't relevant to that argument at all. You know that thing you always say where if you have numerous threads about if a player is good or not, it probably means they aren't? I feel the same about McDermott. At a certain point you have to accept that the debate exists because there are very good reasons to believe he is not a particularly great head coach. Every season that passes and ends in failure is just another data point in favor of that belief. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 42 minutes ago, FireChans said: Lmao that’s because you bozos like to prop up frauds who can’t get out of the NFC with a HoF QB. It’s telling that y’all like to pivot away from arguing bums like LaFleur and McDaniel are better than McDermott once they are challenged. Then you call them “bad arguments” as if anyone defending McDermott said “LOOK AT LAFLEUR” first. Throw this awful diatribe in the trash LaFleur w Allen would have almost certainly accomplished more than McDermott about 75% of HCs in the league probably would have He's been gifted one of the most talented QBs of all time and the weakest version of the AFCE in recent memory. You know how many other HCs could have turned that into 4 divisional losses? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Just now, GoBills808 said: LaFleur w Allen would have almost certainly accomplished more than McDermott about 75% of HCs in the league probably would have He's been gifted one of the most talented QBs of all time and the weakest version of the AFCE in recent memory. You know how many other HCs could have turned that into 4 divisional losses? I love these posts. McDermott was here before he drafted Josh Allen!!!!! They have grown into one of the best franchises in the NFL with McDermott. He wasn’t gifted anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I love these posts. McDermott was here before he drafted Josh Allen!!!!! They have grown into one of the best franchises in the NFL with McDermott. He wasn’t gifted anything. I love these posts McDermott is a sub .500 coach without Allen The Bills have grown into one of the best franchises in the NFL with Josh Allen. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfod Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 (edited) If you don't think getting to the playoffs every year has the potential for a SB run, then Im not going to try and change a mind. You clearly not living in a rational space. You remember the 13 seconds, I remember the team before McDermott and Rex Ryan. You remember Josh Allen I remember backing into the playoffs with Tyrod Taylor before we drafted Allen. McDermott should be your hero. He granted the wishes of a fanbase stuck in a playoff drought. So many praying on breaking the drought and now your spoiled. You turn your back on the man who got us out of the mud. You would rather fire this man than have faith he can get it done because it has to be in your desinated time frame. You would rather show loyalty to what you imagine, than what you have been blessed with in front of your face. Show some respect when you ask the man to who brought water in a drought to break the curse of 4 SB losses and grant your final wish. Edited June 28 by Lfod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: They have grown into one of the best franchises in the NFL with McDermott. He wasn’t gifted anything. Actually he was gifted an owner willing to spend as much or more than any owner in the league. As a franchise our cash to cap philosophy ended right before Pegula took over and Doug Marrone immediately parlayed that into a 9-7 season with Kyle Orton and EJ Manuel as his QBs. McDermott also turned in a 9-7 season, but because it happened to result in a playoff berth now until the end of time his defenders get to say that he's the one that ended the playoff drought. But for the record his flagship accomplishment without an elite QB is equivalent to what Doug Marrone accomplished without an elite QB. In fact Marrone took Blake Bortles to an AFCCG. So what reason is there to think the team's accomplishments with Allen wouldn't be the same under Doug Marrone, to use an example of a coach that everyone agrees is a failure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 The arguments are pointless. I respect McDermott for building the structure. He put top defensive units on the field and put together a coaching staff that allowed Allen to develop. That is a difficult job. He was in charge of that. I’m not going to argue against the fact that a lot of coaches could win today with Josh Allen. Josh Allen is an elite level QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 54 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I'm not going to defend those opinions to my grave though because I don't pay close enough attention to those teams (especially the Packers) to know exactly why they have failed. I pay close attention to the Bills. This is the same kind of logic that has folks thinking the Bills WR group is gonna be sneaky excellent. Ignorance of the rest of the league is not an excuse for bad football opinions. 53 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: LaFleur w Allen would have almost certainly accomplished more than McDermott about 75% of HCs in the league probably would have He's been gifted one of the most talented QBs of all time and the weakest version of the AFCE in recent memory. You know how many other HCs could have turned that into 4 divisional losses? LaFleur was gifted two MVP seasons from Rodgers and had an NFC Championshop blowout loss where Jimmy G threw 8 passes, and then went to the divisional round off a bye and scored 10 points in a loss. Oh, he also kicked a FG with 2 minutes left down 8 on the opponents 8 yard line in the playoffs. Assuredly lost them the game with one of the worst coaching decisions in history. ”would have almost certainly accomplished more than McDermott” gtfoh. You don’t know Matt LaFleur at all bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 4 minutes ago, FireChans said: This is the same kind of logic that has folks thinking the Bills WR group is gonna be sneaky excellent. Ignorance of the rest of the league is not an excuse for bad football opinions. LaFleur was gifted two MVP seasons from Rodgers and had an NFC Championshop blowout loss where Jimmy G threw 8 passes, and then went to the divisional round off a bye and scored 10 points in a loss. Oh, he also kicked a FG with 2 minutes left down 8 on the opponents 8 yard line in the playoffs. Assuredly lost them the game with one of the worst coaching decisions in history. ”would have almost certainly accomplished more than McDermott” gtfoh. You don’t know Matt LaFleur at all bro. Tbh I think Rex Ryan would have taken Allen further in the playoffs than McDermott. That's how little I think of the job McDermott's done thus far I get that you think he's great. We are too far apart to have a productive discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 (edited) 7 minutes ago, FireChans said: Ignorance of the rest of the league is not an excuse for bad football opinions. Okay if you're less ignorant than me of the hyper specific game planning failures or in-game coaching mistakes of Matt LaFleur, give me some examples. Edited June 28 by HappyDays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Just now, GoBills808 said: Tbh I think Rex Ryan would have taken Allen further in the playoffs than McDermott. That's how little I think of the job McDermott's done thus far I get that you think he's great. We are too far apart to have a productive discussion. I don’t think he’s great. I think you think the delta between McD and a league average coach is approaching zero or even negative. I think it’s positive. You have a far higher opinion of “insert random NFL coach” than is warranted. Imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Just now, FireChans said: I think you think the delta between McD and a league average coach is approaching zero or even negative. Correct 1 4 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 9 minutes ago, FireChans said: LaFleur was gifted two MVP seasons from Rodgers and had an NFC Championshop blowout loss where Jimmy G threw 8 passes, and then went to the divisional round off a bye and scored 10 points in a loss. Oh, he also kicked a FG with 2 minutes left down 8 on the opponents 8 yard line in the playoffs. Assuredly lost them the game with one of the worst coaching decisions in history. 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: Okay if you're less ignorant than me of the hyper specific game planning failures or in-game coaching mistakes of Matt LaFleur, give me some examples. Team led by HoF QB doesn’t show up in the AFCCG against a far inferior QB, gets mortified and blown out. Check. coming off a bye in the divisional round, team again doesn’t show up, offense scores 10 points and loses to that same inferior QB. Check. Kicks a FG down 8 from the opponents 8 yard line with 2 minutes left, playing against another HoF QB. A truly horrific and indefensible coaching decision. Check. 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Correct And hey, you’re entitled to that opinion. I just think you’re wrong. And if I have to annihilate 1000 LaFleur’s to prove it, I will! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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