Close your eyes McDermott haters…he’s a top 10 HC

[amprov56]

10 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

The implication of the quote of yours that I responded to is that Beane hasn't provided McD with enough to properly get it done. 

 

 

Anyway, just being light.  Don't get bent out of shape.  

 

You McD apologists are very emotional.  

 

 

 

At this point I can see McD going but not Beane.  

 

 

Hey watch it, "emotion" is part of my shtick!!!

[JP51]

On 6/27/2024 at 7:02 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s always our best defenders blowing it in these games also. Thats Milano bouncing off Watson. Hyde missing the open field tackle.

I was gonna say, right call... lack of execution. 

[PBF81]

12 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

My thoughts about Belichick are somewhat different than yours.

 

When he was with the Giants, he was a rock solid defensive coordinator. Brilliant and innovative.

 

Then he became the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. He got off to a slow start, but gradually improved each year. By year 4, the team had a winning record, and I sort of remember them going to the playoffs. He started off year 5 with a winning record as well. Then, news of the Browns moving to Baltimore became public. The team lost every game after that, except for their very last game in Cleveland. He was fired at the end of the year.

 

After spending more time as a defensive coordinator, he found his way to the New England Patriots. Early in his coaching career, he was building a defensively oriented team. The first Super Bowl that the Patriots won, the team had an elite defense, and a spunky offense with a 2nd year QB named Tom Brady. Brady's early career stats were reasonably good but not great. For his first three years as a starter, he never had more than 6.9 yards per pass attempt. If you want 6.9 yards per attempt, you could get that from a lot of QBs. In the middle of the Brady years, he went down with a season-ending injury. Belichick went 11-5 with Matt Cassell as his starting QB.

 

During the post-Brady era, things were bad for Belichick. 1) Poor personnel decisions, to where the roster was depleted of talent. 2) Cupboard bare at QB. Mac Jones isn't going to lead very many teams to Lombardi Trophies. 3) Old age. Belichick in his 70s might not have had the oomph he'd had as a younger man.

 

Aaron Rodgers has a QB rating of 103.6; compared to 97.2 for Tom Brady. Yards per attempt is 7.7 for Rodgers, 7.4 for Brady. TD / INT ratio is 4.5 for Rodgers, 3.0 for Brady. But . . . Tom Brady owns seven Super Bowl rings, just one for Aaron Rodgers. Brady has had better GMs than Rodgers, and better head coaches.

 

Again, we're getting into some complexities here and off on a tangent.  I'll address them, but consider, the point was how sans Belichick, one's reasons aside, did zero notable w/o Brady.  If that was the case with BB/Brady, and given the greater evidence of similar with McD/Allen, then to consider that it's similar for another defensive sided coach yet one without the pre-head-coach accolades and recognition on defense that BB had, really shouldn't be anything even approaching a reach.  In fact, it should be a strong consideration.  As well, I'm of the rooted opinion that McD tries to replicate BB.  

 

BB was a rock solid DC.  But consider too, when he got to New England, he took a defense that ranked top-10 the year prior and dropped it by over 10 places in the rankings.  His defensive rankings in NE were very good from 2003 - 2007, but then dipped slightly after that, and more than slightly in the early 'teen years.  

 

But consider his divisional opposition for 40% of his games.  Us, the Fins, and Jets were pure crap during Brady's entire tenure.  All three teams were a revolving door of coaches, QBs, without any team ever fielding an above-average QB during that stretch.  That'll do wonders for defensive rankings.  LOL  

 

But to your recollection of the '95 Browns, the Browns were 4-5 at the time that the move was announced, and even if they'd gone 4-3 in their last seven they've have failed to make the playoffs.  Also, BB's only playoff win came against Bledsoe's Pats and of course Bledsoe's playoff horrificness, his other two playoff games were blowout losses.  So let's not embellish any of that.  

 

Here's the thing, look at Testeverde's performance in Cleveland.  It was average at best.  In his three seasons there under Belichick he posted an 80.9 rating.  The following season(s) in Baltimore he doubled his production from '95, his best season under BB.  Over the next three seasons at the ages of 33-35 Testerverde played much better than he did in Cleveland under BB, and on two different teams, Baltimore for two seasons and the Jets.  His career faded after that, aging out.  

 

BB has never produced a decent QB, ever.  Brady was an accident and Brady did it on his own for the most part much like Allen has.  That's why none of his OC's ever did anything notable or above-average, usually well below average, anywhere else.  If you'll recall, BB was firmly behind Bledsoe much as McD was firmly behind Peterman.  It was Mo Lewis, damn him for eternity, LOL, that forced BB's hand.  Had Lewis' not put Bledsoe out for the season, Brady likely would have been yet another late-round QB drafted by the Pats that moved on unceremoniously after the 2022 season at the end of his initial 3-year contract.  

 

Here's where I want to spend some time, the bolded part above.  

 

Brady's early career stats were reasonably good but not great. For his first three years as a starter, he never had more than 6.9 yards per pass attempt. If you want 6.9 yards per attempt, you could get that from a lot of QBs. In the middle of the Brady years, he went down with a season-ending injury. Belichick went 11-5 with Matt Cassell as his starting QB.

 

The reason why BB likely kept Brady on after that point is because Brady was far more efficient than Bledsoe and didn't make the blundering errors that did.  His first season, despite what you said above, was better than Bledsoe's prior two in NE.  That too vs. a soph QB that had never started vs. a highly regarded QB that had been in the league for nearly 10 years.  Brady's 6.9 was better than Bledsoe's career average of 6.6 and considerably greater than his 6.2 2000 mark.  Brady's rating was also 10 points higher than Bledsoe's under BB in NE and nearly the same better than Bledsoe's career rating.  

 

So it was really a no-brainer, obviously not a planned thing.  That's where I look to see the extent to which coaching and management (GM) are better than their peers.  Do they recognize the talent and have a replacement plan, or do they keep the higher-paid more highly regarded players in the game w/o recognizing likely better talent in depth.  Relatedly, I remember watching Favre playing preseason in Atlanta and then Atlanta trading him to Green Bay.  I remember telling everyone at that time that they traded the wrong QB, they should have traded George.  So kind of like that.  

 

Belichick, like McD this past season, a part of my BB mimicking take, liked to be his own DC.  His undoing was his taking over for Pioli and being his own GM, which was all but an abject disaster, AHEM, particularly on the offensive side, which is why he had to go for trades and non-drafted players like Moss, Dillon, and Welker.  

 

Sure, he also drafted Gronk, but consider, was that because he thought that Gronk could be anywhere near as good as he was?  If that were the case, why did he draft McCourty in round 1 waiting until 15 picks later to grab Gronk as the second TE off the board?  Clearly he was not of that opinion.  McCourty was good, likely validating his 27th overall draft status, but not "Gronk good," nowhere close as few players are.  I mean let's be honest, knowing what we know now, that 2010 Draft done over again, Gronk is easily a top-3, likely the first, player taken. 

 

But the point is that by meddling to that extent and wanting full control over the entire enchilada, BB worked against himself. 

 

Lastly, yes, BB went 11-5 with Cassel as his QB.  That's pretty much BB's capstone argument in this context, to which I say, welcome to the rest of the division and siht QBs.  Despite that, his was probably the best of the divisional bunch that season. 

 

But let's add some perspective, shall we.  Miami also went 11-5, ... with Pennington at QB.  Pennington had as his top WR Ted Ginn Jr.  After that, Greg Camarillo and Davone Bess, JAGs.  BB/Cassel had Moss and Welker. 

 

So is that really impressive?   Teams win on/about 10 games every season based upon circumstances like easy schedules, as was the case here.  We did it in 2017 for which McD gets way too much credit for, and again in 2019.  The Pats and Fins split with each other, neither team beating a 10-win team otherwise.  Both teams took two from us with us fronting Edwards.   

 

BB's not going to shake this stigma nor should he.  At the same time, it's certainly reasonable to ask whether if for someone regarded by many as the GOAT coach this could have been the case, why not for other coaches.  (rhetorical)  Clearly there is no reason as to why not.  Given that McD has underachieved in many ways considering that, it's likely the case here.  

 

 

Edited July 1 by PBF81

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Belichick, like McD this past season, a part of my BB mimicking take, liked to be his own DC.  His undoing was his taking over for Pioli and being his own GM, which was all but an abject disaster, AHEM, particularly on the offensive side, which is why he had to go for trades and non-drafted players like Moss, Dillon, and Welker.  

 

Sure, he also drafted Gronk, but consider, was that because he thought that Gronk could be anywhere near as good as he was?  If that were the case, why did he draft McCourty in round 1 waiting until 15 picks later to grab Gronk as the second TE off the board?  Clearly he was not of that opinion.  McCourty was good, likely validating his 27th overall draft status, but not "Gronk good," nowhere close as few players are.  I mean let's be honest, knowing what we know now, that 2010 Draft done over again, Gronk is easily a top-3, likely the first, player taken. 

 

 

 

Their best spell of drafting was right after Pioli left. So I don't buy that. It was pretty horrible his last 10 years, but that 08-14 drafting period was the basis of the second NE dynasty - the likes of Mayo, Hightower, Vollmer, Solder, McCourty, Gronkowski, Collins, Chung, Jones, White, Edelman, Mason.... and UDFAs like Andrews and of course Malcolm Butler. That was the core of that second era of Superbowl wins. Their drafting after that was pretty shambolic and Brady could see that group ageing out and the lack of talent coming through on the roster and it was a factor, no doubt, in his decision to go to Tampa. On the McCourty vs Gronk question, sure he didn't know Gronk was going to be a top 3 all time tight end. Had he known that he would have taken him first.... but if you think you have a really good corner (and McCourty was drafted as a corner though played almost all his career at safety where he has had multiple all pro nods himself... not like he is any kind of bust) and a really good tight end positional value means you should always take the corner first. 

 

I do suspect there was a key departure from the New England front office at some point that removed a check / balance on Bill and he ended up following his own confirmation bias down the rabbit hole from the mid 2010s. That said I have heard others say he just always values smart, physical football players and as the game became more and more about explosion and speed he didn't adapt with the trend. Could be that too. But I don't buy it was Pioli. They drafted top 10 in the league at worst for the 6 years after his departure, despite always being at the end of the round. It's after that it fell apart.  

 

Edited July 1 by GunnerBill

[Buffalo_Stampede]

What if Sean McDermott is a double agent working for Andy Reid the whole time?

 

[PBF81]

33 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

There best spell of drafting was right after Pioli left. So I don't buy that. It was pretty horrible his last 10 years, but that 08-14 drafting period was the basis of the second NE dynasty - the likes of Mayo, Hightower, Vollmer, Solder, McCourty, Gronkowski, Collins, Chung, Jones, White, Edelman, Mason.... and UDFAs like Andrews and of course Malcolm Butler. That was the core of that second era of Superbowl wins. Their drafting after that was pretty shambolic and Brady could see that group ageing out and the lack of talent coming through on the roster and it was a factor, no doubt, in his decision to go to Tampa. On the McCourty vs Gronk question, sure he didn't know Gronk was going to be a top 3 all time tight end. Had he known that he would have taken him first.... but if you think you have a really good corner (and McCourty was drafted as a corner though played almost all his career at safety where he has had multiple all pro nods himself... not like he is any kind of bust) and a really good tight end positional value means you should always take the corner first. 

 

The core of that second era of Super Bowl wins was Brady and consistently ranked 1st thru 4th Scoring Offenses and Brady in peak form averaging 4,400 Yards, a compl.% of 64.7, 32 TDs to a mere 8 INTs, and a Rating of 100.6 during that 9-year stretch beginning after Pioli. 

 

BB's defenses ranked an average 8th in Scoring and 20th in Yardage during that same stretch.  That was with 2 games per season each against teams with QB the likes of  Tannehill, Cutler, Moore, Henne, Darnold, McCown, Smith, Fitzpatrick, Sanchez, Taylor, Orton, and Manuel.  Hardly daunting.  

 

I'm well versed in this, one of my best friends was a Pats & Belichick fan, both.  He and I used to argue over great lengths of time on it all.  LOL  

 

As to Brady going to Tampa, it's my understanding that BB drove that, not Brady.  BB thought that Brady was on the downside.  Bet he's regretting that now.  

 

As to Gronk v. McCourty, Gronk & Brady were unstoppable.  BB was generally good at drafting defensive players and OL-men.  

 

 

33 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I do suspect there was a key departure from the New England front office at some point that removed a check / balance on Bill and he ended up following his own confirmation bias down the rabbit hole from the mid 2010s. That said I have heard others say he just always values smart, physical football players and as the game became more and more about explosion and speed he didn't adapt with the trend. Could be that too. But I don't buy it was Pioli. They drafted top 10 in the league at worst for the 6 years after his departure, despite always being at the end of the round. It's after that it fell apart.  

 

Yeah, difficult to tell all the nits, but one thing's for certain, at some point BB began running the entire show.  That was obviously also a part of the rift between him and Kraft, who loved Brady too.  

 

At the end of the day BB was a coach that quite frankly, lucked into Brady for the aforementioned reasons above, was fortunate to have been in a division bereft of good QB play for the duration of the Brady era, and thereby artificially inflating his defensive aptitude, not to diminish that he was still great in that regard.  

 

Something rarely brought up by anyone is the difference in his playoff Defenses during that Pioli era vs. during the 10-year stretch after it, that second era of Super Bowl wins as you defined it.  

 

From '01 thru '08, BB's Ds averaged 18.2 PPG against.  From '09 thru '18 it averaged 22.4 PPG against.  

 

In that first stretch of 17 playoff games, his Ds held opponents to 27 or fewer all but twice, and to 21 or fewer 13 of 17, and to 17 or fewer in 10 of 17.  

 

In that second stretch of 23 playoff games, his Ds held opponents to 27 or fewer in 14 of 23 games;  to 21 or fewer in 11 of 23 games;  and to 17 or fewer in just 6 of those 23 games.  

 

That's significant.  

 

During that first stretch, their offense averaged 24.7 PPG in the playoffs.  

 

During that second stretch post-Pioli, their offense averaged 30.4 PPG in the playoffs.  

 

It was clearly the offense carrying them in that second Super Bowl era.  

 

 

[GerstAusGosheim]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

What if Sean McDermott is a double agent working for Andy Reid the whole time?

 

Traded Mahomes to Andy. Blew :13. It's all making sense now.

[PBF81]

29 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

What if Sean McDermott is a double agent working for Andy Reid the whole time?

 

Great question!  

 

 

 

 

[Rampant Buffalo]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Again, we're getting into some complexities here and off on a tangent.  I'll address them, but consider, the point was how sans Belichick, one's reasons aside, did zero notable w/o Brady.  If that was the case with BB/Brady, and given the greater evidence of similar with McD/Allen, then to consider that it's similar for another defensive sided coach yet one without the pre-head-coach accolades and recognition on defense that BB had, really shouldn't be anything even approaching a reach.  In fact, it should be a strong consideration.  As well, I'm of the rooted opinion that McD tries to replicate BB.  

 

BB was a rock solid DC.  But consider too, when he got to New England, he took a defense that ranked top-10 the year prior and dropped it by over 10 places in the rankings.  His defensive rankings in NE were very good from 2003 - 2007, but then dipped slightly after that, and more than slightly in the early 'teen years.  

 

But consider his divisional opposition for 40% of his games.  Us, the Fins, and Jets were pure crap during Brady's entire tenure.  All three teams were a revolving door of coaches, QBs, without any team ever fielding an above-average QB during that stretch.  That'll do wonders for defensive rankings.  LOL  

 

But to your recollection of the '95 Browns, the Browns were 4-5 at the time that the move was announced, and even if they'd gone 4-3 in their last seven they've have failed to make the playoffs.  Also, BB's only playoff win came against Bledsoe's Pats and of course Bledsoe's playoff horrificness, his other two playoff games were blowout losses.  So let's not embellish any of that.  

 

Here's the thing, look at Testeverde's performance in Cleveland.  It was average at best.  In his three seasons there under Belichick he posted an 80.9 rating.  The following season(s) in Baltimore he doubled his production from '95, his best season under BB.  Over the next three seasons at the ages of 33-35 Testerverde played much better than he did in Cleveland under BB, and on two different teams, Baltimore for two seasons and the Jets.  His career faded after that, aging out.  

 

BB has never produced a decent QB, ever.  Brady was an accident and Brady did it on his own for the most part much like Allen has.  That's why none of his OC's ever did anything notable or above-average, usually well below average, anywhere else.  If you'll recall, BB was firmly behind Bledsoe much as McD was firmly behind Peterman.  It was Mo Lewis, damn him for eternity, LOL, that forced BB's hand.  Had Lewis' not put Bledsoe out for the season, Brady likely would have been yet another late-round QB drafted by the Pats that moved on unceremoniously after the 2022 season at the end of his initial 3-year contract.  

 

Here's where I want to spend some time, the bolded part above.  

 

Brady's early career stats were reasonably good but not great. For his first three years as a starter, he never had more than 6.9 yards per pass attempt. If you want 6.9 yards per attempt, you could get that from a lot of QBs. In the middle of the Brady years, he went down with a season-ending injury. Belichick went 11-5 with Matt Cassell as his starting QB.

 

The reason why BB likely kept Brady on after that point is because Brady was far more efficient than Bledsoe and didn't make the blundering errors that did.  His first season, despite what you said above, was better than Bledsoe's prior two in NE.  That too vs. a soph QB that had never started vs. a highly regarded QB that had been in the league for nearly 10 years.  Brady's 6.9 was better than Bledsoe's career average of 6.6 and considerably greater than his 6.2 2000 mark.  Brady's rating was also 10 points higher than Bledsoe's under BB in NE and nearly the same better than Bledsoe's career rating.  

 

So it was really a no-brainer, obviously not a planned thing.  That's where I look to see the extent to which coaching and management (GM) are better than their peers.  Do they recognize the talent and have a replacement plan, or do they keep the higher-paid more highly regarded players in the game w/o recognizing likely better talent in depth.  

 

Belichick, like McD this past season, a part of my BB mimicking take, liked to be his own DC.  His undoing was his taking over for Pioli and being his own GM, which was all but an abject disaster, AHEM, particularly on the offensive side, which is why he had to go for trades and non-drafted players like Moss, Dillon, and Welker.  

 

Sure, he also drafted Gronk, but consider, was that because he thought that Gronk could be anywhere near as good as he was?  If that were the case, why did he draft McCourty in round 1 waiting until 15 picks later to grab Gronk as the second TE off the board?  Clearly he was not of that opinion.  McCourty was good, likely validating his 27th overall draft status, but not "Gronk good," nowhere close as few players are.  I mean let's be honest, knowing what we know now, that 2010 Draft done over again, Gronk is easily a top-3, likely the first, player taken. 

 

But the point is that by meddling to that extent and wanting full control over the entire enchilada, BB worked against himself. 

 

Lastly, yes, BB went 11-5 with Cassel as his QB.  That's pretty much BB's capstone argument in this context, to which I say, welcome to the rest of the division and siht QBs.  Despite that, his was probably the best of the divisional bunch that season. 

 

But let's add some perspective, shall we.  Miami also went 11-5, ... with Pennington at QB.  Pennington had as his top WR Ted Ginn Jr.  After that, Greg Camarillo and Davone Bess, JAGs.  BB/Cassel had Moss and Welker. 

 

So is that really impressive?   Teams win on/about 10 games every season based upon circumstances like easy schedules, as was the case here.  We did it in 2017 for which McD gets way too much credit for, and again in 2019.  The Pats and Fins split with each other, neither team beating a 10-win team otherwise.  Both teams took two from us with us fronting Edwards.   

 

BB's not going to shake this stigma nor should he.  At the same time, it's certainly reasonable to ask whether if for someone regarded by many as the GOAT coach this could have been the case, why not for other coaches.  (rhetorical)  Clearly there is no reason as to why not.  Given that McD has underachieved in many ways considering that, it's likely the case here.  

 

 

 

Great post. I will add the following, from Wikipedia:

 

"In Super Bowl XXXVI, Belichick's defense held the St. Louis Rams' offense, which had averaged 31 points during the season, to 17 points, and the Patriots won on a last second field goal by Adam Vinatieri."

 

Belichick's defense came up big in the postseason, against a team with an elite QB and an elite passing offense. While I do not believe Belichick was the greatest head coach ever, he was significantly better than Sean McDermott.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

The core of that second era of Super Bowl wins was Brady and consistently ranked 1st thru 4th Scoring Offenses and Brady in peak form averaging 4,400 Yards, a compl.% of 64.7, 32 TDs to a mere 8 INTs, and a Rating of 100.6 during that 9-year stretch beginning after Pioli. 

 

BB's defenses ranked an average 8th in Scoring and 20th in Yardage during that same stretch.  That was with 2 games per season each against teams with QB the likes of  Tannehill, Cutler, Moore, Henne, Darnold, McCown, Smith, Fitzpatrick, Sanchez, Taylor, Orton, and Manuel.  Hardly daunting.  

 

I'm well versed in this, one of my best friends was a Pats & Belichick fan, both.  He and I used to argue over great lengths of time on it all.  LOL  

 

As to Brady going to Tampa, it's my understanding that BB drove that, not Brady.  BB thought that Brady was on the downside.  Bet he's regretting that now.  

 

As to Gronk v. McCourty, Gronk & Brady were unstoppable.  BB was generally good at drafting defensive players and OL-men.  

 

 

 

Yeah, difficult to tell all the nits, but one thing's for certain, at some point BB began running the entire show.  That was obviously also a part of the rift between him and Kraft, who loved Brady too.  

 

At the end of the day BB was a coach that quite frankly, lucked into Brady for the aforementioned reasons above, was fortunate to have been in a division bereft of good QB play for the duration of the Brady era, and thereby artificially inflating his defensive aptitude, not to diminish that he was still great in that regard.  

 

Something rarely brought up by anyone is the difference in his playoff Defenses during that Pioli era vs. during the 10-year stretch after it, that second era of Super Bowl wins as you defined it.  

 

From '01 thru '08, BB's Ds averaged 18.2 PPG against.  From '09 thru '18 it averaged 22.4 PPG against.  

 

In that first stretch of 17 playoff games, his Ds held opponents to 27 or fewer all but twice, and to 21 or fewer 13 of 17, and to 17 or fewer in 10 of 17.  

 

In that second stretch of 23 playoff games, his Ds held opponents to 27 or fewer in 14 of 23 games;  to 21 or fewer in 11 of 23 games;  and to 17 or fewer in just 6 of those 23 games.  

 

That's significant.  

 

During that first stretch, their offense averaged 24.7 PPG in the playoffs.  

 

During that second stretch post-Pioli, their offense averaged 30.4 PPG in the playoffs.  

 

It was clearly the offense carrying them in that second Super Bowl era.  

 

 

 

But the core of that time was still drafted in that era. They had Brady playing at an elite level pretty much throughout. That period of drafting was really solid. Definitely top 10 in the league. It was post Pioli. Who knows what happened after, and the last 10 years their drafting was shambolic. And it showed on the field. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

54 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But the core of that time was still drafted in that era. They had Brady playing at an elite level pretty much throughout. That period of drafting was really solid. Definitely top 10 in the league. It was post Pioli. Who knows what happened after, and the last 10 years their drafting was shambolic. And it showed on the field. 

The 2018 NE Super Bowl roster was terrible. 

Edited July 1 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Rampant Buffalo]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

Point me to where I said I don’t blame the defense lol.

 

Okay. Below are some things you've written in this thread.

 

Quote

Just admit you and @HappyDays think we have the best QB in football and if we had a different coach, we’d be going for our threepeat while Mahomes would be battling Burrow for the title of second best QB.

 

That’s all this is.

 

Also

Quote

Broncos fans that couldn't admit Montana was better than Elway.

 

Colts fans that couldn't admit Brady was better than Peyton.

 

Bills fans that can't admit Mahomes is better than Allen.

 

Time is a flat circle.

 

The argument you've made in the quoted posts is that, after the inessential and trivial have been stripped away, the one factor determining the outcome of the Bills/Chiefs playoff games is that Mahomes is better than Allen. After you've assigned 100% of the blame for the playoff losses to Mahomes being better than Allen, you cannot then assign any blame to McDermott's postseason defensive collapses. 100% of the blame has already been assigned! There's 0% left over for you to assign to the defense. 0% left over for you to assign to the Bills' WRs, who had 160 yards of dropped passes in this most recent playoff loss.

[FireChans]

43 minutes ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

 

Okay. Below are some things you've written in this thread.

 

 

Also

 

The argument you've made in the quoted posts is that, after the inessential and trivial have been stripped away, the one factor determining the outcome of the Bills/Chiefs playoff games is that Mahomes is better than Allen. After you've assigned 100% of the blame for the playoff losses to Mahomes being better than Allen, you cannot then assign any blame to McDermott's postseason defensive collapses. 100% of the blame has already been assigned! There's 0% left over for you to assign to the defense. 0% left over for you to assign to the Bills' WRs, who had 160 yards of dropped passes in this most recent playoff loss.

Lol if that’s what you think those posts say, that I am attributing 100% of the blame to the QB for playoff losses, we are speaking different languages.

[first_and_ten]

I just can't forgive "13 seconds" 

[Nihilarian]

9 minutes ago, first_and_ten said:

I just can't forgive "13 seconds" 

I got over it.

 

Although, I mostly blame Leslie Frazier for his bend but don't break defense while going with an old-fashioned "prevent defense".  Frazier is gone from Buffalo.

 

We have seen that McD calling plays this past season as he was much more aggressive over the last DC. It was just very unfortunate that Buffalo lost its best LBer, CB, and DT for the season while some others were injured at key points. A missed FG, the #1 WR going invisible in the playoffs and so on.

 

The Buffalo Bills need some good luck.

 

Lucky Charms, curse removal, a witch doctor, lousy juju removal, salt over the shoulder? Use a weegee board to call up the spirits to find the butthole who put a curse on this team? 

[Einstein's Dog]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So I put the WR oversight squarely on Brandon Beane. The way he drafts is the way Carolina drafted when he was a senior exec in that front office. Loved defensive front 7, hates early picks on receivers. I don't believe that while he has control over the draft that will change whether the Head Coach was Sean McDermott, Ben Johnson or Bill Walsh.

 

If they come out determined to be a ground and pound team I will be the first one to say that they need to clear house. They never have since Josh has been here. They have always been near the top of the league in pass %. So while I understand that fear, especially with some of what happened at the end of last year I choose to believe that was needs must rather than a sign this regime wants to play that way because the rest of the evidence from 2019 on is to the contrary.

I don't see how you can hold only Beane culpable for the WR mess.  This is an organizational philosophy.  Beane/McD/Brady are all liable (and hopefully not Pegula).

 

McD has replaced the offensive influence of Dabol with OC's who are just grateful to have the job.  Dorsey kept Dabol's style but was slowly drained of the WR personnel to pull it off.  And it seems Brady has adopted a style McD likes of a YAC, complementary football.

 

If you don't like the style or where this looks like it is headed, it would seem the whole Beane/McD/Brady team would need to go.  

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

30 minutes ago, first_and_ten said:

I just can't forgive "13 seconds" 

I can’t forgive the last defensive play before 13 seconds. But that was on the players so we forgot.

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

 

Great post. I will add the following, from Wikipedia:

 

"In Super Bowl XXXVI, Belichick's defense held the St. Louis Rams' offense, which had averaged 31 points during the season, to 17 points, and the Patriots won on a last second field goal by Adam Vinatieri."

 

Belichick's defense came up big in the postseason, against a team with an elite QB and an elite passing offense. While I do not believe Belichick was the greatest head coach ever, he was significantly better than Sean McDermott.

 

Yeah, and all that I put forth was average, he did come up big and didn't fold late in games as you implied.  

 

Even when they Offense/Brady won the game it's difficult to recall any games in which his D folded late.  

 

 

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But the core of that time was still drafted in that era. They had Brady playing at an elite level pretty much throughout. That period of drafting was really solid. Definitely top 10 in the league. It was post Pioli. Who knows what happened after, and the last 10 years their drafting was shambolic. And it showed on the field. 

 

My avid diehard Pats fan friend would disagree.  

 

 

[Rampant Buffalo]

40 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Lol if that’s what you think those posts say, that I am attributing 100% of the blame to the QB for playoff losses, we are speaking different languages.

 

I have not seen you acknowledge that the Bills would have won playoff games against Mahomes, had McDermott's defense turned in an average performance. (Defined here as four defensive stops.) Nor have I seen you acknowledge that the Bills could well have won the most recent game, had their receivers caught the ball. (As opposed to having 160 yards of drops.)

 

I'm not a mind reader, and I don't know what's going through your head. A post made carelessly or in a hurry may not always reflect the complete picture of how the poster sees things. That being said, your arguments and contributions to this thread, at least as perceived by me, boil down to Mahomes > Allen, ergo Chiefs > Bills in playoff games. If your argument is stronger or more intellectually credible than that, I strongly encourage you to express it more clearly than you've done thus far. 

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I don't see how you can hold only Beane culpable for the WR mess.  This is an organizational philosophy.  Beane/McD/Brady are all liable (and hopefully not Pegula).

 

McD has replaced the offensive influence of Dabol with OC's who are just grateful to have the job.  Dorsey kept Dabol's style but was slowly drained of the WR personnel to pull it off.  And it seems Brady has adopted a style McD likes of a YAC, complementary football.

 

If you don't like the style or where this looks like it is headed, it would seem the whole Beane/McD/Brady team would need to go.  

 

 

If they go down the run the ball route - yes. I'd agree. Why do I blame Beane for the resource allocation so far? Because I look at what they did where he learned his trade and I listen to what HE himself says. He makes no apologies for prioritising the defensive front. That is how HE believes in building football teams. 

 

If the Bills try and be a "balanced" offense and run it more I will be for a house clearing. You can bank on it. So far that is not what they have done beyond a limited spell at the end of last year where after Allen Cook was almost all they had. If they want to become a run heavy team this year I will be wanting them all out. I guarantee you that.

24 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

My avid diehard Pats fan friend would disagree.  

 

 

Great. He'd be wrong. They drafted better immediately after Pioli than before him. 

 

It went horribly wrong about 10 years ago. Not sure why. Don't claim to be close enough to know. But that way post dated Pioli's departure.