Close your eyes McDermott haters…he’s a top 10 HC

[Gregg]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Here’s a question. Have the Bills ever lost to a worse team in the playoffs under McDermott?

 

Another question would be have the Bills ever beaten a better team in the playoffs? 
 

I think the answer is no to both. Probably why there so much debate with McDermott.

 

I agree with "NO" to both questions. Although their playoff win over Miami when they had Skylar Thompson at QB almost turned out to be a disaster. 

Edited June 28 by Gregg

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

I agree with "NO" to both questions. Although their playoff win over Miami when they had Skylar Thompson at QB almost turned out to be a disaster. 

Almost doesn’t count and anyone that watched that game knows it should’ve been a 30 point win but the players allowed Miami back in. That wasn’t much about coaching. 

[Gregg]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Almost doesn’t count and anyone that watched that game knows it should’ve been a 30 point win but the players allowed Miami back in. That wasn’t much about coaching. 

 

Agreed. The way that game started it looked like it was going to be a 1st round KO but sloppy play by the Bills allowed Miami to get back in it.

[Don Otreply]

3 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

I agree with "NO" to both questions. Although their playoff win over Miami when they had Skylar Thompson at QB almost turned out to be a disaster. 

I agree as well, but Almost only counts in horse shoes and nukes,, saying that is like QBs being dinged by pff when they didn’t get intercepted, but “ might “ have, games get messy, all these guys are pros, it comes down to.., did you win or did you lose…, in that case we won, so, 

[hondo in seattle]

11 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

A true evaluation goes beyond wins and losses and looks deeper at the coach's actual in-game decision making and situation football, just as @Freddie's Dead did. And almost 100% of the time, when you look at those situations, McD falls short or completely botches it.

 

Not only the challenge in that situation, but look at the end of the game situation and how that played out. McD directly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

 

DrD, I agree with many of the opinions you post, just not this one...  

 

If McD is such an inept botch artist, why does he win more games than any coach in the NFL not named Andy Reid?   

 

Why do players, according to the NFLPA poll, rate McD an "A" (tied for 4th in the NFL)?  

 

Why is both our O and D typically rated among the best in the league?

 

Why do bettors in Vegas give him the 7th best chance of winning Coach of the Year this season?  

 

Show me a statistic that says McD botches big calls nearly 100% of the time.  That doesn't sound like a fair and objective evaluation.  That sounds like hyberbole from a person who doesn't like McD.  

 

And you mention end of game situations where calls matter.   Maybe the calls matter at the end of the game because McD is a good coach who kept us in a game that another coach wouldn't have.  The offseason team building and preparations, the game week planning - all that stuff went into us earning the ability to be in close games.  

 

 

 

 

[NeverOutNick]

27 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

A true evaluation goes beyond wins and losses and looks deeper at the coach's actual in-game decision making and situation football, just as @Freddie's Dead did. And almost 100% of the time, when you look at those situations, McD falls short or completely botches it.

 

Not only the challenge in that situation, but look at the end of the game situation and how that played out. McD directly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

100%
 

He may be a good man and a great leader but his in game decision making is pitiful and costs us a few games each year, especially when it matters most. I can not overlook how he directly screws our chances at getting to the Super Bowl year in and year out come playoff time by his incompetence or lack of preparation and adjustment while Josh is putting the whole team on his back, playing out of his mind. I know under McD we will be steady and get our 10-12 wins each year but he’s not Lafleur or Andy Reid that are so gifted with offensive minds that he can elevate his teams play in big moments and make the proper adjustments when you have a less than ideal supporting cast to work with. Hes a fine coach but I can list 15 current coaches I’d rather have coaching Josh Allen now and come playoff time that I know wouldn’t botch things up like he has:

 

1. Andy Reid

2. Matt Lafleur 

3. Sean McVay 

4. Kyle Shanahan (don’t totally trust him in big moments but he’s a great offensive mind that would elevate Josh)

5. Dan Campbell 

6. Jim Harbaugh 

7. Kevin Stefanski

8. Mike McDaniel 

9. Kevin O’Connell 

10. Brian Daboll

11. Sean Payton (hate this guy but he’s a heck of an offensive mind and decisive in big games)

12. John Harbaugh (my first non offensive mind who is as steady as they come)

13. Shane Steichen (He’s the reason eagles were such an offensive juggernaut a couple years ago and the reason the colts gave teams fits last year with Minchew at QB)

14. Doug Pederson (see Sean Payton)

15. Mike Tomlin (basically McDermott without the stupid in game decisions)

 

honorable mentions:

 

Demeco Ryans and Zach Taylor are both better in game managers than McD 

 

any of the top 14 outside of John would elevate Josh’s game and we’d never have to worry about our offense drastically changing because our HC would be an offensive mind. 
 

I concede that this FO and ownership love and will go down in a blaze of glory with McD but I hate it because Josh is in my opinion, the best player in the NFL and what we get from McD isn’t enough to get Josh the title he deserves 

Edited June 28 by NeverOutNick

[AZSanta]

17 hours ago, DJB said:

 

According to these trustworthy guys 

Um he is only there because of his winning %. He would be a sub 500 win coach if his QB was Baker Mayfield. 

[JohnNord]

16 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

but but but...PFF!!

 

anyway, Tomlin can lose every playoff game for the rest of his life and he'll still be eating free lunch off of Big Ben's last SB win.  Steelers will never fire him so they are going nowhere

 

Harbaugh is 3-6 in the playoffs since Ravens won a SB 11 years ago.  He and Jackson are never winning one.  They will be regular season warriors.  

 

McVay won the SB with a dream team.  15-19 since with an aging Stafford, not the genius he was just 3 years ago...

 

Ryans gets top 10 after 1 season?

 

Stafanski has had one decent season in 3.  Brief Flacco magic makes him top 10?  lol

 

 

I’ll agree with you here.   If you are going to hold McDermott’s disappointing post season performances against him - you have to do the same for Tomlin and Harbaugh.   The fact that they won a SB over a decade ago shouldn’t factor into the current rankings.  
 

[FireChans]

7 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Serious question- what do you like so much about him? He strikes me as dull af, kind of thin skinned, panicky on the sidelines, and at this point a known gagger in the postseason.

I don’t need him to be my friend lol idc if he’s dull.

 

I like that he gets blood from a stone for a lot of end of roster guys. Dane, Levi, etc etc. I think he’s a good DB coach that has maximized every DB who has been brought in (except Elam who probably is just a bust).
 

I like that when the hit piece came out, the team was 6-6. It would’ve been easy to roll over and die. Part of that may have been players in the lockerroom but I give credit to coaching when a season turns around like that.

 

I like that as a defensive guy, he has clearly clearly improved his 4th down decision making and his aggressiveness in light of having an elite QB. 

 

I like that every season he’s been the coach in Buffalo, except for some dog days in 2018, the team has been worth watching.

 

I think in general they are one of the more prepared teams in the NFL. I like that. 
 

I think McD is a top 10 coach. I have said that for a while. He’s not the best and he’s not perfect. But he’s pretty good. 

 

Somewhere in the Packers boards, there’s a @GoPack808 who is out there saying, “LaFleur couldn’t beat Jimmy G with Rodgers twice, we have no hope of making a Super Bowl with this guy.” The grass is not always greener.

[Freddie's Dead]

32 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Freddie, this is super granular.   It's like walking up to a DaVinci painting and saying, "I don't know why people think this guy is a great artist.  Look at the brush struck two inches in from the bottom right corner.  It's poorly done!"   Sometimes you have to take a step back and look at the whole picture.  Even Andy Reid makes mistakes.  

 

The big picture view is this: McD is the second winningest coach in the NFL since 2020.  Apparently, 30 other coaches have more bad brush strokes.  

 

But look - even though a coach is paid to win, a true evaluation isn't quite as simple as looking at wins and losses.  You also have to consider roster strength, roster health, how you want to evaluate/weigh playoff performance, and maybe some other variables.  You and I will probably judge those things differently, whether or not we agree on the Denver challenge.   

 

For me, it's been the cumulative effect of Houston, 13 seconds, the divisional round losses, etc.  I think McD melts down in critical moments.  He makes too many in-game mistakes.  The Denver challenge was just the last straw for me.  I don't think we hoist the Lombardi with McD as head coach.  He's a clone of Marty Schottenheimer and Marvin Lewis.  I will be more than happy to be wrong, but I don't think I am.

[hondo in seattle]

18 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Here’s a question. Have the Bills ever lost to a worse team in the playoffs under McDermott?

 

Another question would be have the Bills ever beaten a better team in the playoffs? 
 

I think the answer is no to both. Probably why there so much debate with McDermott.

 

I agree with this.

 

I think there have been times in the regular season that McD overperformed.  For whatever reason, I can't say that about the postseason.  

 

[FireChans]

8 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

In the year of 13 seconds, the Steelers defense generated six defensive stops in their postseason game against Tyreek Hill and the Chiefs.

That was the year they got blown out 42-21, right?

[JohnNord]

2 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

100%
 

He may be a good man and a great leader but his in game decision making is pitiful and costs us a few games each year, especially when it matters most. I can not overlook how he directly screws our chances at getting to the Super Bowl year in and year out come playoff time by his incompetence or lack of preparation and adjustment while Josh is putting the whole team on his back, playing out of his mind. I know under McD we will be steady and get out 10-12 wins each year but he’s not Lafleur or Andy Reid that are so gifted with offensive minds that he can elevate his teams play in big moments and make the proper adjustments when you have a less than ideal supporting cast to work with. Hes a fine coach but I can list 15 current coaches I’d rather have coaching Josh Allen now and come playoff time that I know wouldn’t botch things up like he has:

 

1. Andy Reid

2. Matt Lafleur 

3. Sean McVay 

4. Kyle Shanahan (don’t totally trust him in big moments but he’s a great offensive mind that would elevate Josh)

5. Dan Campbell 

6. Jim Harbaugh 

7. Kevin Stefanski

8. Mike McDaniel 

9. Kevin O’Connell 

10. Brian Daboll

11. Sean Payton (hate this guy but he’s a heck of an offensive mind and decisive in big games)

12. John Harbaugh (my first non offensive mind who is is steady as they come)

13. Shane Steichen (He’s the reason eagles were such an offensive juggernaut a couple years ago and the reason the colts gave teams fits last year with Minchew at QB)

14. Doug Pederson (see Sean Payton)

15. Mike Tomlin (basically McDermott without the stupid in game decisions)

 

honorable mentions:

 

Demeco Ryans and Zach Taylor are both better in game managers than McD 

 

any of the top 14 outside of John would elevate Josh’s game and we’d never have to worry about our offense drastically changing because our HC would be an offensive mind. 
 

I concede that this FO and ownership love and will go down in a blaze of glory with McD but I hate it because Josh is in my opinion is the best player in the NFL and what we get from McD isn’t enough to get Josh the title he deserves 

Yeah so… this list is pure 🗑️.
 

Brian Daboll at #10?  He’s on the hot seat this season.

 

Doug Pederson?  The guy whose team went 2-7 down the stretch and failed to make the playoffs?  
 

 

Mike McDaniel at #8?  Great offensive mind but he’s struggled to counter when defenses catch up.  Also plenty of dolphins fans questioned his play calling down the stretch.  

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

I don’t need him to be my friend lol idc if he’s dull.

 

I like that he gets blood from a stone for a lot of end of roster guys. Dane, Levi, etc etc. I think he’s a good DB coach that has maximized every DB who has been brought in (except Elam who probably is just a bust).
 

I like that when the hit piece came out, the team was 6-6. It would’ve been easy to roll over and die. Part of that may have been players in the lockerroom but I give credit to coaching when a season turns around like that.

 

I like that as a defensive guy, he has clearly clearly improved his 4th down decision making and his aggressiveness in light of having an elite QB. 

 

I like that every season he’s been the coach in Buffalo, except for some dog days in 2018, the team has been worth watching.

 

I think in general they are one of the more prepared teams in the NFL. I like that. 
 

I think McD is a top 10 coach. I have said that for a while. He’s not the best and he’s not perfect. But he’s pretty good. 

 

Somewhere in the Packers boards, there’s a @GoPack808 who is out there saying, “LaFleur couldn’t beat Jimmy G with Rodgers twice, we have no hope of making a Super Bowl with this guy.” The grass is not always greener.

 

McDermott is a good coach. The Bills have done a lot of winning during his time. If the Bills ever decided to move on from him then he would be unemployed for about 5 seconds before getting another job as HC. The playoff disappointments led by 13 seconds and the Bengals game do raise the question. Can he win a championship?

[DrDawkinstein]

8 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

DrD, I agree with many of the opinions you post, just not this one...  

 

If McD is such an inept botch artist, why does he win more games than any coach in the NFL not named Andy Reid?  

 

Josh Allen and being a good Defensive Coordinator.

 

8 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

DrD, I agree with many of the opinions you post, just not this one...  

 

If McD is such an inept botch artist, why does he win more games than any coach in the NFL not named Andy Reid?   

 

Why do players, according to the NFLPA poll, rate McD an "A" (tied for 4th in the NFL)? 

 

He's a nice guy, I would never argue differently.

 

10 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

DrD, I agree with many of the opinions you post, just not this one...  

 

If McD is such an inept botch artist, why does he win more games than any coach in the NFL not named Andy Reid?   

 

Why do players, according to the NFLPA poll, rate McD an "A" (tied for 4th in the NFL)?  

 

Why is both our O and D typically rated among the best in the league?

 

 

Again, Josh Allen and being a good Defensive Coordinator.

 

11 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Why do bettors in Vegas give him the 7th best chance of winning Coach of the Year this season? 

 

This point means literally nothing.

 

11 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Show me a statistic that says McD botches big calls nearly 100% of the time.  That doesn't sound like a fair and objective evaluation.  That sounds like hyberbole from a person who doesn't like McD.  

 

 

You know there is no such stat tracked, and none of us with real lives and full time jobs is tracking that. But there are plenty of examples. And if you think I'm a McD hater, then you havent been reading my posts. He has plenty of strengths, but also some glaring weaknesses which have been consistently holding us back.

 

13 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

And you mention end of game situations where calls matter.   Maybe the calls matter at the end of the game because McD is a good coach who kept us in a game that another coach wouldn't have.  The offseason team building and preparations, the game week planning - all that stuff went into us earning the ability to be in close games.  

 

 

And I'd argue that McD's lack of killer conviction, and his inability to put teams away early, has allowed way too many lesser teams to hang around, and hang around until it's too close at the end. Too much taking his foot off the gas pedal in order to be "humble" and "safe" and "play not to lose".

 

I agree there is a good point regarding the Bills being in/losing close games that "the Bills dont ever get blown out, even when we do lose". And that is fair. But there are also too many games that stay close because we are a soft team. And that starts at McD.

[NeverOutNick]

5 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Yeah so… this list is pure 🗑️.
 

Brian Daboll at #10?  He’s on the hot seat this season.

 

Doug Pederson?  The guy whose team went 2-7 down the stretch and failed to make the playoffs?  
 

 

Mike McDaniel at #8?  Great offensive mind but he’s struggled to counter when defenses catch up.  Also plenty of dolphins fans questioned his play calling down the stretch.  

You can honestly say that Daboll, McDaniel and Pederson wouldn’t elevate Josh and the offensive to new heights? 
 

again it’s just my opinion but I’ve seen enough of what McD can’t do to know he’s not a top 10 coach. And all of the guys I listed would do better with the team we have. 

Edited June 28 by NeverOutNick

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Gregg said:

 

McDermott is a good coach. The Bills have done a lot of winning during his time. If the Bills ever decided to move on from him then he would be unemployed for about 5 seconds before getting another job as HC. The playoff disappointments led by 13 seconds and the Bengals game do raise the question. Can he win a championship?

I think questions should be raised after 4 years of having a true franchise guy. I think if he loses a playoff game to any team not named the Chiefs, I would get rid of him. I have said that.

Just now, NeverOutNick said:

You can honestly say that Daboll, McDaniel and Pederson wouldn’t elevate Josh and the offensive to new heights? 
 

again it’s just my opinion but I’ve seen enough of what McD can’t do to know he’s not a top 10 coach. And of the guys I listed would do better with the team we have. 

McDaniel gets his lunch money taken by McDermott just about everytime they play lol

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I think questions should be raised after 4 years of having a true franchise guy. I think if he loses a playoff game to any team not named the Chiefs, I would get rid of him. I have said that.

 

That is a fair point. The Eagles did eventually move on from Reid. He had a better run in Philly than Sean has had here. Sometimes a new voice is needed to take the next step.

Edited June 28 by Gregg

[JohnNord]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

I think questions should be raised after 4 years of having a true franchise guy. I think if he loses a playoff game to any team not named the Chiefs, I would get rid of him. I have said that.

McDaniel gets his lunch money taken by McDermott just about everytime they play lol

Not just McDermott, though he did write the blueprint how to slow down MIA offense last season.  It seems that McDaniel’s offense get off to a hot start, struggles to be some of the higher-level teams, and fall apart down the stretch.  
 

I can see where he ranks highly as a play caller but as a HC I think there’s a lot to question 

[hondo in seattle]

2 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

For me, it's been the cumulative effect of Houston, 13 seconds, the divisional round losses, etc.  I think McD melts down in critical moments.  He makes too many in-game mistakes.  The Denver challenge was just the last straw for me.  I don't think we hoist the Lombardi with McD as head coach.  He's a clone of Marty Schottenheimer and Marvin Lewis.  I will be more than happy to be wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

I've asked myself if McD is Marty Shottenheimer.  But Lewis - yikes - that's a harsh comparison!  Lewis is barely a career .500 coach who went 0-7 in the playoffs.  McD atleast wins roughly half of his playoff games.  

 

One thing I wonder about is if coaching in the playoffs is any different than coaching in the regular season.  Are there guys who coach better in the playoffs than in the regular season?  Are there guys who coach worse?  

 

The answer is probably "yes" to some degree but I have trouble seeing it.  I think most coaches have more or less the same practice field sessions during the playoffs, the same position group film reviews and meetings, the same game planning process, etc.  And I think McD is a good enough at this stuff that with Josh as his QB and some other healthy, talented players, he can win it all.  

 

I really want you to be wrong, too.  Only time will tell.