According to PFF Connor McGovern is good

[NewEra]

41 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

it’s not great protection that he has.  Pretty simple

Nice way to bow out and take the L

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

Nice way to bow out and take the L

 

tell us all another funny story how drafting Love left Rodgers "without any weapons"....

[NewEra]

33 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

tell us all another funny story how drafting Love left Rodgers "without any weapons"....

How many super bowls did they win with Aaron Rodgers after they drafted Love?  My contention all along was if they don’t win another with AR- it was a poor choice.  Win a SB Jordan Love. 
 

I’ve already chimed in and ate some crow on the Love pick. He’s much better than I ever thought he’d be.  I have no problem admitting when I’m wrong-  unlike a few select posters here. 

[MDH]

On 6/28/2024 at 5:09 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

yes--Defenses sense the weakness and exploit it.

 

The problem is you’re misidentifying the weakness and why they’re blitzing. They’re not doing it to exploit the OL, they’re doing it because the Bills lacked the ability to make them pay for the blitz - a WR group who can get behind the D. It’s also why the Bills’ didn’t throw deep as often as in the past. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 6/26/2024 at 2:23 PM, folz said:

In an interview a couple of weeks back, Beane was asked about how fans view certain players vs. how the team views those players. He said sometimes they are much more confident in the building about a player than the fans are. He used Spencer Brown and Terrell Bernard as examples from last year, and then used Connor moving to center as an example for this year. We may be nervous about the transition, but it seems that the team is not.

 

Also, I recently heard Connor say that center was his true position and he is excited about the move.

 

Who knows where he will rank by the end of the year, but I have a feeling it will work out. No question Morse was an excellent center, great leader, very good with his line calls, great rapport with Josh, etc. But he was never the most stout center up the middle either. McGovern is about 15 pounds heavier than Morse and six years younger. Hopefully, that will translate into a more secure pocket for Josh. Who knows, I guess we'll see. But I do expect Connor to hold off the rookie and man the center position this year.

 

McGovern is a much more natural run blocker. Torrence is going to be a beast as well going into his 2nd year. This line is extremely solid from top to bottom. Buffalo always lacked those slow methodical drives that eat the clock up and prevent the other team from having time to score at the end of games. That’s going to change this year 

[Billy Claude]

6 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

McGovern is a much more natural run blocker. Torrence is going to be a beast as well going into his 2nd year. This line is extremely solid from top to bottom. Buffalo always lacked those slow methodical drives that eat the clock up and prevent the other team from having time to score at the end of games. That’s going to change this year 

 

 

To me there is a good chance the Bills' offensive line will take a serious step back this coming season.  The reasons have been mentioned by others many times:

 

(1) The Bills are downgrading at left guard from McGovern to David Edwards.

 

(2) Folks like to belittle Morse's contributions but he was still a decent NFL starter and will most likely will be the starter at Jacksonville this season. There's a lot more to playing center than being bigger and stronger.  Throwing a guy in who only played center during his sophomore year in college is seriously rolling the dice. 

 

(3) Torrence's play declined at the end of last season. Either Torrence hitted the rookie wall or NFL defenses figured him out. Him and Kromer will need to adjust.

 

(4) A large part of oline's success least season was due to that it was injury free.  This is unlikely to happen again.  Without Bates, the depth is either extremly inexperienced  (van Demark, Anderson, and Pran-Granger have played in 2, 0, and 0 NFL games) or most likely washed up (Collins).

 

 

8 hours ago, MDH said:

The problem is you’re misidentifying the weakness and why they’re blitzing. They’re not doing it to exploit the OL, they’re doing it because the Bills lacked the ability to make them pay for the blitz - a WR group who can get behind the D. It’s also why the Bills’ didn’t throw deep as often as in the past. 

 

Agree but it is also up to the QB to recognize the blitz pre-snap and go to the hot read to discourage blitzing.  The Bills rarely do this.

 

[Rockinon]

On 6/26/2024 at 1:44 PM, Nephilim17 said:

I don't have any stats but would guess that Josh also hangs onto the football longer than many QBs.

He's improved dramatically compared to early in his career in that regard.

[Rockinon]

On 6/27/2024 at 4:12 PM, Billy Claude said:

 

If Allen took the hot read he wouldn't need to scramble so much and eventually there will be a lot less blitzing.

 

Is there correlation between a high blitz rate and quality of the oline?    If the oline was really bad, why bother blitzing at all -- you can get there without it.

 

You are right. This is a major contributing factor on why defenses blitz often. Allen has always struggled with screens and short yardage dump offs. Another contributing factor is WRs like Davis couldn't consistently catch a short yardage pass. Defenses never had a reason to do anything but have 2 high safeties and send an extra blitzer. They do this because they are simply not afraid of quick dump offs. And it is an area where Josh must improve.

 

We have a lot receivers capable of taking those quick hitters and some with run after the catch ability. Now it's just up to Josh to deliver. Brady was never blitzed because he got rid of the ball so quickly that defenders were needed in coverage, rather than blitzing. If Josh never masters short passes, he'll continue to be blitzed more than most QBs in the league.

 

The OL IMHO has been great and not really the reason why Josh has had to scramble often. Defenses with dominant DLines could crash down the middle, but most of Josh's scrambles were because of a blitzer coming off the edge. I'm hoping to see more consistency from the short pass game and for rushing attempts to be consistently successful. Do this, and the deep game will naturally become more dangerous. Take away a defense's ability to stress the offense and they will have to try something else.

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Rockinon said:

You are right. This is a major contributing factor on why defenses blitz often. Allen has always struggled with screens and short yardage dump offs. Another contributing factor is WRs like Davis couldn't consistently catch a short yardage pass. Defenses never had a reason to do anything but have 2 high safeties and send an extra blitzer. They do this because they are simply not afraid of quick dump offs. And it is an area where Josh must improve.

 

We have a lot receivers capable of taking those quick hitters and some with run after the catch ability. Now it's just up to Josh to deliver. Brady was never blitzed because he got rid of the ball so quickly that defenders were needed in coverage, rather than blitzing. If Josh never masters short passes, he'll continue to be blitzed more than most QBs in the league.

 

The OL IMHO has been great and not really the reason why Josh has had to scramble often. Defenses with dominant DLines could crash down the middle, but most of Josh's scrambles were because of a blitzer coming off the edge. I'm hoping to see more consistency from the short pass game and for rushing attempts to be consistently successful. Do this, and the deep game will naturally become more dangerous. Take away a defense's ability to stress the offense and they will have to try something else.

 

Were receiving option open quick enough/available on plays where Josh was blitzed?  Seems to me that that (ability, scheme) would dictate it more than anything.  Again was there a difference here after Brady took over?

Edited June 30 by Doc

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

5 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

 

To me there is a good chance the Bills' offensive line will take a serious step back this coming season.  The reasons have been mentioned by others many times:

 

(1) The Bills are downgrading at left guard from McGovern to David Edwards.

 

(2) Folks like to belittle Morse's contributions but he was still a decent NFL starter and will most likely will be the starter at Jacksonville this season. There's a lot more to playing center than being bigger and stronger.  Throwing a guy in who only played center during his sophomore year in college is seriously rolling the dice. 

 

(3) Torrence's play declined at the end of last season. Either Torrence hitted the rookie wall or NFL defenses figured him out. Him and Kromer will need to adjust.

 

(4) A large part of oline's success least season was due to that it was injury free.  This is unlikely to happen again.  Without Bates, the depth is either extremly inexperienced  (van Demark, Anderson, and Pran-Granger have played in 2, 0, and 0 NFL games) or most likely washed up (Collins).

 

 

 

Agree but it is also up to the QB to recognize the blitz pre-snap and go to the hot read to discourage blitzing.  The Bills rarely do this.

 

In regards to Torrence…going to a 17 game NFL schedule (along w/ 2 playoff games) is brutal. I’m sure his conditioning will be much better this year. He was the most impressive rookie to me and I think he will be the best of his class. It’s no coincidence the Bills had their first 1000+ yard rusher when he was drafted in IDK how many years? 
 

Morse was a heck of technician as a pass blocker plus a great leader. I think those are the only areas Buffalo might regress in. Josh is a big strong guy and I think he can maintain. Morse was getting up there in age and it’s time to move on. I think he will be missed for however long it takes the O-line to gel. Depth is an issue (I mean what team doesn’t deal w/ this problem?) but maybe one of these rookies turns out to be a steal. Beane always seems to find that diamond in the rough. Nobody knows how the injuries will unfold, this an issue every team deals with. 

Edited June 30 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[ColoradoBills]

6 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

 

To me there is a good chance the Bills' offensive line will take a serious step back this coming season.  The reasons have been mentioned by others many times:

 

(1) The Bills are downgrading at left guard from McGovern to David Edwards.

 

(2) Folks like to belittle Morse's contributions but he was still a decent NFL starter and will most likely will be the starter at Jacksonville this season. There's a lot more to playing center than being bigger and stronger.  Throwing a guy in who only played center during his sophomore year in college is seriously rolling the dice. 

 

(3) Torrence's play declined at the end of last season. Either Torrence hitted the rookie wall or NFL defenses figured him out. Him and Kromer will need to adjust.

 

(4) A large part of oline's success least season was due to that it was injury free.  This is unlikely to happen again.  Without Bates, the depth is either extremly inexperienced  (van Demark, Anderson, and Pran-Granger have played in 2, 0, and 0 NFL games) or most likely washed up (Collins).

 

 

 

Agree but it is also up to the QB to recognize the blitz pre-snap and go to the hot read to discourage blitzing.  The Bills rarely do this.

 

 

There is also a good chance that they play to the same level or even better than last year.

 

First, the returning 3 positions.  Dawkins, Torrence and Brown are all back and healthy.

Torrence and Brown will have another year of experience playing next to each other.  I don't believe that Torrence has been "figured out".

He was a rookie playing every down.  He's an above average RG and I only expect improvement in his 2nd year.

 

Spencer Brown's continued improvement is key to the OL IMO.  His improvement can let Knox line up on either side of the OL,

depending on the opponents and game situations.  Instead of Knox primarily helping out Brown, he can become a defensive problem

depending on where he does line-up.

 

The question is C/LG changes.  Morse was a good center, but it was time to move on from him.

I believe they were planning on McGovern to take over, but the availability of VPG in the draft may change the final line-up.

Morse was declining in the strength department so if VPG can take the center duties it could be a wash.

That leaves McGovern to stay at LG.  

 

If VPG is not in the equation it comes down to which ultimately ends up being better.  Morse/McGovern or McGovern/Edwards.

I don't think anyone can know that as of now.  Any initial regression from the C/LG combo will be made up with the other improvements.

 

Ultimately, the OL with Knox and the possibility of Davis being a 3rd down back with good pass blocking ability makes Josh Allen's 

protection possibly being the best he has ever had as a pro.  I for one will be following this closely during the summer.

 

[Sierra Foothills]

Not sure if La'el Collins has come up in this discussion but he's a guy who could make a positive impact on the O-line from a depth perspective.

 

This guy was an upper-echelon NFL player before his injury 2 years ago.

 

[Billy Claude]

5 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

In regards to Torrence…going to a 17 game NFL schedule (along w/ 2 playoff games) is brutal. I’m sure his conditioning will be much better this year. He was the most impressive rookie to me and I think he will be the best of his class. It’s no coincidence the Bills had their first 1000+ yard rusher when he was drafted in IDK how many years? 
 

Morse was a heck of technician as a pass blocker plus a great leader. I think those are the only areas Buffalo might regress in. Josh is a big strong guy and I think he can maintain. Morse was getting up there in age and it’s time to move on. I think he will be missed for however long it takes the O-line to gel. Depth is an issue (I mean what team doesn’t deal w/ this problem?) but maybe one of these rookies turns out to be a steal. Beane always seems to find that diamond in the rough. Nobody knows how the injuries will unfold, this an issue every team deals with. 

 

Hopefully it was just the rookie wall for Torrence and certainly you expect to him to get better with experience.   As for Morse, I think I value his leadership and experience than most fans on the board.

 

 

[Sierra Foothills]

12 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

Hopefully it was just the rookie wall for Torrence and certainly you expect to him to get better with experience.   As for Morse, I think I value his leadership and experience than most fans on the board.

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned and should be is that Torrence had an insanely low number of sacks and pressures allowed as well as penalties during his time at Florida.

 

Playing in the SEC he played at a very high and mistake-free level.

 

I have a hard time believing that he won't continue to ascend as an elite player.

 

 

[Augie]

19 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned and should be is that Torrence had an insanely low number of sacks and pressures allowed as well as penalties during his time at Florida.

 

Playing in the SEC he played at a very high and mistake-free level.

 

I have a hard time believing that he won't continue to ascend as an elite player.

 

 

 

You could be describing our future center as well. How soon? Hard to say, but it just feels like it will be his job eventually. 

 

 

*Yeah, I didn’t even want to try to spell his name. 😂 

[Thrivefourfive]

On 6/26/2024 at 8:48 AM, Mr. WEO said:

Bills 4th in QB hurries allowed, 8th in least pocket time, 5th in QB hits allowed, 8th in pressures allowed, 3rd in scrambles on passing plays.

 

 

Josh Allen hides many O-line sins.....

Allen takes a lot of hits.. he scrambles. Only concern here is that pocket time. But really, ball should be out. That’s the whole design of these plays. He’s just absolutely stellar when he leaves the pocket so these type of stats are indicative of Allen’s style of play, not necessarily a crime of OLine 

[Thrivefourfive]

6 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

There is also a good chance that they play to the same level or even better than last year.

 

First, the returning 3 positions.  Dawkins, Torrence and Brown are all back and healthy.

Torrence and Brown will have another year of experience playing next to each other.  I don't believe that Torrence has been "figured out".

He was a rookie playing every down.  He's an above average RG and I only expect improvement in his 2nd year.

 

Spencer Brown's continued improvement is key to the OL IMO.  His improvement can let Knox line up on either side of the OL,

depending on the opponents and game situations.  Instead of Knox primarily helping out Brown, he can become a defensive problem

depending on where he does line-up.

 

The question is C/LG changes.  Morse was a good center, but it was time to move on from him.

I believe they were planning on McGovern to take over, but the availability of VPG in the draft may change the final line-up.

Morse was declining in the strength department so if VPG can take the center duties it could be a wash.

That leaves McGovern to stay at LG.  

 

If VPG is not in the equation it comes down to which ultimately ends up being better.  Morse/McGovern or McGovern/Edwards.

I don't think anyone can know that as of now.  Any initial regression from the C/LG combo will be made up with the other improvements.

 

Ultimately, the OL with Knox and the possibility of Davis being a 3rd down back with good pass blocking ability makes Josh Allen's 

protection possibly being the best he has ever had as a pro.  I for one will be following this closely during the summer.

 

I think that’s the deal breaker for this line—VPG. Rookie centers do start in this league. There are just not many better situations for a rookie center to step into and start. Experienced franchise hands on your a$$. To his right, they should relate and be bffs right now. Dawkins isn’t shy. Brown isn’t shy. McGovern is good. We’ll see how camp goes, but Beane and Brady and McDermott should be spending extra time making VPG the starting center. What a thing it would be to draft starting rookie linemen in consecutive years. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Thrivefourfive said:

Allen takes a lot of hits.. he scrambles. Only concern here is that pocket time. But really, ball should be out. That’s the whole design of these plays. He’s just absolutely stellar when he leaves the pocket so these type of stats are indicative of Allen’s style of play, not necessarily a crime of OLine 

But then he wouldn’t be able to clown on the entire OL within a positive connor McGovern thread. 

[Rockinon]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Were receiving option open quick enough/available on plays where Josh was blitzed?  Seems to me that that (ability, scheme) would dictate it more than anything.  Again was there a difference here after Brady took over?

Was talking about Brady the QB. Not Brady the coach.

 

I think Brady the coach mixed things up better. More run plays. More presnap motion. Sometimes it isn't about statistics and just more about having a feel for the game. I think he sees the big picture better than his predecessor. Don't really have an opinion on if blitzes changed when Brady started calling plays.

Edited July 1 by Rockinon

[HOUSE]

I stopped reading when I saw PFF