JP51 Posted June 27 Posted June 27 21 hours ago, LeGOATski said: Would be nice to have some consistency on the line at all positions. Dawkins, McGovern, Torrence, Brown Just waiting to see who fills that last spot. I am with you on this... it would be nice if we could get a player currently on the roster to emerge and take it over. Quote
Mr. WEO Posted June 27 Posted June 27 18 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: If this is based on pure totals, the number of passing attempts factors into this and we are always in the top end. I also believe Allen holds the ball longer than most QB's because he likes to get the ball downfield.... There is always context in base stats. He doesn't throw downfield that often. his pocket time is amongst the shortest. 7 hours ago, FireChans said: Doesn’t that just prove the Packers OL is better? That's probably true. My point. Quote
Simon Posted June 27 Posted June 27 4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: McGovern makes the list but Dawkins doesn’t? It was only Guards 1 Quote
Royale with Cheese Posted June 27 Posted June 27 5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He doesn't throw downfield that often. his pocket time is amongst the shortest. That's probably true. My point. The biggest complaint about Allen is that he didn't take the short pass and always went downfield. Now I guess he doesn't go downfield often and throws the short passes too much? 1 Quote
BarleyNY Posted June 27 Posted June 27 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Simon said: It was only Guards Thanks. Missed that. It’s really the offseason if they’re doing a top 32 for a position where there’s 64 starters. Still, nice we had one make it. Some teams didn’t get any. Edited June 27 by BarleyNY Quote
NewEra Posted June 27 Posted June 27 26 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He doesn't throw downfield that often. his pocket time is amongst the shortest. That's probably true. My point. Your point in a thread about connor McGovern being rated as a top 32 OL: the packers OL is better. 😂 but you don’t dump on bills players- got it Quote
T master Posted June 27 Posted June 27 21 hours ago, billybrew1 said: McGovern was way better than Torrence all f***in’ year……. One of Beane’s best moves….ever. Seeing as he - Torrence was a rookie in his first year i'm thinking he McGovern with 5 years in the NFL probably should have been better than Torrence . If Torrence continues to do better than he did last season the O line will be a major strength for a long time Beane is making sure of it ... 1 Quote
Ethan in Cleveland Posted June 27 Posted June 27 Would love to see VanPran be good enough to start at center and leave our other 4 spots intact. Hope he gets a legit chance to run with the starters in TC. Quote
Utah John Posted June 27 Posted June 27 11 hours ago, NewEra said: Does anyone know anything about the blocking scheme Dallas used when McGovern played C there? I have no clue myself, but that can have a huge impact on an OLmen performance It can definitely have an impact. Some O linemen are better at different schemes. As I said I hope McGovern excels here with the scheme the Bills use. 1 Quote
Mr. WEO Posted June 27 Posted June 27 49 minutes ago, NewEra said: Your point in a thread about connor McGovern being rated as a top 32 OL: the packers OL is better. 😂 but you don’t dump on bills players- got it I was responding to another poster. It's ok to point out weaknesses. It's not a great O-line, Josh spends lots of time running away from a collapsing pocket. You'll be ok... 1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said: The biggest complaint about Allen is that he didn't take the short pass and always went downfield. Now I guess he doesn't go downfield often and throws the short passes too much? that was never an accurate complaint. in 2020, he had 572 attempts, only 10.8% went for more than 20 yards. Last year, 579 attempts, only 8.5% went for 20 or more yards---the 2nds lowest % in his career (only 2021 was lower). Quote
Billy Claude Posted June 27 Posted June 27 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: I was responding to another poster. It's ok to point out weaknesses. It's not a great O-line, Josh spends lots of time running away from a collapsing pocket. You'll be ok... that was never an accurate complaint. in 2020, he had 572 attempts, only 10.8% went for more than 20 yards. Last year, 579 attempts, only 8.5% went for 20 or more yards---the 2nds lowest % in his career (only 2021 was lower). There is other data to indicate that Allen's passes go longer than average. From Pro Football Reference Average air yards per pass attempt / average air yards per completion. The rank is among qualifiying QBs. 2023 8.7 (3rd)/ 6.1 (10th) 2022 9.2 (3rd)/ 7.5 (2nd) 2021 8.2 (8th)/ 6.5 (6th) 2020 8.5 (9th)/ 6.8 (7th) So if Allen did not throw more very long passes than the average QB, then he must have thrown a lot fewer dumpoffs and quick hitters than average. Those passes reduce a lot of stress off the oline. BTW what were the league averages on percentage of pass atempts over 20 yards? I know it has been going down. An interesting sidenote is that Allen seems to have increased his air yards per attempt the last two years and, at least in 2023, being quite a bit less successful on it. Was this due to Dorsey? Due to not having Cole Beasley as a legitimate bailout? Edited June 27 by Billy Claude Quote
Royale with Cheese Posted June 27 Posted June 27 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: I was responding to another poster. It's ok to point out weaknesses. It's not a great O-line, Josh spends lots of time running away from a collapsing pocket. You'll be ok... that was never an accurate complaint. in 2020, he had 572 attempts, only 10.8% went for more than 20 yards. Last year, 579 attempts, only 8.5% went for 20 or more yards---the 2nds lowest % in his career (only 2021 was lower). I found your link. https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php?year=2020 In 2020, he was 4th in attempts that went for 20 or more yards 10.8% Top 5 were Mahomes at 11.3%, Watson at 12.6%, Brady at 10.3% and Cousins at 11.2% So is the argument now that all QB's in 2020 were Captain Checkdowns? In 2020, Allen was the MOST BLITZED QB IN THE NFL by ALOT. He was blitzed 244 times and second place was Russell Wilson....205 times. In 2023, Allen was: - 5th in 10+ yard throws - 11th in 20+ yard throws - 9th in 30+ yard throws - 7th in 40 and 50+ yard throws. - 4th most blitzed QB In 2023, Allen was 2.3 pocket time and Patrick Mahomes was 2.6 pocket time...Allen was blitzed 182 times and Mahomes was 132 times. So if I do the math, that means Allen was blitzed 50 more times and blitzing usually means pressure gets there faster.... Do you think there's something there? Edited June 27 by Royale with Cheese 2 Quote
Ethan in Cleveland Posted June 27 Posted June 27 1 hour ago, T master said: Seeing as he - Torrence was a rookie in his first year i'm thinking he McGovern with 5 years in the NFL probably should have been better than Torrence . If Torrence continues to do better than he did last season the O line will be a major strength for a long time Beane is making sure of it ... Both things can be true. McGovern was better but Torrence was very good too. Torrence was a beast in the run game but there were stretches he really struggled in pass protection. But for a rookie he was excellent. Really believe Torrence has a shot at being All-Pro in the next year or two. He will have some name recognition being a rookie that played every snap last year and people will be looking at him to take the next step. 1 Quote
PrimeTime101 Posted June 27 Posted June 27 On 6/26/2024 at 9:48 AM, T master said: Maybe (But i doubt it) this can quite some of those that complained about Beane trading Teller to the Browns . Although it would have been nice to have him because he is a bad man but he was more of a unknown then than now but Beane has definitely focused on the O line since . And some his his picks have been pilfered by other teams so they must like his work too !! Lazy Comparison. McGovern was already looking good in Dallas but they had lineman stacked Teller never got really good till after he was traded. Quote
Royale with Cheese Posted June 27 Posted June 27 25 minutes ago, Billy Claude said: There is other data to indicate that Allen's passes go longer than average. From Pro Football Reference Average air yards per pass attempt / average air yards per completion. The rank is among qualifiying QBs. 2023 8.7 (3rd)/ 6.1 (10th) 2022 9.2 (3rd)/ 7.5 (2nd) 2021 8.2 (8th)/ 6.5 (6th) 2020 8.5 (9th)/ 6.8 (7th) So if Allen did not throw more very long passes than the average QB, then he must have thrown a lot fewer dumpoffs and quick hitters than average. Those passes reduce a lot of stress off the oline. BTW what were the league averages on percentage of pass atempts over 20 yards? I know it has been going down. An interesting sidenote is that Allen seems to have increased his air yards per attempt the last two years and, at least in 2023, being quite a bit less successful on it. Was this due to Dorsey? Due to not having Cole Beasley as a legitimate bailout? Allen is also heavily blitzed so he is going to be pressured more often because of it. Here's the thing that Weo doesn't understand. Lets say Allen gets pressured quickly from a blitz but that leaves a spot where can get out a scramble for a big gain. That's is not a negative on the offensive line. Quote
MJS Posted June 27 Posted June 27 20 hours ago, BillsDad51 said: Agree. I think Beane & Co. liked Teller but had no room for him on active roster. Rather than put him on practice squad, and have another team poach him, they opted for a 6th (?) Rounder from the Browns. 5th and 6th, but the Bills gave a 7th as well. 1 Quote
Slippery Rubber Mats Posted June 27 Posted June 27 On 6/26/2024 at 11:25 AM, JerseyBills said: not to brag but😏 Nice one, hopefully your WR thread works out the same way! Quote
MJS Posted June 27 Posted June 27 21 hours ago, Utah John said: McGovern thinks center is his natural position but the Cowboys tried him there and he was terrible. All the hoopla about him taking that job and holding it sounds great and I hope it's all accurate because that would solidify the line, but I would not be surprised if the rookie with too many names takes the center job by early November, and McGovern slides back to LG. Not really. McGovern sat out the 2019 season in Dallas and when he got on the field in 2020 the Cowboys were set at center so he played 14 games at right guard, then switched over to left guard in 2021 and 2022. With Dallas he started 29 games and he played center only in a pinch for about 100 snaps. He was never tried at center seriously, only moved there due to positional emergencies. The most important thing is the center/QB exchange, and that takes repetitive reps in practice to get right. He never had the proper preparation in Dallas for center. Quote
Mr. WEO Posted June 27 Posted June 27 1 hour ago, Billy Claude said: There is other data to indicate that Allen's passes go longer than average. From Pro Football Reference Average air yards per pass attempt / average air yards per completion. The rank is among qualifiying QBs. 2023 8.7 (3rd)/ 6.1 (10th) 2022 9.2 (3rd)/ 7.5 (2nd) 2021 8.2 (8th)/ 6.5 (6th) 2020 8.5 (9th)/ 6.8 (7th) So if Allen did not throw more very long passes than the average QB, then he must have thrown a lot fewer dumpoffs and quick hitters than average. Those passes reduce a lot of stress off the oline. BTW what were the league averages on percentage of pass atempts over 20 yards? I know it has been going down. An interesting sidenote is that Allen seems to have increased his air yards per attempt the last two years and, at least in 2023, being quite a bit less successful on it. Was this due to Dorsey? Due to not having Cole Beasley as a legitimate bailout? the point wasn't to compare him to other (no one throws a lot of passes over 20 yards). I was pointing out that he has actually decreased his long passes over the years--the opposite of what another poster was suggesting. 1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said: I found your link. https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php?year=2020 In 2020, he was 4th in attempts that went for 20 or more yards 10.8% Top 5 were Mahomes at 11.3%, Watson at 12.6%, Brady at 10.3% and Cousins at 11.2% So is the argument now that all QB's in 2020 were Captain Checkdowns? In 2020, Allen was the MOST BLITZED QB IN THE NFL by ALOT. He was blitzed 244 times and second place was Russell Wilson....205 times. In 2023, Allen was: - 5th in 10+ yard throws - 11th in 20+ yard throws - 9th in 30+ yard throws - 7th in 40 and 50+ yard throws. - 4th most blitzed QB In 2023, Allen was 2.3 pocket time and Patrick Mahomes was 2.6 pocket time...Allen was blitzed 182 times and Mahomes was 132 times. So if I do the math, that means Allen was blitzed 50 more times and blitzing usually means pressure gets there faster.... Do you think there's something there? yeah--opposing Defenses are feeling free to tee off on Josh Allen... Quote
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