Yardage Predictions for Bills Receivers in 2024

[ColoradoBills]

7 minutes ago, Billl said:

What’s the variety in Brady’s offense?  Josh had 48 rushing attempts (including kneel downs) in the 10 games under Dorsey.  He had  58 in the last 6 games under Brady and 20 more in the 2 playoff games.  It’s no revelation that running Josh more is a boost for the offense in the short term.  It’s just a matter of whether or not you want to expose him to the extra wear and tear that it entails.  I’m sure Dorsey’s offense would have looked better if he had run Josh twice as much, but he was constrained by the organizational philosophy that seemingly didn’t apply to Brady.

 

Good grief, how hard is it to realize that the Bills were, in essence, playing every game to end the season as "must wins".

Josh was going to do whatever it took to win those games.

 

Last season ending has no bearing on what kind of game plans Brady will be running this season.

[FireChans]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah c'mon @GunnerBill.   You protest too much.   You said that when Diggs fell off Dorsey's offense fell off.........Diggs was on pace for almost 1500 yards when Dorsey got fired.

 

I get it,  you want more motion and more trickery.   That's your definition of modern but those things aren't "new".  

 

What's new is having QB's in the NFL who can hurl a 30 yard out pass.

 

And teams that barely practice together anymore.

 

Modern and "more complicated" aren't necessarily synonymous.   

Let's just be frank.

 

Do you think the Bills offense was well-coached in Dorsey's tenure?

 

I had multiple views of receivers running into the same spots on their routes during the Dorsey era. Is that Dorsey or the players or the WR coach?

 

In Dorsey's full year, the Bills had the second most TO's in football. Their worst ranking in Josh Allen's career. Is that Dorsey or the players or the position coaches?

 

We can say it wasn't all Dorsey's fault because of the talent erosion, because McD made big mistakes too, because Josh got hurt.  But the crux of the matter is, "was Dorsey doing a good job?"  The answer, imo, is no, and with that this conversation can end lmao.

[RobbRiddick]

Samuel will lead the way imo

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Let's just be frank.

 

Do you think the Bills offense was well-coached in Dorsey's tenure?

 

I had multiple views of receivers running into the same spots on their routes during the Dorsey era. Is that Dorsey or the players or the WR coach?

 

In Dorsey's full year, the Bills had the second most TO's in football. Their worst ranking in Josh Allen's career. Is that Dorsey or the players or the position coaches?

 

We can say it wasn't all Dorsey's fault because of the talent erosion, because McD made big mistakes too, because Josh got hurt.  But the crux of the matter is, "was Dorsey doing a good job?"  The answer, imo, is no, and with that this conversation can end lmao.

You know that 2022 offense was elite right

 

2nd in PPG

2nd in ypg

2nd in points per drive

2nd in scoring drives

 

yes they turned the ball over too much but it didnt stop them from dominating

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

You know that 2022 offense was elite right

 

2nd in PPG

2nd in ypg

2nd in points per drive

2nd in scoring drives

 

yes they turned the ball over too much but it didnt stop them from dominating

Okay, so you think he did a good coaching job. Agree to disagree.

 

@BADOLBILZ probably won’t agree he did a good job but will also nitpick a take he doesn’t even disagree with.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Okay, so you think he did a good coaching job. Agree to disagree.

 

@BADOLBILZ probably won’t agree he did a good job but will also nitpick a take he doesn’t even disagree with.

😂😂ive been way higher on dorsey than like 95% of this board from the jump

 

yes i thought he did a good job

[FireChans]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

😂😂ive been way higher on dorsey than like 95% of this board from the jump

 

yes i thought he did a good job

Oh I know lmao. In your defense, his EPA/Starbucks order in Cleveland is looking elite by all accounts this off-season. 

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Oh I know lmao. In your defense, his EPA/Starbucks order in Cleveland is looking elite by all accounts this off-season. 

what are we even arguing about tho

 

the results speak for themselves. you literally cant say he didnt do a good job in 2022

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

what are we even arguing about tho

 

the results speak for themselves. you literally cant say he didnt do a good job in 2022

I think the floor for a Josh Allen offense with a couple of good to great targets is about top 5 tbh.

 

Lots of folks argued Daboll sucked/wasn't doing a good job and they were 3rd in points in 2021 and 2nd in points in 2020.

 

The results speak for themselves, eh?

[BillsVet]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

As for what happened next I think Brady did a reasonable job of finding a way to run a low risk offense with a spluttering passing game and move the ball. It was sustainable as a 6 or 7 game exercise to save a season I don't think is sustainable as a long term offense for the Bills if their goal, as it should be, is to be a championship football team. If they try and run that offense in 2024 I will be very critical of it. I have been totally against the "establish the run better" narrative for as long as we have had Josh Allen. Establish the pass. Run just enough and efficiently enough to keep the defense honest.

 

This is a further upstream issue than just the OC.  The blame game tends to go as high as coaching, but it's clear that off-season personnel decisions can hinder whomever the OC is.    

 

I'd like them to be more of a downfield passing team too, but they are now more run-focused primarily because they acquired the players to do it.  If it works throwing shorter and running more, great.  But, if they struggle at any point there's almost nowhere to go mid-season aside from back to the well and running Josh.  They are too limited by WR skill-sets and talent/inexperience which will impact what they can do throwing the ball. 

 

And those WR's aren'tdownfield types.  But that's the point and how they want to run this offense.      

[Alphadawg7]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Some of the crazy reverse logic people use here cracks me up.   @Alphadawg7 says they have "diversified" their weapons.  You can't make this sh!t up. 

 

I mean literally every coach, Beane, Allen, the receivers themselves, the TE's have all spoken about how diversified the weapons are this year.  But hey, you do you boo... 

 

Edited August 8 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

This is a further upstream issue than just the OC.  The blame game tends to go as high as coaching, but it's clear that off-season personnel decisions can hinder whomever the OC is.    

 

I'd like them to be more of a downfield passing team too, but they are now more run-focused primarily because they acquired the players to do it.  If it works throwing shorter and running more, great.  But, if they struggle at any point there's almost nowhere to go mid-season aside from back to the well and running Josh.  They are too limited by WR skill-sets and talent/inexperience which will impact what they can do throwing the ball. 

 

And those WR's aren'tdownfield types.  But that's the point and how they want to run this offense.      

 

I agree there is accountability upstream too. I have been on the "they are undervaluing wide receiver" since before it was cool. Indeed I was on the "I'm worried Brandon Beane will undervalue receiver" pretty much the moment he was hired. Because he came from an organisation with a history of doing it where they had some relative success (two Superbowl appearances in a 10/11 year span) despite it. 

[Alphadawg7]

14 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

😂😂Of course you're not seeing it

 

You believe Dorsey was fired for cause and that his top2 offense was 'predictable' and poorly designed

 

Dorsey was fired because he was averaging 19.8 ppg over 7 games that all should have been losses but managed to go 2-5 because Giants and Tampa Bay blew the final play of the game to win the game.  Those teams had a combined win % of .436, so to sit there and stick your head where the sun dont shine to ignore the REALITY of what 2023 was that led to his firing by googling some stats from 2022 is about as foolish of an anlaysis one can do.

 

People keep giving you all kinds of actual points that require watching the game, analyzing what is going on...all you do is google some stats and poof think everything is perfect.  You do not analyze off a stat sheet, that is a small part of the data.  And when you have an elite talent like Allen along with guys like Diggs, Cole, Knox, Kincaid, Davis, etc over the years, you are going to put up points and stats no matter who the OC is.  

 

But what happens when that OC gets figured out or a DC has a good counter is what matters.  And Dorsey sucked at adjusting.  Its already been suggested go listen to people who actually know football like Orlovsky, Warner, etc who did LOTS of breakdowns of both individual games and his tenure overall on all the things that were not working with Dorsey and stop googling some stats and thinking that answers all the questions.

 

14 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

 said in another thread this season's offense is going to be a wake up call for a lot of folks but from the looks of it i'm probably giving them too much credit😂😂

 

Ok...what are you even talking about, Offense has had a great camp.  But hey...since you can see the future and are taking a victory lap TODAY before games have been played about how the offense is gonna suck...what is going to be your stance if the offense comes out and looks great this year? 

 

You going to admit you were wrong about all the proclamations?  My guess from all your past history is no, you won't...to avoid admitting anything you said was wrong, you and some others in here are likely to just go to the same default and say it was "All Josh" before you ever acknowledge anything you said being wrong.  

 

Anyone making any concrete declarations of what this offense will or won't be today is playing a fools game.  Nobody knows for sure, but there is legit reasons for optimism despite your absolute refusal to admit that.

Edited August 8 by Alphadawg7

[FireChans]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree there is accountability upstream too. I have been on the "they are undervaluing wide receiver" since before it was cool. Indeed I was on the "I'm worried Brandon Beane will undervalue receiver" pretty much the moment he was hired. Because he came from an organisation with a history of doing it where they had some relative success (two Superbowl appearances in a 10/11 year span) despite it. 

It’s a compounding problem.

 

Dorsey’s numbers and offense would’ve probably looked even better if he had 2020 offensive talent at his disposable. It may have been even better than Daboll’s 2020.

 

But when you let receiving talent erode, then run an offense that relies predominantly on “beat your man” philosophies, you get what we got. 
 

We always mention that improving the weapons make Josh’s life easier. It also makes the OC’s life easier. Even great OC’s like Shanny can struggle when they don’t have Deebo or Trent Williams. 

Edited August 8 by FireChans

[Billl]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Good grief, how hard is it to realize that the Bills were, in essence, playing every game to end the season as "must wins".

Josh was going to do whatever it took to win those games.

 

Last season ending has no bearing on what kind of game plans Brady will be running this season.

It’s not hard to realize at all.  In fact, it was literally the point of my post.

[GoBills808]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Dorsey was fired because he was averaging 19.8 ppg over 7 games that all should have been losses but managed to go 2-5 because Giants and Tampa Bay blew the final play of the game to win the game.  Those teams had a combined win % of .436, so to sit there and stick your head where the sun dont shine to ignore the REALITY of what 2023 was that led to his firing but googling some stats from 2022 is about as foolish of an anlaysis one can do.

 

People keep giving you all kinds of actual points that require watching the game, analyzing what is going on...all you do is google some stats and poof think everything is perfect.  You do not analyze off a stat sheet, that is a small part of the data.  And when you have an elite talent like Allen along with guys like Diggs, Cole, Knox, Kincaid, Davis, etc over the years, you are going to put up points and stats no matter who the OC is.  

 

But what happens when that OC gets figured our or a DC has a good counter is what matters.  And Dorsey sucked at adjusting.  Its already been suggested go listen to people who actually know football like Orlovsky, Warner, etc who did LOTS of breakdowns of both individual games and his tenure overall on all the things that were not working with Dorsey and stop googling some stats and thinking that answers all the questions.

 

 

Ok...what are you even talking about, Offense has had a great camp.  But hey...since you can see the future and are taking a victory lap TODAY before games have been played about how the offense is gonna suck because you are more invested in that being right than hoping the Bills do well this year...what is going to be your stance if the offense comes out and looks great this year? 

 

You going to admit you were wrong about the weapons?  You gonna admit you were wrong about Brady?  My guess from all your past history is no, you won't...to avoid admitting anything you said was wrong, you and some others in here are likely to just go to the same default and say it was "All Josh" before you ever acknowledge anything you said being wrong.  

 

Anyone making any concrete declarations of what this offense will or won't be today is playing a fools game.  Nobody knows for sure, but there is legit reasons for optimism despite your absolute refusal to admit that.

lol what on earth are you talking about

 

YOU are the one who is consistently wrong and refuse to acknowledge it. you are probably more unapologetically wrong than almost anyone ive ever read on here. please dont make me bring up the diggs thread

 

i will have no problem saying i was wrong about Brady and the offense if they look great this year. unlike you i am capable of changing my opinion w out gaslighting

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

It was sustainable as a 6 or 7 game exercise to save a season I don't think is sustainable as a long term offense for the Bills if their goal, as it should be, is to be a championship football team. If they try and run that offense in 2024 I will be very critical of it.

 

They don't really have a choice, right? The personnel is going to dictate a low-risk low-reward style of offense. Explosive plays will have to come after the catch, not in air yards. We're going to attempt to resemble the 2023 Chiefs offense (which finished 9th in yards and 15th in points), but without a generational talent at TE and without a generational offensive coach. We will have to string together a lot of 10 play drives, and hope that our defense can execute well on the relatively low number of drives they get on the field because our offense is not remotely built for shootouts. 

 

For reasons that I don't understand that is the philosophy that this regime has intentionally chosen to move forward with.

[BillsVet]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I agree there is accountability upstream too. I have been on the "they are undervaluing wide receiver" since before it was cool. Indeed I was on the "I'm worried Brandon Beane will undervalue receiver" pretty much the moment he was hired. Because he came from an organisation with a history of doing it where they had some relative success (two Superbowl appearances in a 10/11 year span) despite it. 

 

Understand.  I see this model used in Carolina as something they need to overhaul to meet with league trends and because they have a franchise QB.  

 

Never in Carolina did they have a QB, not even Newton, who was near as good as Josh.  Yet, they've gone from working to or actually putting WRs around him (2019-20) to then going the route of ignoring/under-resourcing the position in (2021-22) to deciding they'd be more complementary in 2023-24.  

 

I'd even argue their approach with WR's is always a step-behind in that they went with bigger catch-radius types when the league was going away from it in 2017-18, to returning to it as the league transitions back to the shifty guys.  

 

They come off as without an appropriate offensive strategy or being ahead of the personnel game.  

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

They don't really have a choice, right? The personnel is going to dictate a low-risk low-reward style of offense. Explosive plays will have to come after the catch, not in air yards. We're going to attempt to resemble the 2023 Chiefs offense (which finished 9th in yards and 15th in points), but without a generational talent at TE and without a generational offensive coach. We will have to string together a lot of 10 play drives, and hope that our defense can execute well on the relatively low number of drives they get on the field because our offense is not remotely built for shootouts. 

 

For reasons that I don't understand that is the philosophy that this regime has intentionally chosen to move forward with.

 

That is the fear, but let's see. I do worry they don't have a guy that can separate and win going downfield 1v1 on the outside with any regularity. 

[Alphadawg7]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

lol what on earth are you talking about

 

YOU are the one who is consistently wrong and refuse to acknowledge it. you are probably more unapologetically wrong than almost anyone ive ever read on here. please dont make me bring up the diggs thread

 

i will have no problem saying i was wrong about Brady and the offense if they look great this year. unlike you i am capable of changing my opinion w out gaslighting

Lol, what are you talking about, I’ve already said I was wrong about Diggs getting traded this year.  I fully admit I didn’t think it would happen because of the cap hits being too much if it was this year and that next year I expected he would be gone, and clearly that wasn’t the case.  Just like many people thought as well.  
 

But I also said it wasn’t impossible, I just thought for Beane to take the hit things would have to get worse behind the scenes.  And once he was traded a lot more came out that things did.