I'm really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better

[Avisan]

31 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Hollins is one of the least-efficient WRs I have ever watched.  He's Robert Royal but as an outside WR.  If he plays significant snaps, he'll go from preseason fan favorite to mid-season fan whipping boy, is my prediction.

What?  His production numbers don't remotely bear that out.  He has roughly average efficiency.  If you threw a 550 attempt season to Mack Hollins' career per-target averages, you get a ~60% completion percentage for ~4,200 yards and 25 touchdowns.  He's fine.  Not good, but fine.

[BillsVet]

 

38 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Hollins is one of the least-efficient WRs I have ever watched.  He's Robert Royal but as an outside WR.  If he plays significant snaps, he'll go from preseason fan favorite to mid-season fan whipping boy, is my prediction.

 

I can envision guys like Hollins having to play until they make an in-season trade for someone who's capable at playing outside.    

 

And until that point, I can then see the narrative will be something like how they were cap-poor and couldn't possibly find better options. 

[Kirby Jackson]

8 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

This is a strange post to say they neglected the position and then list 4 things they did to address the position.  You may not like what they did but there is no need to mischaracterize the steps they did take.  Shakir was elevated last year starting with the Tampa Bay game and out performed Diggs and Davis in the process, Samuel was a priority as a free agent and got the biggest deal of the offseason and Coleman may have been the 8th taken but he may have been much higher on the Bills draft board which would make the 2 trade downs irrelevant.  Giving a new chance to other "busts" to fill out the bottom of the group and maybe stash on the the practice squad or use on special teams is a smart, lower cost approach.  I recall no advocates here for retaining Hardy, Sherfield or Davis for a $13M AAV cost.

 

We won't know what this group is until they play real games with QB1 running the show.  This was to be the case regardless of what they did or did not do to overhaul the position.

You need a certain amount of bodies at each position to fill the camp roster. They “neglected” it because they didn’t care about the quality of those bodies. So while they added some bodies, as every single team does, they neglected the need for quality. Not sure what’s strange?

 

Shakir has some ability but is a former 5th rounder with some production in a limited role. He’s now a focal point. We are calling Samuel a “priority FA” and he got a fraction of the contract of Gabe. Coleman was the 8th guy taken, period. If the Bills were higher on him, they wouldn’t have moved down once, let alone twice, risking the opportunity to take him. They obviously didn’t love the prospect. I don’t hate the idea of taking some former busts (Hamler, Claypool, Isabella, etc) and having them compete for the last spot. The Bills planned on needing those guys. That’s a failed strategy (again not surprising).

 

If you were to rank these WRs (WRs only) against the rest of the NFL, where would you have them? I’m on record that this group is between 30-32. If you are as high as it seems, please list the NFL teams that you believe are worse at WR than the 2024 Buffalo Bills (hint: it’s a VERY short list). 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Yeah 4 of 11 starters on offense (and really 4 of 6 non-OL players) is not 5.6% FYI.

 

What if somehow, we had a top 10 pick.  Do you think we pass up on Odunze or Neighbors because Beane is just dead set at wanting a bigger contested catch guy like Funchess?  Or maybe it's because Coleman was the best WR left on their chart?  Its harder and harder to find that elite WR pretty much outside the top 10.  

 

And mocking Beane for not being able to outscore an old Manning?  Well you know the reason?  Demarcus Ware and Von Miller with that legendarily good defense (#1 in points, sacks, pass defense and total defense) So I guess we mock Bill Belicheck because 2 weeks before in the AFCCG he also couldn't outscore the neckless Peyton Manning.  That's how that works right?

 

You guys and these crazy scenarios.  

[Turbo44]

1 hour ago, Turk71 said:

The Bills wr group is easily in the bottom 1/3rd of the league talentwise imo.

A top 3 QB in his 7th year and he has garbage wrs and a lousy offensive line; but they draft a new rb high every draft. Because when your offensive line sucks...you get a new running back!

kind of sounds like KC last year??

[ngbills]

20 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

kind of sounds like KC last year??

Problem with these comparisons is it starts with:

 

Reid > McD

Mahomes > Allen

Kelce > Kincaid/Knox

Pacheco > Cook/Davis

 

Who cares with all that if our WR's are as good as theirs. Plus Rice is likely better than any of our WR's. And guess what they did this offseason - added Brown and drafted Worthy. So clearly they care about having WR's. 

[Chaos]

3 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Problem with these comparisons is it starts with:

 

Reid > McD

Mahomes > Allen

Kelce > Kincaid/Knox

Pacheco > Cook/Davis

 

Who cares with all that if our WR's are as good as theirs. Plus Rice is likely better than any of our WR's. And guess what they did this offseason - added Brown and drafted Worthy. So clearly they care about having WR's. 

Mahomes is not better than Allen. 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, ngbills said:

Problem with these comparisons is it starts with:

 

Reid > McD

Mahomes > Allen

Kelce > Kincaid/Knox

Pacheco > Cook/Davis

 

Who cares with all that if our WR's are as good as theirs. Plus Rice is likely better than any of our WR's. And guess what they did this offseason - added Brown and drafted Worthy. So clearly they care about having WR's. 

 

Then why were the Chiefs #15 in scoring and we were #4 when every single thing they have is better?

Teams like the Colts, Saints and the Browns were ahead of the Chiefs.

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

Mahomes is not better than Allen. 

 

Until Allen wins it all, he can't be put ahead of Mahomes.

 

Mahomes has 3 Super Bowl wins and 6 AFCCG's before the age of 29.  

[Gregg]

3 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Mahomes is not better than Allen. 

 

Yes, he is. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Gregg said:

 

Yes, he is. 

He wasn't last year

[Chaos]

I am 100 percent confident of Allen and Mahomes were swapped, Mahomes does not have a single Super Bowl win 

[Gregg]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

He wasn't last year

 

Allen has to win a championship and probably multiple championships before he can be considered equal to Mahomes. I know football is a team sport and Allen can't win one alone but until he wins a championship then Mahomes is still considered the best QB playing today by fans/media. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Gregg said:

 

Allen has to win a championship and probably multiple championships before he can be considered equal to Mahomes. I know football is a team sport and Allen can't win one alone but until he wins a championship then Mahomes is still considered the best QB playing today by fans/media. 

So the QB can't win it alone but Mahomes>Allen because Super Bowls😂😂

 

Make it stop

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

So the QB can't win it alone but Mahomes>Allen because Super Bowls😂😂

 

Make it stop

 

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

So the QB can't win it alone but Mahomes>Allen because Super Bowls😂😂

 

Make it stop

 

Winning matters is my point. 4 Super Bowls in 5 years and 3 championships. Fans/media have Mahomes as the best QB because of that. Fair or not that is the way it is.

[Royale with Cheese]

18 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

So the QB can't win it alone but Mahomes>Allen because Super Bowls😂😂

 

Make it stop

 

If you're basing it on talent, then yes, I agree that Allen is better than Mahomes.

 

When you're measuring the better player, Championships are absolutely included and that's where Mahomes is well ahead of Allen.

You are measured by how you play in crunch time and playoff time.  You're not supposed to struggle and it makes news when you do.   

 

The only people who would say Allen is a better QB than Mahomes are Bills fans.  You can't argue against a QB with Mahomes resume just like you can't argue with Brady's resume.  

[JESSEFEFFER]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You need a certain amount of bodies at each position to fill the camp roster. They “neglected” it because they didn’t care about the quality of those bodies. So while they added some bodies, as every single team does, they neglected the need for quality. Not sure what’s strange?

 

Shakir has some ability but is a former 5th rounder with some production in a limited role. He’s now a focal point. We are calling Samuel a “priority FA” and he got a fraction of the contract of Gabe. Coleman was the 8th guy taken, period. If the Bills were higher on him, they wouldn’t have moved down once, let alone twice, risking the opportunity to take him. They obviously didn’t love the prospect. I don’t hate the idea of taking some former busts (Hamler, Claypool, Isabella, etc) and having them compete for the last spot. The Bills planned on needing those guys. That’s a failed strategy (again not surprising).

 

If you were to rank these WRs (WRs only) against the rest of the NFL, where would you have them? I’m on record that this group is between 30-32. If you are as high as it seems, please list the NFL teams that you believe are worse at WR than the 2024 Buffalo Bills (hint: it’s a VERY short list). 

 

1)  I will quote the last line of my previous post: "We won't know what this group is until they play real games with QB1 running the show.  This was to be the case regardless of what they did or did not do to overhaul the position."

 

2)  So is Diggs.

 

3) As of the TB game last year, Shakir likely played 70+% of snaps.  They gave him a bigger role last year and he produced.

 

4) In the tradition of John Brown, Cole Beasley and Robert Foster, I expect Curtis Samuel to play the best football of his NFL career in an offense run by Josh Allen.  I think he is likely to out-produce Gabe Davis regardless of the value of the contracts they signed.

 

5) I don't think they planned on needing any of those guys.  They had 2nd round athletic pedigrees and the Bills were hoping to improve the depth on their 53 and practice squad with them.  Maybe one pops and earns a bigger gameday role, an opportunity likely generated by injury to someone else, and that's when they become needed but I do not think any one of them was counted on for a big role in the offense at signing.

 

6) Refer to answer #1.

 

[BananaB]

51 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

 

Winning matters is my point. 4 Super Bowls in 5 years and 3 championships. Fans/media have Mahomes as the best QB because of that. Fair or not that is the way it is.

Fans and media had Lamar MVP because the Ravens won one more game. Seems kind of stupid to me. Ultimate team sport but when it comes to this position it seems there is no room for debate. I totally disagree, part of the reason I don’t watch any of these talking heads. I’m pretty sure if Mahommes was here his career wouldn’t be as successful and if Josh was in KC he’d be even better than he is.  Fact is Andy Reid has gotten the best out of McNabb, Garcia, Vick, Kolb and Smith but these talking ***** heads believe it’s all Mahomes. Kind of simple minded. 

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, BananaB said:

Fans and media had Lamar MVP because the Ravens won one more game. Seems kind of stupid to me. Ultimate team sport but when it comes to this position it seems there is no room for debate. I totally disagree, part of the reason I don’t watch any of these talking heads. I’m pretty sure if Mahommes was here his career wouldn’t be as successful and if Josh was in KC he’d be even better than he is.  Fact is Andy Reid has gotten the best out of McNabb, Garcia, Vick, Kolb and Smith but these talking ***** heads believe it’s all Mahomes. Kind of simple minded. 

 

Lamar, I agree with you but in the case of Mahomes he is considered the best QB because he produces in the biggest moments. 4 Super Bowl appearances in 5 years and winning 3 of them. If there was a poll for best QB in the NFL, then Mahomes wins easily and winning is a big reason for that.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

 

1)  I will quote the last line of my previous post: "We won't know what this group is until they play real games with QB1 running the show.  This was to be the case regardless of what they did or did not do to overhaul the position."

 

2)  So is Diggs.

 

3) As of the TB game last year, Shakir likely played 70+% of snaps.  They gave him a bigger role last year and he produced.

 

4) In the tradition of John Brown, Cole Beasley and Robert Foster, I expect Curtis Samuel to play the best football of his NFL career in an offense run by Josh Allen.  I think he is likely to out-produce Gabe Davis regardless of the value of the contracts they signed.

 

5) I don't think they planned on needing any of those guys.  They had 2nd round athletic pedigrees and the Bills were hoping to improve the depth on their 53 and practice squad with them.  Maybe one pops and earns a bigger gameday role, an opportunity likely generated by injury to someone else, and that's when they become needed but I do not think any one of them was counted on for a big role in the offense at signing.

 

6) Refer to answer #1.

 

That’s such a weak answer. Everyone that says, “we won’t know” is code for “they suck right now but I don’t want to admit it.” It’s okay. We are a bottom 3 group today. The question isn’t where “they could possibly be.” It is “where are they today?” They aren’t good. 
 

As an Ohio State fan, I have ALWAYS loved Curtis Samuel. I loved him from his recruiting story to this day. He isn’t a boundary WR. He’s a weapon. People didn’t like when I said that at his signing but it is true. The Bills have said as much. 
 

We are sitting here today with Mack Hollins as a lock!! That guy isn’t a guy that plays offense on a championship team. We have WR 3’s as 2’s, 2’s/3’s are 1’s and we are thin behind the top 3. It is a bad group. 

 

And another “shocker”

 

 

Edited August 14 by Kirby Jackson

[Mikey152]

16 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s such a weak answer. Everyone that says, “we won’t know” is code for “they suck right now but I don’t want to admit it.” It’s okay. We are a bottom 3 group today. The question isn’t where “they could possibly be.” It is “where are they today?” They aren’t good. 
 

As an Ohio State fan, I have ALWAYS loved Curtis Samuel. I loved him from his recruiting story to this day. He isn’t a boundary WR. He’s a weapon. People didn’t like when I said that at his signing but it is true. The Bills have said as much. 
 

We are sitting here today with Mack Hollins as a lock!! That guy isn’t a guy that plays offense on a championship team. We have WR 3’s as 2’s, 2’s/3’s are 1’s and we are thin behind the top 3. It is a bad group. 

 

Can I ask a somewhat simple question? What is your definition of addressing the position well? I ask because I feel like we go round and round on this and the goalposts keep moving to fit a narrative. Coleman isn't the first pick in the second round, he's the 8th receiver drafted (Tee Higgins was 7th and Michael Pittman was 8th at the top of the 2nd in 2020). Shakir isn't the most efficient receiver in the league last year, he's a 5th round pick (but so was Diggs). Samuel is a gadget guy and Hollins is a special teamer, but Darnell Mooney and Gabe Davis are difference makers because they signed a bigger contract. 

 

So what is it?  Draft slot, production, RAS score, contract?  Because as far as I can tell, it's whatever makes them look bad. It feels like confirmation bias.

Edited August 14 by Mikey152