I'm really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better

[NeverOutNick]

7 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

Keon Coleman is a Tee Higgins clone

 

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I like Keon’s body control. I’m not sure Higgins has that level of athleticism, but I understand the comparison. 

Said it in my pre draft  WR comp/rankings. That’s exactly what he is, a more athletic Tee Higgins. Hopefully he can become even more than that one day. He’s definitely got the right attitude 

Edited August 11 by NeverOutNick

[billsfan89]

6 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

 

Said it in my pre draft  WR comp/rankings. That’s exactly what he is, a more athletic Tee Higgins. Hopefully he can become even more than that one day. He’s definitely got the right attitude 

 

After the Bills drafted Coleman I though he was possibly an Anquan Boldin type but then I heard about his comp to Higgins and yeah I agree with that comp more than Boldin. 

[BADOLBILZ]

13 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

Keon Coleman is a Tee Higgins clone

 

I don't see that at all.

 

Higgins is not very athletic but is a super long athlete with 34" plus arms.   He's open when he's not open because of that.    

 

I don't really understand where the comp comes from.   To say Keon is a "more athletic" version is kinda' like saying Josh Allen is a more athletic Joe Burrow.   Keon is an 8 RAS and Higgins is a 4.    Just a different skill set.

 

Coleman is a more compact and explosive WR.  My comp is a "more athletic" Davante Adams (6 RAS).    

 

Which is why I don't expect immediate WR1 results from Coleman.   Took Adams several years to turn his body control, leaping ability, athletic nuance(intelligence) and capacity to operate with incredibly late hands into a WR1.   And then another season or so to become a superstar.   

 

I hope the learning curve is shorter with Coleman but unlike a lot of these young receivers he didn't live on the 7-on-7 circuit all thru HS.   The immediate ascension of some WR prospects is often attributed to those reps.   Coleman instead was trying to become a basketball player first.  

 

I hoped the learning curve would be shorter for Elam too.   Both had a lot of "project" potential in any objective evaluation of their outlook so I've never given up on Elam like some.

 

I still expect Beane to be shopping for WR1 in October and that acquisition could eventually lead to a situation like we see with Benford/Elam now.........except that WR1 will be under contract for many subsequent years when guys like Shakir and Coleman are jockeying for the other potential extension.

[Nephilim17]

25 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Coleman is a more compact and explosive WR.  My comp is a "more athletic" Davante Adams (6 RAS).    

 

Hell, I'll take that.

[BADOLBILZ]

42 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

Hell, I'll take that.

 

 

Me too.   It's not likely but I think it's his ceiling.  But also, if it takes until 2026 or 2027 for him to become a difference maker like it took Adams 3-4 years........then they may have compromised some of Josh Allen's prime.

Edited August 11 by BADOLBILZ

[Nephilim17]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Me too.   It's not likely but I think it's his ceiling.  But also, if it takes until 2026 or 2027 for him to become a difference maker like it did for Adams........then they may have compromised some of Josh Allen's prime.

Fair enough. But was there a WR available at our pick who you are confident will be a difference maker by 2025?

FWIW, with my uniformed opinion about college guys, I liked Legette.

Edited August 11 by Nephilim17

[CincyBillsFan]

That quick hitting WR screen to Samuel was just the tip of the iceberg of what that guy is going to do with that play in the regular season.

 

 

[Nephilim17]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

That quick hitting WR screen to Samuel was just the tip of the iceberg of what that guy is going to do with that play in the regular season.

 

 

I hoping between him, Shakir and Kincaid, Josh will have 3 reliable guys who can separate and catch the ball. For me, this year, Coleman is a bonus but not a necessary top-3 guy.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

Fair enough. But was there a WR available at our pick who you are confident will be a difference maker by 2025?

 

Oh I think it's very likely that there will be.......because there were so many talented one's that went after the Bills slotted pick in round 1.   Coleman was one of the younger and more raw of the top WR prospects.    

 

But they went into the offseason needing at least a WR1 "B" quality player to help re-open up their increasingly lower-flying offense.   Then promptly traded away their 1100+ yard WR1 and replaced their sub-900 yard ceiling quality starting X/WR2 Gabe Davis with a guy in Samuel that the OC/HC have said they see as more of a gadget guy than a starting X or Z.   And then they went with one of the rawer day 1/day 2 prospects  in the draft and even decided not to hedge that bet and select another WR on day 2.    This has all been hashed out.   On paper they didn't do enough and aren't better at WR in 2024 than they were heading into 2023. 

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, zow2 said:

Obviously we have some pass catchers...Shakir, Samuel, Kincaid, Knox, Cook...all those other WR's are a big question mark along with durability for all.  Coleman looks like he can be good but he has to get ready to play through the "handsy" stuff.  He's not a burner so DB's will be all over him and he will need to make plays while getting bumped around.  We know Josh is going to put the ball in the pass catchers hands,  let's see what they do.  It would be nice to have a Tee Higgins type guy but whatever,, maybe next year.

 

No disrespect...This notion DB's will be all over him because he is "not a burner" doesn't make a lot of sense.  He isn't any slower than guys like DeAndre Hopkins, Davante Adams, etc.  In fact, Keon's pro day 40 time was faster than both.  There is an over exaggeration about him not being a "burner".  Is he the guy you want to send on all kinds of go routes...probably not.  But can he make big chunk plays, get open deep, catch long TD's...absolutely that potential is there just like it is there with guys like Hopkins, Adams, Brandon Marshall, etc.  

 

And Coleman has excellent athleticism, agility, and body control.  On his first target, he got 5 yards of separation on his stop route for the catch and turn up the field for first down.  He ran the fastest gauntlet of any WR in the draft, which is a more significant indicator of in game play speed than sprinting in a straight line with no contact or coverage.

 

As far as the handsy stuff, I assume you are referring to the 3rd target.  In that area of the field so close to the endzone, the DB's are on top of all WR's, it had nothing to do with him being a burner or not.  And if you watch the play, Keon wins that route where his job is to get to the inside of the DB...which is why the DB grabs his jersey on the cut and goes over the back of Keon when the ball is still 2 to 3 yards away.  The reason it prob wasn't called PI is because Mitch threw such a bad pass.  But if Allen was in, and he threw a better ball that is either a TD or PI.

 

Now, its one preseason game...no conclusions can be taken from it.  But I think between his excellent camp, what he showed in the few chances he had in this game, there is a lot of reasons to be excited about the kid.  Nothing is for certain, but you would be hard pressed to find many other people whose stock has been rising as much as his.

Edited August 11 by Alphadawg7

[Chaos]

48 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Oh I think it's very likely that there will be.......because there were so many talented one's that went after the Bills slotted pick in round 1.   Coleman was one of the younger and more raw of the top WR prospects.    

 

But they went into the offseason needing at least a WR1 "B" quality player to help re-open up their increasingly lower-flying offense.   Then promptly traded away their 1100+ yard WR1 and replaced their sub-900 yard ceiling quality starting X/WR2 Gabe Davis with a guy in Samuel that the OC/HC have said they see as more of a gadget guy than a starting X or Z.   And then they went with one of the rawer day 1/day 2 prospects  in the draft and even decided not to hedge that bet and select another WR on day 2.    This has all been hashed out.   On paper they didn't do enough and aren't better at WR in 2024 than they were heading into 2023. 

How many passing yards to you think Allen will throw for this season? Last season he threw for 4306.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, Chaos said:

How many passing yards to you think Allen will throw for this season? Last season he threw for 4306.

 

I believe the gaming sites are projecting between 3700-3800 yards passing for Allen.   As I've said all offseason my opinion is based on likelihoods.......and the players are likely to produce at levels near where the professional handicappers believe.   My PREDICTION remains that they won't be satisfied with their WR corps as they approach midseason and that Beane will be in the trade market for a WR1 in October.   

[Saxum]

3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

We lost Diggs and didn't replace him with anyone as talented.

 

We also did lost Diggs and didn't replace him anyone who whined as much.

[Augie]

33 minutes ago, Punching Bag said:

 

We also did lost Diggs and didn't replace him anyone who whined as much.

 

That too. 

53 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I believe the gaming sites are projecting between 3700-3800 yards passing for Allen.   As I've said all offseason my opinion is based on likelihoods.......and the players are likely to produce at levels near where the professional handicappers believe.   My PREDICTION remains that they won't be satisfied with their WR corps as they approach midseason and that Beane will be in the trade market for a WR1 in October.   

 

Ever the optimist, I’ll take the over on that one. Time will tell. 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I don't see that at all.

 

Higgins is not very athletic but is a super long athlete with 34" plus arms.   He's open when he's not open because of that.    

 

I don't really understand where the comp comes from.   To say Keon is a "more athletic" version is kinda' like saying Josh Allen is a more athletic Joe Burrow.   Keon is an 8 RAS and Higgins is a 4.    Just a different skill set.

 

Coleman is a more compact and explosive WR.  My comp is a "more athletic" Davante Adams (6 RAS).    

 

Which is why I don't expect immediate WR1 results from Coleman.   Took Adams several years to turn his body control, leaping ability, athletic nuance(intelligence) and capacity to operate with incredibly late hands into a WR1.   And then another season or so to become a superstar.   

 

I hope the learning curve is shorter with Coleman but unlike a lot of these young receivers he didn't live on the 7-on-7 circuit all thru HS.   The immediate ascension of some WR prospects is often attributed to those reps.   Coleman instead was trying to become a basketball player first.  

 

I hoped the learning curve would be shorter for Elam too.   Both had a lot of "project" potential in any objective evaluation of their outlook so I've never given up on Elam like some.

 

I still expect Beane to be shopping for WR1 in October and that acquisition could eventually lead to a situation like we see with Benford/Elam now.........except that WR1 will be under contract for many subsequent years when guys like Shakir and Coleman are jockeying for the other potential extension.

Reminds me more of Michael Pittman in stature and RAS 

7 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

That quick hitting WR screen to Samuel was just the tip of the iceberg of what that guy is going to do with that play in the regular season.

 

 

The Bills have been ineffective at stretching the field horizontally for years. You saw a concentrated effort with Brady last year to get guys the ball laterally in space. I am hopeful they’ve found a path to consistent success in this realm as it will only help to open up things vertically and over the middle

[balln]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I believe the gaming sites are projecting between 3700-3800 yards passing for Allen.   As I've said all offseason my opinion is based on likelihoods.......and the players are likely to produce at levels near where the professional handicappers believe.   My PREDICTION remains that they won't be satisfied with their WR corps as they approach midseason and that Beane will be in the trade market for a WR1 in October.   

It’s where they think the public THINKS the number will be to get equal money bets. They think the betting public will factor in trading diggs. And that 3800 is the new number. 

[Billl]

19 minutes ago, balln said:

It’s where they think the public THINKS the number will be to get equal money bets. They think the betting public will factor in trading diggs. And that 3800 is the new number. 

That’s a myth.  Sports books don’t try to get the public to split their bets equally.  They hope that it happens that way, but that’s not how they set lines.  If they did, the professional gamblers would crush them.  Vegas thinks he’ll throw for 3700-3750 yards.  If the top actuarial minds really thought the number would be 4100, you’d have whales come in and place huge bets.

[Big Blitz]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I believe the gaming sites are projecting between 3700-3800 yards passing for Allen.   As I've said all offseason my opinion is based on likelihoods.......and the players are likely to produce at levels near where the professional handicappers believe.   My PREDICTION remains that they won't be satisfied with their WR corps as they approach midseason and that Beane will be in the trade market for a WR1 in October.   

 

I think that’s because they’re of the belief we’re going to run more and be more balanced.  But I’d bust that over.  
 

Guess the yardage - here is mine (roughly) and this I think is the absolute floor:

 

Shakir - 80 catches 1,000

Kincaid - 85 catches 800 

Samuel - 60 catches 800

Coleman - 50 catches 600

Other WRs/TEs - 40 catches 300 

RBs - 50 catches 400 

 

Total - 365 catches 3900 yards 

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

 

I think that’s because they’re of the belief we’re going to run more and be more balanced.  But I’d bust that over.  
 

Guess the yardage - here is mine (roughly) and this I think is the absolute floor:

 

Shakir - 80 catches 1,000

Kincaid - 85 catches 800 

Samuel - 60 catches 800

Coleman - 50 catches 600

Other WRs/TEs - 40 catches 300 

RBs - 50 catches 400 

 

Total - 365 catches 3900 yards 

 

 

Based on Shakir's averages last year, If Shakir gets 80 catches... that is 1100 yards easy.

[JerseyBills]

14 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Oh I think it's very likely that there will be.......because there were so many talented one's that went after the Bills slotted pick in round 1.   Coleman was one of the younger and more raw of the top WR prospects.    

 

But they went into the offseason needing at least a WR1 "B" quality player to help re-open up their increasingly lower-flying offense.   Then promptly traded away their 1100+ yard WR1 and replaced their sub-900 yard ceiling quality starting X/WR2 Gabe Davis with a guy in Samuel that the OC/HC have said they see as more of a gadget guy than a starting X or Z.   And then they went with one of the rawer day 1/day 2 prospects  in the draft and even decided not to hedge that bet and select another WR on day 2.    This has all been hashed out.   On paper they didn't do enough and aren't better at WR in 2024 than they were heading into 2023. 

Idk, if Coleman was too raw to handle being at least what Gabe was, McD would not have him with the 1s just because he was our 1st pick.. Look at Elam, Allen even , Cody Ford 

He seems like he'll be in line for 80-100 targets, has good work ethic and physically gifted. Also his hands look elite in TC. 

But Diggs>Coleman/Samuel , Coleman/Samuel >Davis 24 Shakir>23 Shakir , MVS/Hollins > Sherfield/ Harty and 1 of Hamler,Shavers,Claypool as 6th. 

 

As a group we're better/deeper imo. Can get very creative and attack teams differently weekly. This O has alot of different dimensions.

Look what we had on the field in KC gm without Gabe, this is a much deeper group.