I'm really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better

[Augie]

4 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

The counter to this is, of course, that some others seem to think that the McDermott Bills never need to win a SB. That fans should be thrilled with them being a very good team even if they can’t get it done in the playoffs against another good team. That that is the gold standard we should all be ecstatic with. 

 

Both, of course, are utterly ridiculous. They’re just underhanded tactics used by people trying to frame someone else’s opinion as unreasonable. Most reasonable fans realize that with one of the top QBs in the league that a team should win at least one SB, but that winning in any single year is not a given.

 

Then it becomes a “body of work” discussion. My issue with McDermott - beyond his horrific 13 second gaffes - is his playoff record against quality teams. He’s 5-0 against 4-7 seeds and 0-6 against 1-4 seeds. I’m not sure how that is acceptable with Josh Allen at QB. (Note that he is 0-5 against 1-4 seeds with Allen.) Other than blind luck, I’m not sure why anyone expects an improvement over that. 

 

Other than the inexplicable loss to the Bengals, we are struggling to get past Mahomes and Reid. Just like the rest of the league. 

 

I happen to believe that people can get better at their jobs, and I believe we are not that far away from getting over the top. 

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Other than the inexplicable loss to the Bengals, we are struggling to get past Mahomes and Reid. Just like the rest of the league. 

 

I happen to believe that people can get better at their jobs, and I believe we are not that far away from getting over the top. 

unfortunately, the bigger challenge is that now that we are fully into Josh being paid- the job also is harder. 
 

so getting better may just be standing still. Suddenly you have to take multiple steps forward to avoid falling behind.

[Warriorspikes51]

the depth chart at WR over the next few weeks will be highly interesting

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, Augie said:

 

Other than the inexplicable loss to the Bengals, we are struggling to get past Mahomes and Reid. Just like the rest of the league. 

 

I happen to believe that people can get better at their jobs, and I believe we are not that far away from getting over the top. 

 

Cincy just felt like a more physical team and came in and out muscled us.  A week after their backup linemen trounced buffalo, they looked absolutely overwhelmed by KC's defense.  There were also defensive coverage concerns, and just generally it almost felt like we lined up to let them march down the field against us.  It "can" work, but the offense needs to score early and often, and you need to hold them to FGs (buffalo did neither).  Also not sure if burrow is the right guy for this defensive gameplan because he seemed totally content to just take underneath stuff all day long and carved the secondary up.  End of the day - burrow needs to be pressured, and their run game needs to be stopped, however you want to do that.  Mahomes you can do those things and still lose because he's just as elusive as Allen, and just as talented on broken plays.  

 

The thing about Cincy over the next 2 seasons I'd say is they're approaching their... 2023 bills season.  The end of cheap burrow basically.  Higgins will probably leave after this season, and Chase needs to get paid.  Hendricksons deal is up next year.  They replaced Reader with Rankins who's up after 2025, and he's not exactly a young man.  BJ Hill is a free agent after this season.  Hilton is a free agent after this season.  Hubbards due for a raise.  The plan at safety is unclear.  Beyond the - do they keep the band together - aspect of it, you have an ownership group that isn't nearly as aggressive as others and seems to want to keep a clean balance sheet year to year.  

[BillsVet]

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think when Brandon Beane says he will "never apologise" for prioritising the defensive front seven that is because he means it. It is how he was taught in Carolina. It is how he has drafted. It is how he would draft regardless of who the coach was if he, as he is here, is in charge of personnel decisions. 

 

I don't see anyone having an issue with the concept of prioritizing the DL.  NFL teams always want pass rushers with the aerial game so prolific.  And of course McD values them even more because his defensive scheme emphasizes front-4 pressure.  Their move to sign Miller was, on its face, a bold move to address this.    

 

It's how much this priority investment costs for other areas of the team.  

 

To that point, after taking Josh in 2018, their next 9 RD1 or 2 picks netted 4 DL, 1 MLB, 1 bust OL, 1 CB, Diggs, and Cook. 

 

At some point, a very good organization either succeeds and shows their philosophy works or takes a long look in the mirror and says something has to change during the next off-season. 

[ColoradoBills]

33 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

the depth chart at WR over the next few weeks will be highly interesting

 

I have modified my WR "depth chart" of Samuel, Shakir, Hollins and Coleman all being used not as "depth chart roles" but by play calls and matchups.

No real #1 and no #4 "roles".  All of them 2-3.  It may not make sense to some, but it does to me.

 

WR5 and WR6 (most likely keeping 6) can be best judged as a % probability right now.

MVS, Shavers and Hamler's %s keep moving around.  As stated by many, it will come down to health, WR trait success and STs.

Right now, I got Shavers and Hamler.  Both have ST abilities so 1 of those 2 will lock if healthy.

 

That leaves 1 slot.  I don't count out MVS even without any STs worth because if 6 WRs are kept 1 will not dress a lot of times.

That would be MVS if all other 5 are health and dressed.

 

If Claypool is not back to practice soon, he's gone.  The rest will battle for any PS spots left. 

 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

unfortunately, the bigger challenge is that now that we are fully into Josh being paid- the job also is harder. 
 

so getting better may just be standing still. Suddenly you have to take multiple steps forward to avoid falling behind.

and again- we are NOT struggling to get past the Chiefs 'like the rest of the league'

 

the teams i listed previously do NOT give up anywhere close to the numbers that we do vs Mahomes.

[BarleyNY]

6 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Other than the inexplicable loss to the Bengals, we are struggling to get past Mahomes and Reid. Just like the rest of the league. 

 

I happen to believe that people can get better at their jobs, and I believe we are not that far away from getting over the top. 

Not accurate with KC. They lost their following game two of the three times they beat us in the playoffs. So the league handled them. In fact KC’s SB win this past season was the only exception. The other five times the team that beat us in the playoffs lost their next game. 

 

But you’re hopeful that McDermott will improve. I do too. We seem to be stuck with him so what’s the other choice? I’ve seen enough that I’d have gina another way. You haven’t. That’s cool. I hope you’re right. 

[BillsFanForever19]

13 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

GunnerBill had speculated from Beane's background with Carolina that Beane would not be prioritizing WRs.  GB said this at least a year ago, and for me it had never been a real consideration.  But this year Beane has had, IMO, a real WR problem (contrary to what the OP is trying to sell us).

 

No one is knocking Beane for his Carolina picks, but GB used that background as a basis to predict that Beane would not be prioritizing the WR room.  I don't buy his reasoning, but his prediction has certainly come through.

 

I have a lot of respect for GB. But I don't think his being in Carolina has any weight on his addressing or not addressing the position.

 

It boils down to a lack of finances to spend big on any one position and not feeling that anyone after the 33rd Pick in the Draft was someone he could count on in Year 1. It's as simple as that. There's obviously a massive disconnect between how he viewed the WR prospects from Pick 60 and beyond, how he views guys like Kincaid, Coleman, Samuel, Shakir, and others - and how you and other fans do. You may be right. He may be right. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

[90sBills]

6 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

I don't see anyone having an issue with the concept of prioritizing the DL.  NFL teams always want pass rushers with the aerial game so prolific.  And of course McD values them even more because his defensive scheme emphasizes front-4 pressure.  Their move to sign Miller was, on its face, a bold move to address this.    

 

It's how much this priority investment costs for other areas of the team.  

 

To that point, after taking Josh in 2018, their next 9 RD1 or 2 picks netted 4 DL, 1 MLB, 1 bust OL, 1 CB, Diggs, and Cook. 

 

At some point, a very good organization either succeeds and shows their philosophy works or takes a long look in the mirror and says something has to change during the next off-season. 

It would not surprised me if this organization thinks they have been successful and that their philosophy is indeed working. To some degree they’re correct. 

[FireChans]

20 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I largely agree with this. The one point I disagree with is that it’s a KC problem. They just happened to be the high quality team we played 3 times. As you said, we falter against elite teams with premier QBs. 

Collection of slots is for 2024. The pocket time stat shows that Allen and the offense is getting the ball out fast. my point was that this helps the OL’s pass blocking. 

It does.

 

It will be interesting to see this offense. I don’t think Josh has reached his ultimate potential of winning presnap or even post snap yet. Making the “correct” read methodically is not a way I’d describe as his game, but again part of that is talent related. He was playing pitch and catch when Diggs and Beasley were elite and Dabs was designing the plays. He now has no elite target, but several with potential. 
 

We really need two of his young guys to step up significantly imo

[Nephilim17]

Camp reports, and especially Joe Marino's take, say Josh is looking in command in dialed in during camp. He's also having a ton of fun. The whole team is. Marino said, I believe, it's like a cloud lifted off of the offense.

It may not translate to winning the division but I believe Josh now being top dog on this offense and not feeling pressure to feed any one player is good for his development (and he's already elite, to be clear). 

Some might counter "look how much fun Josh will have when the regular season losses pile up" but I'm not convinced that's a certainty. I think Kincaid, Shakir and Samuel will do better than some people think as the top three. And Coleman will contribute as well. A lot will fall on Josh and Brady but I think they're up to the task.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Nephilim17 said:

Camp reports, and especially Joe Marino's take, say Josh is looking in command in dialed in during camp. He's also having a ton of fun. The whole team is. Marino said, I believe, it's like a cloud lifted off of the offense.

 

I think Stef going is part of that but I think Dorsey was too. I was never convinced post his temper tantrum at Miami and then the offense all looked miserable by the time he was fired. I'm not sure he had the energy and the vibe they wanted in that room. 

Edited August 6 by GunnerBill

[JerseyBills]

22 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Other than the inexplicable loss to the Bengals, we are struggling to get past Mahomes and Reid. Just like the rest of the league. 

 

I happen to believe that people can get better at their jobs, and I believe we are not that far away from getting over the top. 

Struggling is a strong word in this specific scenario,  out of 3 playoff games, Buf should've won 2. 

Minor mistakes cost us , yea they're unacceptable but the gap is extremely close

[BillsVet]

14 hours ago, 90sBills said:

It would not surprised me if this organization thinks they have been successful and that their philosophy is indeed working. To some degree they’re correct. 

 

Well, they ran it back a couple years in a row until their self-inflicted cap issues made it hard to keep spending big on defense with Josh's and Diggs' contracts.  

 

2024 is really a referendum on this idea of complementary football.  If it works, great.  If not, a significant course correction is in order that supports Josh first and everything else becomes second.  Still don't see this HC signing up for that though. 

[BigAl2526]

Wasn't sure where to give my take on who will be the receivers for the Bills on the 53 man roster.  I don't want to start a new thread too do it.  This thread seems to be the best place to do it.  Of course there are several locks.  Coleman, Shakir, Samuel and Hollis all seem to be locks at this point.  My guess is that Shavers is winning the fifth spot based on his play in camp.  I think the Bills will keep a sixth receiver.  I don't think they'll keep seven.  My guess is they would like that las receiver to have some speed.  Among the top five, only Samuel is a burner.  Shakir is more quick than fast.  Coleman isn't the turtle we've joked about, but his game is not based on speed.  Hollis is similar to Coleman in the speed department.  I think Shavers is too.  Both MVS and Claypool have ample speed to go with their size, but Claypool has done nothing in training camp and while MVS has made a few spectacular plays, he's also had more than his share of drops.  I think the leaves KJ Hamler ahead in the competition for the sixth spot.  He has speed to burn and seems to balance out the size Buffalo has with Coleman, Hollis and Shavers.  It gives Buffalo three big receivers and three smaller elusive receivers with some speed among them.

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

Well, they ran it back a couple years in a row until their self-inflicted cap issues made it hard to keep spending big on defense with Josh's and Diggs' contracts.  

 

2024 is really a referendum on this idea of complementary football.  If it works, great.  If not, a significant course correction is in order that supports Josh first and everything else becomes second.  Still don't see this HC signing up for that though. 

If they win the division and make it to the 2nd of the playoffs again then expect them to declare that a success and rinse repeat for the foreseeable future. 

[Alphadawg7]

On 8/5/2024 at 2:16 PM, BillsVet said:

 

I don't see anyone having an issue with the concept of prioritizing the DL.  NFL teams always want pass rushers with the aerial game so prolific.  And of course McD values them even more because his defensive scheme emphasizes front-4 pressure.  Their move to sign Miller was, on its face, a bold move to address this.    

 

It's how much this priority investment costs for other areas of the team.  

 

To that point, after taking Josh in 2018, their next 9 RD1 or 2 picks netted 4 DL, 1 MLB, 1 bust OL, 1 CB, Diggs, and Cook. 

 

At some point, a very good organization either succeeds and shows their philosophy works or takes a long look in the mirror and says something has to change during the next off-season. 

 

No disrespect, but this is a creative way to create a narrative.  "After Josh" is just a way of not counting Josh given you still counted the rest of his draft.  So out the gate that makes it appear even more skewed defense.  Then you left 2 drafts out where 3 of the 4 picks were offense in TE, OL, and WR.  

 

So if someone was to lay out the full draft history it would be 14 draft picks...7 defensive and 7 offensive.  But writing your way changes the narrative to look more defensive heavy.

 

The past 3 drafts we have gone 4 offensive players and 2 defensive players with our first 2 picks.  So it’s been a clear effort to prioritize the offense in the most recent years as Josh has been entering his prime.

Edited August 6 by Alphadawg7

[DeepPass]

I like the guys were brought in for '24 also.  BUT, let's wait until the bullets start flying  and NFL cornerbacks knock our receivers off their routes!! I'm hoping for the best!!

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Stef going is part of that but I think Dorsey was too. I was never convinced post his temper tantrum at Miami and then the offense all looked miserable by the time he was fired. I'm not sure he had the energy and the vibe they wanted in that room. 

 

 

Eh........sometimes you just gotta' fire a coach to re-focus people.   They don't have to be low energy or even culpable for failure to be canned they just gotta' be the guy who was overseeing what isn't working.   It's a lot more common in other sports.   I think all of the NBA, NHL and MLB have had a head coaching/manager change in-season and had that team later reach the finals in the last 5 years.   Probably even easier in kickball.

 

Hard to do with a head coach in the NFL........but an OC or DC with a replacement in-house would be the equivalent.  Dorsey had already begun implementing the changes they needed to adapt to being a lower-flying offense.   He just needed full permission to put Josh Allen in the meat grinder if necessary.    They withheld that permission until they hired Brady and that multiplied the force of the move.   It wasn't like they were firing Bill Walsh to hire Mike Shanahan.   They swapped out a modestly regarded 2nd year OC for a recently fired OC.