I'm really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better

[PBF81]

16 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

You prefer 7th grade level whining and endless negativity?  

 

Are those the only two choices? 

 

Pretty sad if so.  

 

 

[JerseyBills]

16 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

How the hell is Shavers better than anyone?  He hasn’t played an NFL snap.  Go with MVS Claypool Shakir Hollins Samuel Coleman, and put Shavers and Hamler on the practice squad and let’s get the party started.  MVS is an NFL WR.  He has made big catches.  He has length and speed.  Enough said. 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/tyrell-shavers-left-uncovered-for-22-yard-td-reception-bills-vs-colts-preseason

 

He's in year 2 man. It's called development.  I'm not saying he makes it but ya never know 

[PBF81]

16 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

How the hell is Shavers better than anyone?  He hasn’t played an NFL snap.  Go with MVS Claypool Shakir Hollins Samuel Coleman, and put Shavers and Hamler on the practice squad and let’s get the party started.  MVS is an NFL WR.  He has made big catches.  He has length and speed.  Enough said. 

 

They say this crap every year. 

 

Look at how much Allen was in love with Dorsey.  And at all the positive hype about Sheffield is ast year.  

 

Allen's said similar things about other players that never worked out.  It's good press.  Why say anything negative, why not be overly positive.  It's free.  

 

We need an OC that knows how to get the most out of Allen and the offense, not one that kowtows to him and let's him dictate much of the offense.  Allen's being besties with them all isn't as important.  

 

Unfortunately we'll never have such an OC as long as McD is here.  

 

Then everyone will be puzzled and perplexed when these lofty statements don't come to pass.  

 

The homerism is a little out of control right now, but that's normal for this time of year.  😏

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

The homerism is a little out of control right now, but that's normal for this time of year.  😏

 

 

Yea, it's extraordinary that on a Buffalo Bills message board Bills fans, like almost every other fan-base in America, are positive and excited about a team with an elite QB that has gone to the playoffs 5 straight years and won 4 straight division titles.  I just don't get it when there are so many reasons to be negative and miserable.

 

 

[oldmanfan]

12 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Yea, it's extraordinary that on a Buffalo Bills message board Bills fans, like almost every other fan-base in America, are positive and excited about a team with an elite QB that has gone to the playoffs 5 straight years and won 4 straight division titles.  I just don't get it when there are so many reasons to be negative and miserable.

 

 

I think I’ve figured it out.  PBF81 is the Bills equivalent of the Randy Quade character in Major League, miserable until they win, then pretends he knew all along they’d be great.

 

I’d rather be optimistic than miserable myself.

[PBF81]

13 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Yea, it's extraordinary that on a Buffalo Bills message board Bills fans, like almost every other fan-base in America, are positive and excited about a team with an elite QB that has gone to the playoffs 5 straight years and won 4 straight division titles.  I just don't get it when there are so many reasons to be negative and miserable.

 

 

Ya know, I feel very sorry for people that only see two options in contexts like this.  

 

Homerism vs. misery/negativity.

 

It actually explains a lot about the world we live in.  

 

 

[Doc]

25 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

They say this crap every year. 

 

Look at how much Allen was in love with Dorsey.  And at all the positive hype about Sheffield is ast year.  

 

Allen's said similar things about other players that never worked out.  It's good press.  Why say anything negative, why not be overly positive.  It's free.  

 

We need an OC that knows how to get the most out of Allen and the offense, not one that kowtows to him and let's him dictate much of the offense.  Allen's being besties with them all isn't as important.  

 

Unfortunately we'll never have such an OC as long as McD is here.  

 

Then everyone will be puzzled and perplexed when these lofty statements don't come to pass.  

 

The homerism is a little out of control right now, but that's normal for this time of year.  😏

 

And last year you kept insisting that not keeping Edmunds would be a huge problem and/or at least that they didn't plan for his departure and should have drafted Nakobe Dean.  Bernard ended up being great and Dean missed the entire season.  We all have our opinions...

 

As for the implication that McD won't hire a great OC, who is this great OC candidate he passed-up on after Daboll's departure? 

[nedboy7]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Are those the only two choices? 

 

Pretty sad if so.  

 

 

Is discussing the team w optimism and hoping for the best homerism?   I mean it’s preseason and I watch the team for entertainment. Or do I have to bring up 13 seconds to make it feel realistic. 😜

[Low Positive]

People complaining about homerism on the least homer message board in the NFL is rich. Jets and fins fans are planning parades, Bengals fans have convinced themselves that Chase not practicing is a good thing, while we have 87 pages of “pump the breaks” aimed at a fan who had the audacity to start a positive thread about their own team. 

[Rocky Landing]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Does sounds like MVS has rebounded a bit week two of camp and has been back with the ones more after finding himself marooned with the twos at the end of week one. So that does bear watching. 

 

I do generally agree with your point though. WRs 5 and 6 have to contribute on teams. MVS doesn't. Now my guess is Hollins will play a fair amount of teams even as essentially WR4. Whether that changes the calculation I'm not sure. My instinct at the moment is both MVS and Shavers make it as WRs 5 and 6 behind the top 4. Reason being I don't see anyone else they won't be able to PS if they want to. But pre-season games might alter that. 

I'm also of the suspicion that they're moving away (at least for this season) from ST-only players like Siran Neal, Matekevich, or Taiwan Jones. The team has gotten younger (Von Miller notwithstanding), and there is a depth problem on defense. It kind of flips the priorities, in a way. They wouldn't keep someone like Hollins for his ST ability-- he'll also have to contribute to the offense. I think that may be why Shavers has gotten his opportunities with the ones. His ST acumen has been established, but now he's showing consistency with the offense. And even if MVS proves to be the better WR, Shavers is a developmental player that they've been working with since last year-- and clearly he's been developing.

 

I think that really puts MVS on the bubble. I've been of the mind that they're not going to keep another 6'4" guy as the #6. I suspect it's going to be one of the smaller, speedy guys-- Hamler, or Isabella, making two WR battles to watch: MVS vs Shavers, and Hamler vs Isabella.

[muppy]

@Rocky Landing the thread that refuses to die. And Still interesting.  I like what you wrote. Valid takes and you made it plain. Great thanks. GO BILLS

13 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

People complaining about homerism on the least homer message board in the NFL is rich. Jets and fins fans are planning parades, Bengals fans have convinced themselves that Chase not practicing is a good thing, while we have 87 pages of “pump the breaks” aimed at a fan who had the audacity to start a positive thread about their own team. 

don't forget BEST NFL forum chat board. I dont think there is much debate to be had about it either. The other forums Ive read are straight trash compared to here.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

 

I think that really puts MVS on the bubble. I've been of the mind that they're not going to keep another 6'4" guy as the #6. I suspect it's going to be one of the smaller, speedy guys-- Hamler, or Isabella, making two WR battles to watch: MVS vs Shavers, and Hamler vs Isabella.

 

Yea this is what I disagree with. I don't think either Hamler or Isabella have a serious chance at the 53. First because they have been quiet as hell in camp. Second because they were both PS players the entirity of last season. One here, one with the Colts. What would suddenly make either a hot commodity for a 53? Both are easy enough to slide onto your PS. MVS at this stage would still be a risk (though not a certainty) to end up on someone else's 53. 

 

I do think MVS is on the bubble. But to me he is on the bubble to them not keeping a 6th receiver or possibly to Claypool getting healthy and balling out in PS both at WR and on teams. I don't see either Hamler or Isabella as any kind of threat. And therefore I think most likely is they keep 6 and MVS and Shavers both make it.

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

Can you imagine this forum if we didn't have the Knights of Reality and Scourge of Homerism to deliver the Truth to the rabble? 

 

RAMPANT POSITIVITY if you can imagine

 

It's a tough job but someone has to step up

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Does sounds like MVS has rebounded a bit week two of camp and has been back with the ones more after finding himself marooned with the twos at the end of week one. So that does bear watching. 

 

I do generally agree with your point though. WRs 5 and 6 have to contribute on teams. MVS doesn't. Now my guess is Hollins will play a fair amount of teams even as essentially WR4. Whether that changes the calculation I'm not sure. My instinct at the moment is both MVS and Shavers make it as WRs 5 and 6 behind the top 4. Reason being I don't see anyone else they won't be able to PS if they want to. But pre-season games might alter that. 

 

 

I think people are conflating Hollins being a roster lock with him being WR4.   He and MVS are well past their primes so neither are likely to be huge contributors in the passing game, IMO but MVS is likely to get more targets so he's WR4 in that regard.    

 

REALLY terrible performance from the WR corps as a whole Friday night.  Weren't even any Jake Kumerow's out there dominating with the knowledge that they weren't actually going to get hit.   Just guys dropping passes when open and otherwise being covered.  

 

We will hopefully see if Shavers is anywhere close to playable during the preseason when he's contested and has to catch passes "NFL open".   Haven't really seen any of that the past two camps.  Right now I see them just keeping 5.    And if they had a guy like Aiyuk or Metcalf they might only need 4.   

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

And last year you kept insisting that not keeping Edmunds would be a huge problem and/or at least that they didn't plan for his departure and should have drafted Nakobe Dean.  Bernard ended up being great and Dean missed the entire season.  We all have our opinions...

 

As for the implication that McD won't hire a great OC, who is this great OC candidate he passed-up on after Daboll's departure? 

 

LOL  

 

You've gotta love how the personally directed stuff starts with simple nonspecifically directed factual observations.  

 

What I said was that our run D would get worse, which it did, significantly.  Granted, it didn't seem to be much of an issue.  

 

But since you're brought it up, isn't it also funny how McD claims that our offense needs to be more run heavy and that's how games are won, but on the defensive side he does the opposite?  

 

 

40 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Is discussing the team w optimism and hoping for the best homerism?   I mean it’s preseason and I watch the team for entertainment. Or do I have to bring up 13 seconds to make it feel realistic. 😜

 

Again, if those are the only two options, ... could be you, or the people suggesting that.  

 

 

 

BTW, those types of arguments are akin to playground tantrum of young children.  

 

 

What's even more hilarious is the one's going overboard in the fall and at season's end will be those thinking that Coleman's going to have some kind of monster rookie season, that Davis is going to do much more than Singletary or Moss ever did.  How Samuel's going to replicate his best of his seven seasons.  etc.  

 

Apparently then it's just fine to be over the top negative and pessimistic.  LOL  

 

Honestly, forums are the best little microcosms of human nature.  

 

 

[BananaB]

I find it hard to believe Hollins is gonna be more than a ST player. Would think him and Shavers fighting for the same spot. When they signed him I immediately thought of Sherfield and Harty. Might look good in camp, have some leverage over younger players but will be a mistake if he’s on the roster taking time from a player who actually shows potential 

Edited August 4 by BananaB

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

LOL  

 

You've gotta love how the personally directed stuff starts with simple nonspecifically directed factual observations.  

 

What I said was that our run D would get worse, which it did, significantly.  Granted, it didn't seem to be much of an issue.  

 

But since you're brought it up, isn't it also funny how McD claims that our offense needs to be more run heavy and that's how games are won, but on the defensive side he does the opposite? 

 

The defense allowed 0.27 YPA more in 2023 than 2022.  And it lost their best LB for 75% of the season.

[Matt_In_NH]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Expendable for who though? That is kind of where I am. If this was a straight Shavers v MVS then I'd be absolutely it is Shavers because of teams. I don't think it is though. It is more like Shavers and MVS vs only keeping 5 receivers. Claypool was inconsistent the few days he was out there then got hurt. Shorter has been invisible. Hamler and Isabella likewise. Maybe they do keep only 5 but if they do that it will because they are confident sneaking other guys through to the PS.

 

I think we see it the same way.  If they keep 5 then it is MVS vs Shavers at this point IMO and while Shavers can play teams, MVS has a guaranteed contract so it actually costs more on the cap to waive MVS and keep Shavers.....essentially you have to pay both in that scenario  Claypool, Shorter, Hamler and Isabella are cut at this point....Hamler maybe has an outside shot if he returns kicks or there is an injury.   If they keep 6 then it is probably Shavers and MVS but MVS will likely start out inactive until injuries occur or not.

[Rocky Landing]

47 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea this is what I disagree with. I don't think either Hamler or Isabella have a serious chance at the 53. First because they have been quiet as hell in camp. Second because they were both PS players the entirity of last season. One here, one with the Colts. What would suddenly make either a hot commodity for a 53? Both are easy enough to slide onto your PS. MVS at this stage would still be a risk (though not a certainty) to end up on someone else's 53. 

 

I do think MVS is on the bubble. But to me he is on the bubble to them not keeping a 6th receiver or possibly to Claypool getting healthy and balling out in PS both at WR and on teams. I don't see either Hamler or Isabella as any kind of threat. And therefore I think most likely is they keep 6 and MVS and Shavers both make it.

I seem to remember Dean Kindig talking Hamler up a couple times. But it’s hard to sift through all the narratives, and 12 second highlight shots. Even the “experts” have biases this time of year. 
 

But I think @BADOLBILZ above is right. There has been an assumption on this site that they’re carrying six WRs. But at some point, adding yet another 6’4”+ receiver is just redundant (on a team that really can’t afford redundancy).

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said:

I think that really puts MVS on the bubble. I've been of the mind that they're not going to keep another 6'4" guy as the #6.

 

MVS is the only true field stretcher on the roster though, and his salary is fully guaranteed. For those 2-3 practices where he wasn't with the 1s at all I wondered if he would be the first guaranteed signing since OJ Howard to manage to lose his roster spot, but now that he's firmly back in with the starters I am back to thinking he is a roster lock. He has a set role in the offense as a field stretcher, and while he may represent the bare minimum that you can get out of that role it is a necessary role and no one else on the roster is even ostensibly competing against him for it.

 

Hamler I think is a PS lock. He'll be our emergency call up if Samuel ever gets injured. Sounds like Hardy is winning the kick return job and has shown enough on defense to warrant a spot on the roster, so that leaves Hamler as a redundant player.