Mikey152 Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: DeAndre Hopkins Last season? They clearly tried...he got way more money than they could reasonably afford (2/26). They didn't have anywhere near that much cap space. Edited July 22 by Mikey152 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 9 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: Last season? They clearly tried...he got way more money than they could reasonably afford (2/26). They didn't have anywhere near that much cap space. Hopkins cost $4M against the cap in 2023. Harty cost $4M against the cap in 2023. Sherfield cost $1.7M. Bad take palooza continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Claude Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 (edited) This top 32 business is getting pretty ridiculous. I am constantly seeing the complaint that the Bills only having two receivers in the top 32 in 2000 even though they had the 5th (Diggs) and 33rd (Davis) in 2022. Would the Bills receiving corp be any different if Davis had a few more yards and finished 32nd? Did KC having the 29th (Kelce) and 32nd (Rice) really mean that they were better than the Bills receivers in 2022? The Bills receiving corp may very well such even if they have two top 32 receivers. On the other hand, if by some miracle they finish with a top 10 receiver and a couple in the upper 30s or lower 40s they will be perfectly fine. Edited July 22 by Billy Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 11 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: They clearly tried...he got way more money than they could reasonably afford (2/26). They didn't have anywhere near that much cap space. Right so your response to that was extremely predictable and shows that you didn't ask that question in good faith. For the record, yes we obviously could have afforded Hopkins, at the expense of other players of course. But we chose to prioritize other positions instead. Which is the whole point of this conversation. We have repeatedly prioritized other positions over WR and it has repeatedly cost us. Imagine if Hopkins was in Sherfield's spot against the Chiefs. Think that might have made a difference? Ah but for you that example doesn't count. Because of reasons. 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey152 Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 15 minutes ago, FireChans said: Hopkins cost $4M against the cap in 2023. Harty cost $4M against the cap in 2023. Sherfield cost $1.7M. Bad take palooza continues. And 18 Million this year with a 12 million dead cap hit... Can't afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 17 minutes ago, Billy Claude said: This top 32 business is getting pretty ridiculous. I am constantly seeing the complaint that the Bills only having two receivers in the top 32 in 2000 even though they had the 5th (Diggs) and 33rd (Davis) in 2022. Would the Bills receiving corp be any different if Davis had a few more yards and finished 32nd? Did KC having the 29th (Kelce) and 32nd (Rice) really mean that they were better than the Bills receivers in 2022? The Bills receiving corp may very well such even if they have two top 32 receivers. On the other hand, if by some miracle they finish with a top 10 receiver and a couple in the upper 30s or lower 40s they will be perfectly fine. Agreed. It must be very easy to just invent such criteria out of thin air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey152 Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 10 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Right so your response to that was extremely predictable and shows that you didn't ask that question in good faith. For the record, yes we obviously could have afforded Hopkins, at the expense of other players of course. But we chose to prioritize other positions instead. Which is the whole point of this conversation. We have repeatedly prioritized other positions over WR and it has repeatedly cost us. Imagine if Hopkins was in Sherfield's spot against the Chiefs. Think that might have made a difference? Ah but for you that example doesn't count. Because of reasons. But that is where you are wrong... We are spending 1/6th of our cap on WR this season. If we had Hopkins, we would have never gotten under the cap this year. Just so I am clear, they brought Hopkins in. They talked to him, and I am sure they ran numbers. So I am just supposed to take it from you, an armchair GM...that they "COULD HAVE" had Hopkins, but they chose not because they couldn't afford it, but because they don't care about WR enough? Do you hear yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 2 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: And 18 Million this year with a 12 million dead cap hit... We have $10M in cap space right now. Daquan Jones + Epenesa + MVS is another $9M right there. Plenty of other moves that could be made too. Don't say it wasn't affordable. The Bills intentionally chose to prioritize other positions over Hopkins. That's the simple reality. They tried signing Arik Armstead to the same money Jacksonville gave him. The pattern is obvious and nobody is going to take you seriously if you don't even acknowledge it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey152 Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Just now, HappyDays said: We have $10M in cap space right now. Daquan Jones + Epenesa + MVS is another $9M right there. Plenty of other moves that could be made too. Don't say it wasn't affordable. The Bills intentionally chose to prioritize other positions over Hopkins. That's the simple reality. They tried signing Arik Armstead to the same money Jacksonville gave him. The pattern is obvious and nobody is going to take you seriously if you don't even acknowledge it. So you would trade all of our cap space, Jones, Epenesa and MVS for Hopkins? Let me ask this another way...If Hopkins was a great deal, why did he end up on the Titans? Why didn't the Chiefs sign him, for example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: And 18 Million this year with a 12 million dead cap hit... Can't afford it. They could afford it. you are confused on the definition of could. I have linked it below to help. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/could# They didn’t want to. Which is the point, as @HappyDays said. Your cute stat of 1/6th of the cap invested to WR notwithstanding (including a player no longer on the roster is by definition not an investment to the position on the roster). Besides, they had no idea they were going to trade Diggs in the summer of 23. They had just extended him, they clearly wouldn’t have done that if they thought they were gonna eat his cap hit in a season. Bad take palooza continues. Anyway, you were clearly a fan of the “spend the same cap space on bums like Harty/Sherfield to recreate Hopkins in the aggregate,” approach last year. They are trying the same experiment writ large this year, with the same predictably crappy results. Edited July 22 by FireChans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 19 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: you realize that the Bills would only throw the ball like 300 times if that happened, right? Considering those guys combined for over 400 targets, I realize you pulled that number out of your ass. Those are 8 of the top 9 receiving options for next season (the other being the 8th WR taken in the draft) and every single one of them has to exceed last season’s production just to have a satisfactory year. How likely does it seem that this will happen? Just to put this into perspective, Tyreek Hill had 1800 yards and 13 TDs last year. The top 3 receivers for the Bills combined had 1900 yards and 8 TDs. Diggs and Davis had 1900 and 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Just now, Mikey152 said: So you would trade all of our cap space, Jones, Epenesa and MVS for Hopkins? Good, now we're getting somewhere. Now you're understanding that it isn't a matter of affordability, it's a matter of choice. To answer your question - yes, unequivocally. I'm still waiting for a single defensive lineman to make a difference in a post-wildcard playoff game. Hopkins I know for a fact would be a difference maker. 2 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: Let me ask this another way...If Hopkins was a great deal, why did he end up on the Titans? Why didn't the Chiefs sign him, for example? The Chiefs made a mistake not signing him, this was obvious by the midpoint of their season. We have an owner more willing to spend money than the Hunts so it is a bigger black mark on our FO than it is on theirs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 5 hours ago, Mikey152 said: I don't think they could do that this season without SEVERELY handicapping themselves in other ways...either trading next years first pick (at least) or maybe even two, and in the case of Aiyuk they would also need to structure a contract that severely hampers what they can do in coming seasons (and this one, if we are honest). Rob Peter to pay Paul. They already spend a ton on WR in both money and assets. Getting a top WR isn't so important that you just tank your team. They likely would have just done more to keep Diggs in that case...that was the best case scenario. Maybe for the fans...but on the field? Anybody they got in a later round wasn't going to be as good as those guys this season...and they wouldn't have the pick from that round to boot. I guess that I don’t care about preserving for the future. They are preserving to get a number 1 anyways. It’ll just be a year from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: I guess that I don’t care about preserving for the future. They are preserving to get a number 1 anyways. It’ll just be a year from now. I think Beane is actually afraid the Bills are gonna be picking as high as 15 or so in 2025. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 12 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Good, now we're getting somewhere. Now you're understanding that it isn't a matter of affordability, it's a matter of choice. To answer your question - yes, unequivocally. I'm still waiting for a single defensive lineman to make a difference in a post-wildcard playoff game. Hopkins I know for a fact would be a difference maker. The Chiefs made a mistake not signing him, this was obvious by the midpoint of their season. We have an owner more willing to spend money than the Hunts so it is a bigger black mark on our FO than it is on theirs. You want examples of D linemen doing so, I’ll offer two names: Chris Jones Aaron Donald Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Just now, oldmanfan said: You want examples of D linemen doing so, I’ll offer two names: Chris Jones Aaron Donald Thanks. We were talking about Daquan Jones and AJ Epenesa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 12 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I guess that I don’t care about preserving for the future. They are preserving to get a number 1 anyways. It’ll just be a year from now. Interesting philosophies. Some will sell out to get one Lombardi then have things fall apart due to cap issues and such. Some want to be competitive on a yearly basis and win that way. Not sure either is right or wrong. 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: Thanks. We were talking about Daquan Jones and AJ Epenesa. 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: Thanks. We were talking about Daquan Jones and AJ Epenesa. still waiting for a single defensive lineman to make a difference in a post-wildcard playoff game. Your words. Thought you were talking in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 (edited) 22 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Interesting philosophies. Some will sell out to get one Lombardi then have things fall apart due to cap issues and such. Some want to be competitive on a yearly basis and win that way. Not sure either is right or wrong. Yes yes, we have heard “win now and win in the future” as Beano’s philosophy for 4-5 seasons. That philosophy only works if you win now. We are now into the fifth season of Josh Allen’s dominant era, and the 7th of his career and we have played in one conference title game in a blow out loss. It might be time to double down and try to get one as fast as possible. For all we know, Josh starts to fall apart at 30 and our window snaps shut. Edited July 22 by FireChans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Just now, FireChans said: Yes yes, we have heard “win now and win in the future” as Beano’s philosophy for 4-5 seasons. That philosophy only works if you win now. We are now into the fifth season of Josh Allen’s dominant era, and the 7th of his career and we have played in one conference title game in a blow out loss. It might be time to double down and try to get one as fast as possible. For all we know, Josh starts to fall apart at 30 and our window snaps shut. You’re such a cheerful person. For all we know this WR corps does fine, Josh thrives under Brady and we’re all at the parade in February. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 39 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: You’re such a cheerful person. For all we know this WR corps does fine, Josh thrives under Brady and we’re all at the parade in February. It’s certainly possible. If it doesn’t, we can make the WR group even worse, and say “maybe this is the year.” Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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