I'm really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better

[Beast]

Getting rid of Diggs was the right move but what they did after obviously was not. 

[VW82]

I mean, i'm not surprised this thread was bumped because people around here will do ANYTHING to deflect from bad QB play, but the main reason Bills lost this game was Allen playing his worst half of football in four years. 

 

We had guys open all half and Josh just missed them. He missed them for long TDs. He missed them on crossing routes. He missed them on out routes. He had multiple dropped INTs. He bailed early on some clean pockets. He was late throwing the football. His timing was off. His decision making was off...

 

And yes, there were some drops and extremely difficult catches not made on poorly placed balls.. Yes, Brady got conservative after seeing Josh crap the bed for two straight quarters. Yes, we need a true #1 to truly compete for a SB. 

 

It was only seven months ago when we were in cap hell and in need of a reset year. Rome wasn't built in a day, etc. This game was not the fault of this WR group.

[mjt328]

It will be interesting to see what the commentators who watch All-22 say about this.  Defenses have clearly adjusted to what Joe Brady was doing in Weeks 1-3.  Hopefully he finds the answers quickly, or we may be looking at another mid-season OC firing.  

 

I'm noticing much less motion and movement, which makes me think the Bills are seeing more zone coverage than man coverage.  The short stuff isn't there anymore, which means we SHOULD be able to make plays downfield.  I'm just baffled those shots are somehow going to... Mack Hollins (?)... who is apparently terrible at tracking the deep ball.  We tried a couple comeback/back-shoulder throws in the 2nd half (one which led to the touchdown).  But those aren't typically high-percentage plays we can count on.  Where is Curtis Samuel down the field?  Everything is a gadget or screen.  Why aren't Dalton Kincaid or Dawson Knox (he is still on the team right?) able to make plays against linebackers.  

 

Not sure we need to make a splash for Davante Adams or some other diva #1.  Do our guys suck that bad?  Or is it just poor utilization?  I just don't understand how other coordinators can figure out ways to get people open, and Josh Allen is always staring down the field at nothing.  This was true last year with Stefon Diggs in the lineup anyway.

 

[without a drought]

So quietly, I didn't even notice.

 

Wait, is this like the tree falls in a forest thing?

[JerseyBills]

13 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Diggs had more yards than all the Bills WR's combined.

 

He also had more catches than all the Bills WR's combined.

 

He did this on 8 targets.

 

The Bills WRs had 18.

 

Did you watch the game?

you are correct man, didn't realize it was that lopsided. I guess I just didn't feel Diggs impact, I certainly felt the lack of talent on our end, Coleman def has potential, Samuel is a ghost, Hollins is a JAG, MVS barely played, Shakir was missed...

 

I just expected more from Kincaid,Knox and the PA working effective off the run game

 

Again, I still don't believe makes a big difference vs his distraction.. 

 

I'm finally warming up to the fact we do need a true WR1. Thought the everybody eats approach would work and it has for 13/20 quarters but that isn't good enough w Josh at QB.. 

[FireChans]

Just now, JerseyBills said:

you are correct man, didn't realize it was that lopsided. I guess I just didn't feel Diggs impact, I certainly felt the lack of talent on our end, Coleman def has potential, Samuel is a ghost, Hollins is a JAG, MVS barely played, Shakir was missed...

 

I just expected more from Kincaid,Knox and the PA working effective off the run game

 

Again, I still don't believe makes a big difference vs his distraction.. 

 

I'm finally warming up to the fact we do need a true WR1. Thought the everybody eats approach would work and it has for 13/20 quarters but that isn't good enough w Josh at QB.. 

You didn't notice his impact because a WR routinely getting open and making catches for first downs is normal for most NFL teams.

 

The Bills don't do that because they have the dregs of the position.

 

I don't care if we have a JJ-type WR.  It would be nice, but its not necessary.

 

What is necessary is to have some good players playing WR that the defenses gameplan for.  How many seconds, minutes or hours do you think the Texans spent gameplanning for Mack Hollins? It doesn't matter, because the answer is the same. Zero.

[BigDingus]

4 minutes ago, VW82 said:

I mean, i'm not surprised this thread was bumped because people around here will do ANYTHING to deflect from bad QB play, but the main reason Bills lost this game was Allen playing his worst half of football in four years. 

 

We had guys open all half and Josh just missed them. He missed them for long TDs. He missed them on crossing routes. He missed them on out routes. He had multiple dropped INTs. He bailed early on some clean pockets. He was late throwing the football. His timing was off. His decision making was off...

 

And yes, there were some drops and extremely difficult catches not made on poorly placed balls.. Yes, Brady got conservative after seeing Josh crap the bed for two straight quarters. Yes, we need a true #1 to truly compete for a SB. 

 

It was only seven months ago when we were in cap hell and in need of a reset year. Rome wasn't built in a day, etc. This game was not the fault of this WR group.

 

You're not allowed to blame Josh. You have to go down a checklist of everything else before even mentioning his awful play. 

 

I'm glad I had to go into work, as what I watched left me SHOCKED with how bad he was playing. 

 

He still looks like he's playing nervous in big emotional games (no, I don't care what he's done in WC playoff games, so don't bother). Even though we KNOW his accuracy was garbage this game, we have to focus in on a handful of plays where receivers weren't open, getting enough separation and what Brady could've done instead. 

 

But Allen is supposed to be a top 1 or 2 QB, right? He's better than Lamar & Burrow! Apparently Mahomes "passed the torch" to Allen as the number QB in the league. Yet he couldn't hit a single pass when it mattered, had 21 incompletions, bailed on good pockets, made poor decisions, and we're supposed to not call it out because we attached our team's identity to him. 

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, VW82 said:

but the main reason Bills lost this game was Allen playing his worst half of football in four years. 

 

This is quite the overreaction. No doubt Allen was off his game in the 1st half but he also got zero help from his pass catchers. Zero. And you know QBs aren't going to be at their very best for all 68 quarters in a season. Other players are allowed to make a play.

 

And how about the 2nd half? Allen performed at his usual level and our offense still couldn't take advantage of multiple gifts handed to us by the defense. The main reason we lost is what everybody reasonable knew coming into the season - we don't have a single starting caliber outside WR. Hollins lost the ball on two separate deep shots. Coleman can't separate. Shakir is a slot WR. MVS is a vertical decoy. And so defenses are doing the obvious thing, crowding the middle and daring us to beat them outside, and we just can't do it.

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is quite the overreaction. No doubt Allen was off his game in the 1st half but he also got zero help from his pass catchers. Zero. And you know QBs aren't going to be at their very best for all 68 quarters in a season. Other players are allowed to make a play.

 

And how about the 2nd half? Allen performed at his usual level and our offense still couldn't take advantage of multiple gifts handed to us by the defense. The main reason we lost is what everybody reasonable knew coming into the season - we don't have a single starting caliber outside WR. Hollins lost the ball on two separate deep shots. Coleman can't separate. Shakir is a slot WR. MVS is a vertical decoy. And so defenses are doing the obvious thing, crowding the middle and daring us to beat them outside, and we just can't do it.

First half was way more on Allen than anyone, it’s not really close either.  2nd up was the OL.  Blaming the pass catchers for terrible throw after terrible throw combined with bad decisions is just not a fair recap of the first half.  
 

The receiver room still does need help, it doesn’t change that.  But that was the worst I’ve seen Allen play since his first game as a rookie.  We also missed Shakir more than anyone could imagine because Samuel is utterly useless.  
 

[Coach Tuesday]

16 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I'm finally warming up to the fact we do need a true WR1. 

… and there it is.  /thread.

[HappyDays]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

First half was way more on Allen than anyone, it’s not really close either.  2nd up was the OL.  Blaming the pass catchers for terrible throw after terrible throw combined with bad decisions is just not a fair recap of the first half.  

 

Hollins is ridiculously wide open on a busted coverage, walk in TD. Allen just throws it up almost like a punt because it's such an easy completion. Hollins completely fails to track the ball for, again, a walk in TD.

 

Allen escapes the pocket and does a classic roll to the right and throw a bullet to an open pass catcher for a big 3rd down conversion. Unfortunately that pass catcher was Kincaid and he didn't lock in the catch.

 

That is two big game changing plays. And that's just the plays that had a chance to be made. More often than not Allen was clutching the ball waiting for someone to come open and it wasn't happening. All of the wide view replays showed that WRs were not separating.

 

There are times that Allen plays like the best QB in NFL history and in those moments the offense might be unstoppable no matter who else is out there. But that can't be the identity of the team. The offense needs to be able to function when Allen has a less than stellar half. When we get the ball handed to us inside the red zone down by 3, we need to be able to punch in a TD, or at least pick up a single yard. On 1st and 10 at midfield down by 3, we can't give all the momentum back to Houston.

 

Allen having a bad (for him) half of football does not excuse the entire operation, and that operation starts with the nobodies that we're lining up outside.

[nedboy7]

30 minutes ago, Beast said:

Getting rid of Diggs was the right move but what they did after obviously was not. 

 

This is a fair statement. 

[VW82]

26 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is quite the overreaction. No doubt Allen was off his game in the 1st half but he also got zero help from his pass catchers. Zero. And you know QBs aren't going to be at their very best for all 68 quarters in a season. Other players are allowed to make a play.

 

And how about the 2nd half? Allen performed at his usual level and our offense still couldn't take advantage of multiple gifts handed to us by the defense. The main reason we lost is what everybody reasonable knew coming into the season - we don't have a single starting caliber outside WR. Hollins lost the ball on two separate deep shots. Coleman can't separate. Shakir is a slot WR. MVS is a vertical decoy. And so defenses are doing the obvious thing, crowding the middle and daring us to beat them outside, and we just can't do it.

 

I don't think it's an overreaction at all. He was really bad in that first half. I'm sure someone will do an all 22 analysis that will help explain why he was bad and justifiably shift some of the blame, but much of the decision making and accuracy issues were on him. 

 

Yes, the receiver group could have helped him out more, and a better group would have. But calling out Hollins because he had to do a 180 going full speed on a crossing route or get completely turned around and have to change direction on a go route in a dome to locate poorly thrown balls isn't it. Josh also had Kincaid for a would be TD but instead gift wrapped a badly underthrown INT that was luckily dropped. 

 

Bills have above average OL, TE, and RB groups. They have a top QB. Their WR group is poor, and without Shakir it's really poor. Again, we had to do a lot of cap gymnastics just to get to this point. You can't have everything, and some weeks it's going to bite you. Not this week - this week was on Josh.    

Edited 22 hours ago by VW82

[Ethan in Cleveland]

22 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is quite the overreaction. No doubt Allen was off his game in the 1st half but he also got zero help from his pass catchers. Zero. And you know QBs aren't going to be at their very best for all 68 quarters in a season. Other players are allowed to make a play.

 

And how about the 2nd half? Allen performed at his usual level and our offense still couldn't take advantage of multiple gifts handed to us by the defense. The main reason we lost is what everybody reasonable knew coming into the season - we don't have a single starting caliber outside WR. Hollins lost the ball on two separate deep shots. Coleman can't separate. Shakir is a slot WR. MVS is a vertical decoy. And so defenses are doing the obvious thing, crowding the middle and daring us to beat them outside, and we just can't do it.

You picked the wrong week to defend Allen. He was terrible this week.  He has little to no help but he was awful.  Probably should have had at least two INTs. 

[<bills4life>]

Yeah after week 5 I’m really loving this wr room too. 😂 

[Green Lightning]

Thread not aging well...

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

This is not a group of Wr who scare anyone.

 

Josh can miss open plays yeah and he wasn’t on..I said he crapped the bed in another thread. 

 

But the Big plays that he did make and failed to be caught by Hollins are game changers ..

 

I can remember more big game changing plays not made then a crosser Josh missed to be honest and yeah he missed a lot..

 

 

Edited 22 hours ago by loveorhatembillsfan4life

[Warriorspikes51]

This thread is making us all look like chumps!

[Alphadawg7]

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Hollins is ridiculously wide open on a busted coverage, walk in TD. Allen just throws it up almost like a punt because it's such an easy completion. Hollins completely fails to track the ball for, again, a walk in TD.

 

Allen escapes the pocket and does a classic roll to the right and throw a bullet to an open pass catcher for a big 3rd down conversion. Unfortunately that pass catcher was Kincaid and he didn't lock in the catch.

 

That is two big game changing plays. And that's just the plays that had a chance to be made. More often than not Allen was clutching the ball waiting for someone to come open and it wasn't happening. All of the wide view replays showed that WRs were not separating.

 

There are times that Allen plays like the best QB in NFL history and in those moments the offense might be unstoppable no matter who else is out there. But that can't be the identity of the team. The offense needs to be able to function when Allen has a less than stellar half. When we get the ball handed to us inside the red zone down by 3, we need to be able to punch in a TD, or at least pick up a single yard. On 1st and 10 at midfield down by 3, we can't give all the momentum back to Houston.

 

Allen having a bad (for him) half of football does not excuse the entire operation, and that operation starts with the nobodies that we're lining up outside.

That Hollins play was as much on Allen if not more.  You absolutely do not over throw it to his OUTSIDE shoulder forcing the WR to adjust on an over the shoulder throw.  
 

That ball needs to go inside and didn’t need to go that far.  It was as easy a throw as it gets for any QB and Allen made it difficult and still was too far.  
 

Hollins could have adjusted better, but the point is the pass never should have been so bad that he had to even adjust.  He was wide open by 10 yards.  
 

Both are at fault, but Allen is more at fault.  Then on the same drive Hollins is again wide open for an easy TD on a post inside and he locks in on Coleman and just chucks it out of bounds in end zone to Coleman.

 

It’s not like the pass catchers didn’t make mistakes too.  But to pretend Allen wasnt the worst player on the field in the first half is just not accurate.  And I LOVE Allen, but I’m not gonna be bias and give him a pass for his absolutely terrible play that half.  Worst since his first game as a rookie.  

Edited 22 hours ago by Alphadawg7

[Coach Tuesday]

4 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

You picked the wrong week to defend Allen. He was terrible this week.  He has little to no help but he was awful.  Probably should have had at least two INTs. 

He had a bad game but he made enough plays to win the game.  The WRs literally only made one play today - one.