I'm really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

This is fair, but the Dolphins WRs are objectively great and the Chiefs/Pats WR's were objectively not great.

 

There's really two sides to this equation.

 

1. Can the Bills run an enough good enough to win a Superbowl with this WR crew?

 

- Early returns say yes. The offense has been humming thus far, and Brady is in his bag and Josh is playing really excellent. Long season, but plenty to be optimistic about.

 

2. Is this WR crew considered "good" by NFL standards

 

- This is still very debateable. Illustrated below.

 

Here are the top 30ish WR's on the list this season by yardage.

 

Nabers

Collins

Lamb

Rice

Jennings

JJ

Metcalf

Godwin

Smith

Pierce

Chase

Adams

Jamo

St Brown

MHJ

Reed

Hill

Robinson

BTJ

Olave

Waddle

JSN

Reynolds

Pickens

Mooney

Shaheed

(Shakir)

Moore

Diggs

Tolbert

Odunze

Meyers

Wilson

Flowers

 

That list is in receiving yards. A very imperfect stat. But how many players on that list do you think Shakir and co. are better than?

Easily the most important takeaway from this list is that Shakir has more yards than Diggs.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

See above. I just want to know, who on that list is below Shakir or Coleman or MVS or Mack right now?

 

For example, If your opinion is that Shakir and Coleman are both top 15 guys on this list, then its totally fair to think this group is good.

 

Having to have two top 15 WR's on a team seems like a pretty high standard for "good" receiving core. That seems more like a standard for "great" or "elite" receiving core.

 

Going by receiving yards seems a bit silly at the moment given the Bills are near the league bottom in attempts. And they are not in the league bottom because of drops or a poor passing game. They have been extremely efficient. They just haven't needed to pass at the usual rate. 

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, Simon said:

At #1 and #2, yes they are probably below the league norm right now(with the caveat that Coleman could change that before year's end).

But Samuel is better than most (if not all) #3's, Hollins is better than most #4s and MVS is better than most #5s.

I can get that.

 

Where the debate gets tricky is "is the gap between Coleman/Shakir and league average 1,2's bigger or more meaningful than the gap between our 3,4,5 and the league average ones?  And that is going to be different in 1-2 heavy offenses vs systems like the Bills are currently running.

 

And just FYI, I didn't include Samuel because of his injury. I think if he can get healthy, he will be our #1 or 2 or 3 depending on the day but he's seeing the least amount of snaps at WR currently. His role has not been WR3 in this offense thus far but pre-season I thought he would be number one.

13 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Having to have two top 15 WR's on a team seems like a pretty high standard for "good" receiving core. That seems more like a standard for "great" or "elite" receiving core.

 

Going by receiving yards seems a bit silly at the moment given the Bills are near the league bottom in attempts. And they are not in the league bottom because of drops or a poor passing game. They have been extremely efficient. They just haven't needed to pass at the usual rate. 

I had to copy the list form somewhere, I just said receiving yards so I didn't have to explain why some guys like Kupp or Nacua or AJ Brown aren't on the list.

[Simon]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Where the debate gets tricky is "is the gap between Coleman/Shakir and league average 1,2's bigger or more meaningful than the gap between our 3,4,5 and the league average ones?

 

Yeah, that's pretty much what it's about if you want to compare them to rooms around the league.

From this chair it looks so subjectively close that choosing a "side" is splitting hairs, imo.

My guess is that would be the case for about 20-25 teams all occupying the middle ground and then a handful that might stand out on either end.

I'd place the Bills smack dab in the middle of those 20ish average teams, with some potential to move up a bit if Coleman develops and Samuel gets healthy.

[BillsVet]

 

3 hours ago, eball said:

Incorrect, in particular because you are limiting your comment to WRs.  Kincaid gets down the field.  Cook gets down the field (even though he drops it).  Coleman's TD was down the field.

 

The Bills' passing game is clearly designed to give Josh some "easy answers" without waiting for deep routes to develop.  KC runs the same damn thing!  Are they limiting their strength at QB too?

 

The modern NFL demands quick plays...the Bills are adapting to that, not fighting against it.  I'll take 75+% Josh with a 7-0 TD/INT ratio, making some "Superman" plays here and there when he has to, every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

I watched the Giants/Cowboys game last night, and saw Jones force feed "true WR1" Nabers the ball 11 or 12 times for over 100 yards.  The Giants still didn't score a TD and lost a game in which they held Dallas to 20 points.

 

Sometimes I think many of you are just rooting for your fantasy football stats...

 

I haven't played fantasy football in 10 years.  It's boring to me.    

 

Point is, the way the WR/TE are being used is reflected in their YPC...which is about 11.5.  For a TE, that's OK but for an outside WR that's dismal.  

 

They're throwing short and taking what the defense gives them.  Great.  Many in this thread expect that to remain the same...why exactly?  Why would a DC just keep letting a successful offense keep right on doing what's worked against previous opponents?  

 

BTW, are you comparing Daniel Jones and the NY Giants to Josh Allen and the Buffalo Bills?  Those 2 teams?  Come on dude.   

 

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Spreading the ball around is a negative somehow.

 

Aside from maybe GB, there isn't a team in the NFL taking this approach on offense.  And given that Buffalo hasn't been an offensive trend-setter after 2020, I doubt very much this will catch on.  Teams still are looking for a 1 and 2, signing some to big contracts.  What makes you think the opposite approach is going to be sustainable for an entire season?  

[Royale with Cheese]

15 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

 

I haven't played fantasy football in 10 years.  It's boring to me.    

 

Point is, the way the WR/TE are being used is reflected in their YPC...which is about 11.5.  For a TE, that's OK but for an outside WR that's dismal.  

 

They're throwing short and taking what the defense gives them.  Great.  Many in this thread expect that to remain the same...why exactly?  Why would a DC just keep letting a successful offense keep right on doing what's worked against previous opponents?  

 

BTW, are you comparing Daniel Jones and the NY Giants to Josh Allen and the Buffalo Bills?  Those 2 teams?  Come on dude.   

 

 

Aside from maybe GB, there isn't a team in the NFL taking this approach on offense.  And given that Buffalo hasn't been an offensive trend-setter after 2020, I doubt very much this will catch on.  Teams still are looking for a 1 and 2, signing some to big contracts.  What makes you think the opposite approach is going to be sustainable for an entire season?  

I have an entire reply with all the NFL offenses down this year and has been a trend for the last 2 years.  Reply to that thread.