I'm really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better

[BillsVet]

7 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I guess it's how you evaluate the production.

 

To exaggerate a bit, Dorsey offensive approach was to have Josh throw downfield to Diggs.  And if the OL wasn't giving Josh enough time to throw... well, it was on Josh to find a way to make it work.

 

Brady's approach is everyone eats.  The backs will both run and catch.  Josh will get some runs as well. Both Kincaid and Knox will get targets.  As will all five of the wideouts.  

 

I don't think our WR production is comparitively low because they suck.  I think their production is low by design.  The encouraging sign is that they've been efficient.  Josh has a good rating throwing to them and they haven't been dropping balls as often as our wideouts in the past.  They're effectively playing the role Brady is asking them to play.  

 

 

Offense is better schemed for the philosophy they developed this off-season post Diggs.  Off the top of my head, there are plays the stand out, notably the Cook TD catch early against Miami.  And they are attacking weaknesses...as in not throwing against Miami's corners and focusing on their safeties while running it on their front 7.  Or, going against Jags' M2M looks and beating that.  That's good stuff there.   

 

The Bills offense previously was focused on their top receiver, but they had little behind him.  Those determining that style was wrong are premature though.  Diggs got production for 4 season being the focal point without much receiving support.

 

I wouldn't characterize the WR's as they "suck" either.  They're just not downfield options, as evidenced by the 11.7 yards per catch.      

 

Now to find out whether this style is sustainable...and no one knows, but I expect safeties will eventually move up to play the run better and because their deep game (longest pass is 33 yards to Ty Johnson) is not there.  Perhaps by design.  I'm interested in how they respond as the season goes offensively, particularly if they don't get the big early lead like they did against Miami and Jacksonville. 

 

[Andrew Son]

15 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Thread about WRs- Yet you bring up a take on Spencer Brown to show how someone can have an incorrect take.  Everyone has incorrect takes.  Some are man enough to admit being wrong.  Some are not. 

 

You agreed with the notion that this is the worst WR unit we’ve had in 40+ years.  That’s in THIS thread.  

He's a whisker away from bringing up his legendary Robert Royal take

[NewEra]

Just started rewatching the game-  pretty much all of these short pass rac plays involved Hollins eliminating his man from the play.  Some plays- he eliminates 2

 

Hollins route picked the corner on Coleman’s TD as well. No contact,  but you can see the CB take a half step inside to avoid contact and changed his angle ever so slightly

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by NewEra

[GoBills!]

11 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Offense is better schemed for the philosophy they developed this off-season post Diggs.  Off the top of my head, there are plays the stand out, notably the Cook TD catch early against Miami.  And they are attacking weaknesses...as in not throwing against Miami's corners and focusing on their safeties while running it on their front 7.  Or, going against Jags' M2M looks and beating that.  That's good stuff there.   

 

The Bills offense previously was focused on their top receiver, but they had little behind him.  Those determining that style was wrong are premature though.  Diggs got production for 4 season being the focal point without much receiving support.

 

I wouldn't characterize the WR's as they "suck" either.  They're just not downfield options, as evidenced by the 11.7 yards per catch.      

 

Now to find out whether this style is sustainable...and no one knows, but I expect safeties will eventually move up to play the run better and because their deep game (longest pass is 33 yards to Ty Johnson) is not there.  Perhaps by design.  I'm interested in how they respond as the season goes offensively, particularly if they don't get the big early lead like they did against Miami and Jacksonville. 

 

Diggs is averaging 9.4 per catch he’s behind Shakir in all categories or tied. I think it’s a we all going to win together and have our games is the difference. 
 

Texans just got their teeth kicked in by Sam Darnold but don’t worry Diggs got his 12 looks and 10 catches. 

[Alphadawg7]

33 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Just started rewatching the game-  first play, pass to cook out of the backfield, Mack Hollins running a slant/pick taking out both defenders.  
 

 

 

 

Mack is making a significant positive impact on this team so far despite some peoples refusal to admit it.  He has made significant key blocks on the majority of our running and receiving TD's this season, he is catching his targets clean with soft hands, he is running good routes and his TD week 1 was a text book route.  

 

I am not surprised, its exactly what I said he would be for this team this year and understood the importance of such a roll in the system Brady wanted to run.  Its unfortunate others prefer to stick to their negative bias about him rather than appreciate the positive aspects and contributions he has had so far.  He has been one of my favorite players on the All-22, he is all over the field impacting the game in positive ways.  

Edited 8 hours ago by Alphadawg7

[Alphadawg7]

25 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

I wouldn't characterize the WR's as they "suck" either.  They're just not downfield options, as evidenced by the 11.7 yards per catch.      

 

 

The 11.7 ypc is not evident of their ability down field, its evident of the game flow and play calls that have been working like clockwork.  Josh isn't having any trouble connecting with guys down field outside of the 2 deep shots Allen just missed to a very open MVS that was on Allen, not the receivers.  

 

You want to have an inconsistent offense, focus on the deep ball, especially now.  And the YPC is down across the entire league as teams are playing a lot more to take that away.  You want to win consistently and in the postseason, then win up front, run the ball effectively, and have a great short to mid game because that will be over 95% of your plays every game.  All of that opens up better opportunities on the deeper throws compared to an offense (see Daboll and Dorsey) that tried to always push the ball downfield and couldn't execute a run game or short area passing attacks effectively.  

[BeastMaster]

It's so weird that the team seems to operate more efficiently and as more of a team when it's just a bunch of guys willing to do whatever is required and everyone is involved as opposed to one guy making sure he's getting the lion's share of the work and doesn't care about what's best for the team as a whole

[NewEra]

44 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Mack is making a significant positive impact on this team so far despite some peoples refusal to admit it.  He has made significant key blocks on the majority of our running and receiving TD's this season, he is catching his targets clean with soft hands, he is running good routes and his TD week 1 was a text book route.  

 

I am not surprised, its exactly what I said he would be for this team this year and understood the importance of such a roll in the system Brady wanted to run.  Its unfortunate others prefer to stick to their negative bias about him rather than appreciate to the positive aspects and contributions he has had so far.  He has been one of my favorite players on the All-22, he is all over the field impacting the game in positive ways.  

Pretty much every rac/short pass has Mac out there leading the way or setting legal picks.  His signing had lots of purpose.

Edited 7 hours ago by NewEra

[NickelCity]

The absence of Gabe Davis continues to jump off the screen at me as a major advantage this year. 

 

It's one thing to talk about his value as a 4th round pick, but man was he holding Josh back imo.

[Albany,n.y.]

4 hours ago, zow2 said:

When you have a QB as good as Allen, he will make all the receivers better for sure.  He raises everyone up.

They made a big deal on ESPN this morning when Allen said in his presser that "it's wonderful to have players who don't care about their stat line and TD's"  They said it was pretty much throwing Diggs under the bus and running him over.  It certainly wasn't malicious, but that's what the national media took away, that Diggs was really a pain in the a$$ for Josh and the offense.  Probably why they moved away from him late last season.

From his rookie season on, Josh has always raised up his WRs.  As a rookie, he made Robert Foster, an undrafted FA, look like a quality NFL receiver. Once the Bills brought in better WRs, Foster disappeared & has been a non-factor ever since.  He elevated John Brown in 2019, and then Stefon Diggs was brought in as a #1 and with Josh exceeded anything he did in Minnesota,  Jacksonville is now finding out that Gabe Davis without Josh is really a JAG as in Just a guy.  Now, the Bills are following KC's model when they traded Hill.  When you have a superstar at QB, you don't really need a superstar at WR.  When a WR leaves Josh & the Bills, he basically disappears from NFL relevance.   

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

The absence of Gabe Davis continues to jump off the screen at me as a major advantage this year. 

 

It's one thing to talk about his value as a 4th round pick, but man was he holding Josh back imo.

 

Agreed, its why I started a thread during the season last year that stated Shakir needs to get more of Davis's snaps back when that loser Dorsey was still the OC.  

 

Mack Hollins > Gabe Davis in this offense, and its not close.  

[Drew21PA]

I did feel we lost shakir last night on his TD - he got rocked a couple times like night. 
 

kid can take a hit 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

9 minutes ago, Drew21PA said:

I did feel we lost shakir last night on his TD - he got rocked a couple times like night. 
 

kid can take a hit 

 

He gets obliterated at least a few times per game

[Alphadawg7]

11 minutes ago, Drew21PA said:

I did feel we lost shakir last night on his TD - he got rocked a couple times like night. 
 

kid can take a hit 

 

I was so excited about this TD that I missed that hit live in the moment until I saw some people posting concerns in the game day thread about if he got hurt or not.  Then when I saw the replay I was like yikes that was no joke of a hit.

 

The dude is a tank, he just takes hits and bounces off people.  This is the kind of toughness this offense has lacked overall for a while.  Its why Beane talked so much about putting a team together that had more size that played more physical and are reliable pass catchers this year.  

[NewEra]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I was so excited about this TD that I missed that hit live in the moment until I saw some people posting concerns in the game day thread about if he got hurt or not.  Then when I saw the replay I was like yikes that was no joke of a hit.

 

The dude is a tank, he just takes hits and bounces off people.  This is the kind of toughness this offense has lacked overall for a while.  Its why Beane talked so much about putting a team together that had more size that played more physical and are reliable pass catchers this year.  

Such a banger.  Elusive.  Explosive.  Reliable.  Catches every pass.  While not recognized league wide yet, he’s a great weapon.  

[Meatloaf63]

13 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I'm encouraged what I've seen so far.  However, we've faced three pedestrian defenses and the Jags secondary is a JV squad at the moment.  There's been numerous times since 2020 where we needed a WR to get open in man coverage in the "gotta have it" situations near the end of games (I know he dropped it in the KC game).  Diggs was that guy 9 out of 10 times.  That's where the skill set lost with Diggs at concerns me.  We're going to be in some close games against some good defenses and that will be the real test of this new receiving "everybody eats" crew.

Diggs was not that guy last year. Inconvenient drops, some fumbles, and taking himself out on many plays including 3rd downs. Limited numbers, but Shakir was that receiver last year and is proving it wasn’t a fluke. 

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, BeastMaster said:

It's so weird that the team seems to operate more efficiently and as more of a team when it's just a bunch of guys willing to do whatever is required and everyone is involved as opposed to one guy making sure he's getting the lion's share of the work and doesn't care about what's best for the team as a whole

I don't think it's weird at all 

 

It's the NFL every player is extremely talented.. and coaches are extremely smart and good game planners 

 

When you're just focusing on one or two guys it's easier for a coach to take them away and destroy your game plan.. if you're willing to throw it at eight different guys every single week it makes a lot harder to defend and make your offense run more efficiently

[NickelCity]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I was so excited about this TD that I missed that hit live in the moment until I saw some people posting concerns in the game day thread about if he got hurt or not.  Then when I saw the replay I was like yikes that was no joke of a hit.

 

The dude is a tank, he just takes hits and bounces off people.  This is the kind of toughness this offense has lacked overall for a while.  Its why Beane talked so much about putting a team together that had more size that played more physical and are reliable pass catchers this year.  

 

He definitely felt it. You could see later in that quarter when he took a hit to the same quad (iirc). Gonna have some legit bruising imo.

[Meatloaf63]

3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I guess it's how you evaluate the production.

 

To exaggerate a bit, Dorsey offensive approach was to have Josh throw downfield to Diggs.  And if the OL wasn't giving Josh enough time to throw... well, it was on Josh to find a way to make it work.

 

Brady's approach is everyone eats.  The backs will both run and catch.  Josh will get some runs as well. Both Kincaid and Knox will get targets.  As will all five of the wideouts.  

 

I don't think our WR production is comparitively low because they suck.  I think their production is low by design.  The encouraging sign is that they've been efficient.  Josh has a good rating throwing to them and they haven't been dropping balls as often as our wideouts in the past.  They're effectively playing the role Brady is asking them to play.  

 

It’s also low as we have played close to a third of these games with an insurmountable lead. The reigns were pulled in the last two games quite early to be honest.

[strive_for_five_guy]

3 hours ago, NickelCity said:

The absence of Gabe Davis continues to jump off the screen at me as a major advantage this year. 

 

It's one thing to talk about his value as a 4th round pick, but man was he holding Josh back imo.

Gabe didn’t make you nervous against our defense last night?