I'm really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better

[Chaos]

Poor Aaron. 

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Dude, the head of the “Diggs was the problem crowd” is Beane and Josh Allen.  Take it up with them.  
 

 

I imagine more people than I will if the Texans outperform us in January.

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Ok- you’re right-  Josh is part of the problem. We should trade him too.

 

you’re just that guy. Carry on 

You're the one who said:

"He didn’t produce when we needed him most.  For whatever reasons, it doesn’t matter.  We need our best players to produce in the playoffs.  He didn’t."

That's pretty much the book on JA in the playoffs outside of the 13 seconds game. We needed him to run out the clock and score a TD against KC - he didn't do it. We needed him to show up and lead the team against the Bengals - he didn't do it.

 

Look, I think he's the 2nd best QB in football overall, but if you want to judge a player solely on how they perform "when we need them the most" and trade everyone who doesn't have monster games every time, then you're the one saying that about Allen, not me.

[Turbo44]

3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

I mean, he has a sub 87 passer rating in every playoff loss outside of 13 seconds and in half of his total playoff games, so if you take @Alphadawg7 argument that only the losses matter because the stats against loser teams like NE and Pittsburgh don't matter, then the argument that Josh is a great playoff QB doesn't hold up to that metric.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02/gamelog/post/

10 games, 21 td passes, 4 INTs, average of 273 pass yards and 53 rushing yards per game. 4 rushing yds, 1 receiving td. Highest playoff passing rating in NFL history. Josh is just fine in the playoffs 

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

You're the one who said:

"He didn’t produce when we needed him most.  For whatever reasons, it doesn’t matter.  We need our best players to produce in the playoffs.  He didn’t."

That's pretty much the book on JA in the playoffs outside of the 13 seconds game. We needed him to run out the clock and score a TD against KC - he didn't do it. We needed him to show up and lead the team against the Bengals - he didn't do it.

 

Look, I think he's the 2nd best QB in football overall, but if you want to judge a player solely on how they perform "when we need them the most" and trade everyone who doesn't have monster games every time, then you're the one saying that about Allen, not me.

No it’s not.  He produced vs Kc 13 seconds.  He produced last year vs Kc.  He’s produced in almost every other playoff game. Once you hit the playoffs every game is the games where we need him most.  
 

Not just the games we subsequently lose……as you are suggesting.  Diggs have very few great playoff games as a Bill.  Josh has several.  You’re trying to make a correlation based on grammar semantics between two players that aren’t comparable in the least.  

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

No it’s not.  He produced vs Kc 13 seconds.  He produced last year vs Kc.  He’s produced in almost every other playoff game. Once you hit the playoffs every game is the games where we need him most.  
 

Not just the games we subsequently lose……as you are suggesting.  Diggs have very few great playoff games as a Bill.  Josh has several.  You’re trying to make a correlation based on grammar semantics between two players that aren’t comparable in the least.  

I'm not arguing semantics at all. I'm arguing that if Diggs catches that ball, then this whole agenda from certain members of the board doesn't exist. Meanwhile, Josh had a pretty similar situation at the end of the game where if he makes a play, we win. If he doesn't, we lose. He didn't and we lost. I'm not saying it was solely his fault we lost the game, and I'm not even arguing it to the point that people are about Diggs' drop. Facts are facts

There were a ton of factors that went into us losing last year (injuries, defensive personnel & scheme), but at the end of the day Josh had the ball at the KC 26 on 2nd down with under 2 minutes to go and he didn't get it done. You want to act like if Diggs wasn't here we win that game? Ok. I think it's ridiculous.

[AlfaBill]

50 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

You're the one who said:

"He didn’t produce when we needed him most.  For whatever reasons, it doesn’t matter.  We need our best players to produce in the playoffs.  He didn’t."

That's pretty much the book on JA in the playoffs outside of the 13 seconds game. We needed him to run out the clock and score a TD against KC - he didn't do it. We needed him to show up and lead the team against the Bengals - he didn't do it.

 

Look, I think he's the 2nd best QB in football overall, but if you want to judge a player solely on how they perform "when we need them the most" and trade everyone who doesn't have monster games every time, then you're the one saying that about Allen, not me.

This may be the dumbest thing I’ve read in a long time. 

45 minutes ago, NewEra said:

No it’s not.  He produced vs Kc 13 seconds.  He produced last year vs Kc.  He’s produced in almost every other playoff game. Once you hit the playoffs every game is the games where we need him most.  
 

Not just the games we subsequently lose……as you are suggesting.  Diggs have very few great playoff games as a Bill.  Josh has several.  You’re trying to make a correlation based on grammar semantics between two players that aren’t comparable in the least.  

This guy thinks Josh should do EVERYTHING to win a game and no one else should. JA does like 80% of the heavy lifting and that not enough apparently. Diggs did squat. Period. Gabe at least had a game vs KC. 

Edited September 10 by AlfaBill

[Avisan]

7 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

I'm not arguing semantics at all. I'm arguing that if Diggs catches that ball, then this whole agenda from certain members of the board doesn't exist.

But he didn't.

 

You recognize that him not catching that ball matters, right?

[GASabresIUFan]

So how about those WRs.  Isn’t nice to have WRs who actually catch the ball when thrown to them? 12 catches on 14 targets for 152 yards and 2 TDs.  
 

Admittedly most were short to intermediate passes, but the YAC was excellent across the board.  Josh hit on 1 of 2 deeper passes and MVS was open on the miss but Josh miss fired on the throw.  
 

It’s one game but the everyone eats philosophy is off to a very good start.  
 

People throughout many threads have talked about our lack of an elite receiver that D coordinators want to stop.  Well the week 1 answer to that question was Kincaid.  That didn’t exactly work for the Cards.  They stopped Kincaid, but got beaten by everyone else.  
 

So who will Miami try to stop week 2?  I don’t think it matters.  Our offense runs through Josh. He is now free to hit the open guy.  That should scare the he.. out of the NFL.  

 

[BullBuchanan]

4 hours ago, Avisan said:

But he didn't.

 

You recognize that him not catching that ball matters, right?

You should read the next sentence you conveniently omitted. Context matters.

[Avisan]

8 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

You should read the next sentence you conveniently omitted. Context matters.

The ball got there.  His job is to catch it. He didn't. Josh did his job to the level of expectation commensurate with his compensation and his importance to the team far more often than Diggs did in the back half of the season.

 

Diggs dropped the ball at a crucial moment instead of stepping up the plate, then finished forcing his way off the team.

 

So yeah, of course the conversation is different if he catches that ball.  But he didn't.  That matters.

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, Avisan said:

The ball got there.  His job is to catch it. He didn't. Josh did his job to the level of expectation commensurate with his compensation and his importance to the team far more often than Diggs did in the back half of the season.

 

Diggs dropped the ball at a crucial moment instead of stepping up the plate, then finished forcing his way off the team.

 

So yeah, of course the conversation is different if he catches that ball.  But he didn't.  That matters.

I did it for you since apparently it was too hard.

 

12 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Meanwhile, Josh had a pretty similar situation at the end of the game where if he makes a play, we win. If he doesn't, we lose. He didn't and we lost. I'm not saying it was solely his fault we lost the game, and I'm not even arguing it to the point that people are about Diggs' drop. Facts are facts

There were a ton of factors that went into us losing last year (injuries, defensive personnel & scheme), but at the end of the day Josh had the ball at the KC 26 on 2nd down with under 2 minutes to go and he didn't get it done. You want to act like if Diggs wasn't here we win that game? Ok. I think it's ridiculous.

 

[Mat68]

12 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

I'm not arguing semantics at all. I'm arguing that if Diggs catches that ball, then this whole agenda from certain members of the board doesn't exist. Meanwhile, Josh had a pretty similar situation at the end of the game where if he makes a play, we win. If he doesn't, we lose. He didn't and we lost. I'm not saying it was solely his fault we lost the game, and I'm not even arguing it to the point that people are about Diggs' drop. Facts are facts

There were a ton of factors that went into us losing last year (injuries, defensive personnel & scheme), but at the end of the day Josh had the ball at the KC 26 on 2nd down with under 2 minutes to go and he didn't get it done. You want to act like if Diggs wasn't here we win that game? Ok. I think it's ridiculous.

Pretty deep in FG range.  Wasn't really a win or lose play.  I want Allen to throw to Shakir in that situation 100 out of 100 times.  Open in the end zone.  Defender got Dawkins in Allens lap to alter the throw.  If this play is what Diggs is still sour on then good riddance. 

[Motorin']

And back to the WR thread...

 

Mack Hollins looks more dynamic than Gabe Davis. The way he exploded across the face of the defender to catch the TD on the slant was something I don't think Gabe would have succeeded on...

 

At the very least, Mack is a vast improvement to Trent Sherfield. It was a crime that Sheffield was on the field during crunch time in the playoffs last year...

 

MVS is definitely faster than Gabe, and as the season goes on I think he will ramp up his deep threat targets. 

 

And Coleman looked pretty solid on the outside. 

 

So one thing that can be said about the Bills outside wr's, they have gotten bigger with Coleman 6'3"  213, Hollins 6'4" 220 and MVS 6'4" 205...

 

Beasley was 5'8" 174 Jon Brown was 5'10 178, McKitrick was 5'7" 174....

 

Now our two slot/ z wr's are 6' 195 and 5'11" 201...

 

It's big boy football this season. And with the cap space next year, we need to add a dynamic playmaker...

 

 

 

Edited September 10 by Motorin'

[Avisan]

9 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I did it for you since apparently it was too hard.

 

 

???????

 

"Josh did his job to the level of expectation commensurate with his compensation and his importance to the team far more often than Diggs did in the back half of the season."

 

Explain to me how this is not a response to a comparison pertaining to Diggs' and Allen's respective playoff performances, particularly as the conversation pertains to last season and how folks feel about Diggs/Allen in the aftermath.

[Kenosha2Buffalo]

Someone really said Josh doesn't perform in the playoffs lol ? 21 tds 4 ints... Yeah anyways, the new look "everyone ears" group is gonna be hard to stop. It's gonna be fun this year fellas 

[Doc]

And then if Josh had thrown Diggs the ball and Diggs didn't catch it, they'd be saying "he should have known he'd wouldn't catch it because he dropped a pass earlier in the frive."  

[Motorin']

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

And then if Josh had thrown Diggs the ball and Diggs didn't catch it, they'd be saying "he should have known he'd wouldn't catch it because he dropped a pass earlier in the frive."  

 

Diggs was well behind the sticks. I wanted Josh to throw it to him, but we don't know if the trailing db would have come up and made an immediate tackle for a short gain...

 

What I didn't like is that on the next play he had Shakir 1v1 at the sticks and never looked his way. I thought that was a missed opportunity to manipulate the db inside and hit Shakir for the 1st down on the side line, with the poss ability for Shakir to turn it up field for a bigger gain...

 

But the idea that Josh didn't show up in the playoffs is ridiculous. 

 

He's had 1320 yards and 10 TD's in four playoff losses since Diggs arrived.

 

Diggs had 197 yards and 1 TD in those same 4 playoff losses. 

[balln]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

And back to the WR thread...

 

Mack Hollins looks more dynamic than Gabe Davis. The way he exploded across the face of the defender to catch the TD on the slant was something I don't think Gabe would have succeeded on...

 

At the very least, Mack is a vast improvement to Trent Sherfield. It was a crime that Sheffield was on the field during crunch time in the playoffs last year...

 

MVS is definitely faster than Gabe, and as the season goes on I think he will ramp up his deep threat targets. 

 

And Coleman looked pretty solid on the outside. 

 

So one thing that can be said about the Bills outside wr's, they have gotten bigger with Coleman 6'3"  213, Hollins 6'4" 220 and MVS 6'4" 205...

 

Beasley was 5'8" 174 Jon Brown was 5'10 178, McKitrick was 5'7" 174....

 

Now our two slot/ z wr's are 6' 195 and 5'11" 201...

 

It's big boy football this season. And with the cap space next year, we need to add a dynamic playmaker...

 

 

 

MVS on the deep comeback route catch was so sexy . We haven’t had that since peak John brown. And mvs is twice the height 

[C.Biscuit97]

33 minutes ago, balln said:

MVS on the deep comeback route catch was so sexy . We haven’t had that since peak John brown. And mvs is twice the height 

I love MVS as a guy but wait until he has a monster drop. I wish it wasn’t true but there’s a reason 6’5” 4.4 guys who play with Rodgers and Mahomes bounce around.