Thurman#1 Posted August 17 Posted August 17 (edited) 38 minutes ago, FireChans said: What numbers do you have him producing this year? Rice had 79 for 938 and 7 TD’s. Are we thinking Coleman beats that? That's certainly within the range of reasonable possibility. Anywhere between probably 450 to 1050 yards are reasonable guesses at this point. Too early to know how they'll use him, how much he'll improve as the season proceeds, how many targets he'll get ... or too much of anything, really. My guess i he doesn't reach Rice's numbers but isn't all that far behind, myself. Hang on to your hat for this shocking prediction as well, I guess he starts somewhat slowly and improves as the season goes along. Nuts, I know, right? Edited August 17 by Thurman#1 1 Quote
GunnerBill Posted August 17 Posted August 17 39 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I didn't compare him as a player to Rice, I just said Keon doesn't have to open week 1 as "the guy" and can grow into a bigger role as the season goes on. I am confident the Bills did not draft him thinking his ability to get open is as limited as you and Marino are stating, so right away I know the Bills scouts and Beane likely don't agree with this assessment, and that is even further strengthened if you listen to Beane discuss Keon and what they liked about him. But, like anything else, they are just opinions until we see it on the field too, so doesn't make anyone right or wrong right now. With the bolded above, I don't agree that its "unrealistic" at this stage because he is already doing it against out DB's. If you want to say it's unrealistic for him to do it with a high frequency at this stage, then I would agree with that because that is true for most rookies. And that goes back to my point you responded to, he doesn't need to come out the gate as a Bonafide WR1 in this offense, he can grow and develop into that role as continues to develop as a player. But to say it's unrealistic for him to do it all is just not something I can agree with as I have already seen him do it. We will see...and I appreciate your perspective even if I am not aligned with it. I just think you are Marino are prematurely capping his ceiling more than you should be at this stage. He doesn't have to have GOAT potential to be a great WR for us either. Of course I mean to do it consistently in NFL games. Practice is what it is. I think it is unrealistic to expect him to do it consistently in actual NFL games at this stage. That isn't a ceiling cap either. It is a cap on what I think is realistic to expect as a rookie based on who he was in college and is right now. Of course we wouldn't be worrying about that so much if there were more viable NFL outside receivers on the roster. But we have one slot (Shakir), one flex guy (Samuel) and a career depth guy outside (Hollins). The pressure on Coleman as a rookie comes from what the team didn't do otherwise in the receiver room. 3 Quote
Thurman#1 Posted August 17 Posted August 17 18 hours ago, Meatloaf63 said: Couldn’t or wouldn’t? We’ll know in a few weeks if Diggs just gave up. Couldn't or wouldn't or didn't? And no, we really won't know that. We'll have some more info that could help us make better more educated attempts at understanding, but there'll likely still be a ton of unclarity still left. If he does really well this year, it could mean that he was dogging it for us. Or that the new OC didn't use him as well. Or that Allen wasn't throwing to him .... it'll only mean that he does well this year despite not doing so well the year before. This happens plenty in the NFL. 1 Quote
Alphadawg7 Posted August 17 Posted August 17 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Of course I mean to do it consistently in NFL games. Practice is what it is. I think it is unrealistic to expect him to do it consistently in actual NFL games at this stage. That isn't a ceiling cap either. It is a cap on what I think is realistic to expect as a rookie based on who he was in college and is right now. Of course we wouldn't be worrying about that so much if there were more viable NFL outside receivers on the roster. But we have one slot (Shakir), one flex guy (Samuel) and a career depth guy outside (Hollins). The pressure on Coleman as a rookie comes from what the team didn't do otherwise in the receiver room. My ceiling cap comment was based on our previous discussions, not on what you said about rookie expectations, which I agree with you on. And as I just mentioned above and in my previous comment, I don't disagree with you that its unrealistic to expect him to do those things consistently early as I think that is unrealistic for any rookie IMHO. But I do think Keon is in a good situation where he is not going to need to emerge as a primary target early either with guys around him like Kincaid, Shakir, Samuel, etc who can make plays and will all see healthy target shares as well taking pressure of Keon as he develops further throughout the season. Quote
Doc Brown Posted August 17 Posted August 17 7 hours ago, Chaos said: Has anyone compiled the offensive statistics with Dorsey last year compared to Brady? I would find that interesting. Brady Dorsey Games 9 10 Points 27.1 26.2 Total Yards 377.9 370.1 Touchdowns 27 30 TDs per drive 31.4% 31.2% Points per drive 46.5% 44.8% Passing attempts 34.2 35 Passing yards 221.4 253.6 Rushing attempts 36.8 25.4 Rushing Yards 161.2 116.5 Turnovers 9 18 2 5 Quote
Meatloaf63 Posted August 17 Posted August 17 6 hours ago, GunnerBill said: This is an exaggeration. Sure, it happened. But "many third downs" nah. We did not have many third downs where Stef went out and we had success passing the ball. I sat down last night bored so I pulled up and watched both Miami games last night from last year. The first Game may have been one of Diggs best games as a Bill. He did well the second game but nowhere near as the first game. What was obvious is Shakir in the second game did well whether Diggs was on or off and still performed after Davis was hurt. I have zero worries about Shakir this year. I also noticed that on several long attempts Diggs had zero separation made catches and got a PI call. Also for all the people claiming that Kingcade is only good for 5 to 10 yards, he had several catches 12 to 20 yards. His short game in the first 3/4’s of the season was play design, he is a threat further up the field than people are giving him credit for. It’s not an exaggeration, Diggs took himself out a lot more than you would expect your number one to do. I remember the rumor was he hurts his back. But what is a fact Shakir did well finding open spots on the field whether Diggs was playing or not. The real question is why did Diggs fall off like he did? Personally I think it was his attitude 1 Quote
Bill from NYC Posted August 17 Posted August 17 3 hours ago, NeverOutNick said: Watching NFL network and they’re talking about my boy Burton. Another guy I wanted the Bills to take 3rd round. But can’t fault them too much since he went before their pick Yeah, I posted about Burton before the draft. The thing is, when you have a great QB like Josh Allen, who needs a quality receiver late in round two when there are safeties to be had? 1 1 Quote
GunnerBill Posted August 17 Posted August 17 26 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said: I sat down last night bored so I pulled up and watched both Miami games last night from last year. The first Game may have been one of Diggs best games as a Bill. He did well the second game but nowhere near as the first game. What was obvious is Shakir in the second game did well whether Diggs was on or off and still performed after Davis was hurt. I have zero worries about Shakir this year. I also noticed that on several long attempts Diggs had zero separation made catches and got a PI call. Also for all the people claiming that Kingcade is only good for 5 to 10 yards, he had several catches 12 to 20 yards. His short game in the first 3/4’s of the season was play design, he is a threat further up the field than people are giving him credit for. It’s not an exaggeration, Diggs took himself out a lot more than you would expect your number one to do. I remember the rumor was he hurts his back. But what is a fact Shakir did well finding open spots on the field whether Diggs was playing or not. The real question is why did Diggs fall off like he did? Personally I think it was his attitude We did not have loads of success on third downs where Diggs was out. That was the point of dispute. Quote
Chaos Posted August 17 Posted August 17 52 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Brady Dorsey Games 9 10 Points 27.1 26.2 Total Yards 377.9 370.1 Touchdowns 27 30 TDs per drive 31.4% 31.2% Points per drive 46.5% 44.8% Passing attempts 34.2 35 Passing yards 221.4 253.6 Rushing attempts 36.8 25.4 Rushing Yards 161.2 116.5 Turnovers 9 18 Thank you very much. Seems pretty similar. Quote
Dr. Who Posted August 17 Posted August 17 2 minutes ago, Chaos said: Thank you very much. Seems pretty similar. Rushing yardage and turnovers are significantly different. 1 Quote
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 17 Posted August 17 32 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: Yeah, I posted about Burton before the draft. The thing is, when you have a great QB like Josh Allen, who needs a quality receiver late in round two when there are safeties to be had? I like Burton and hate that he is on Cincy. I do wonder if his character concerns scared the Bills off. I really wish they came out with multiple WRs from the draft. 2 Quote
Low Positive Posted August 17 Posted August 17 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I like Burton and hate that he is on Cincy. I do wonder if his character concerns scared the Bills off. I really wish they came out with multiple WRs from the draft. Burton has been great in camp. He's been getting first-team reps with Chase holding out. McDermott and his damn character requirements. If you cannot handle a locker room of huge egos and borderline criminals, you cannot be an NFL head coach. It's in the damn job description. 3 2 Quote
Meatloaf63 Posted August 17 Posted August 17 23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: We did not have loads of success on third downs where Diggs was out. That was the point of dispute. I have not studied the difference of conversation down and distance when he was in or he’s out. Don’t know if anyone has. So until that is done nobody can really comment on that. The only thing we can comment on is for what he was being paid, he took himself out too much. 27 minutes ago, Chaos said: Thank you very much. Seems pretty similar. Turnover distance and rushing are big differences. The rest is remarkably close. Quote
Meatloaf63 Posted August 17 Posted August 17 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Couldn't or wouldn't or didn't? And no, we really won't know that. We'll have some more info that could help us make better more educated attempts at understanding, but there'll likely still be a ton of unclarity still left. If he does really well this year, it could mean that he was dogging it for us. Or that the new OC didn't use him as well. Or that Allen wasn't throwing to him .... it'll only mean that he does well this year despite not doing so well the year before. This happens plenty in the NFL. Depends, if he’s not pulling himself out as much that will be a sign for sure. Watching the two Miami games, I was surprised at how little separation he got. Most catches the defender was all over him. But as I said in another post, the first Miami game was one of his best. So what happened then, was it Brady, Diggs, Allen? 30 million dollar question. 1 Quote
balln Posted August 17 Posted August 17 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Low Positive said: Burton has been great in camp. He's been getting first-team reps with Chase holding out. McDermott and his damn character requirements. If you cannot handle a locker room of huge egos and borderline criminals, you cannot be an NFL head coach. It's in the damn job description. Thats why they’ll always be what they are. Fringe conf champ game participants. They value character and culture. Wayyyyyyy tooo much. That’s why the took keon over anyone available at 28. They only want players that want to play in buffalo. While in a perfect world that’s ideal. It’s not a perfect world. They gotta get studs and diff makers. This draft has none of it. They’re all character guys and/ or projects Edited August 17 by balln 1 Quote
DrPJax Posted August 17 Posted August 17 On 6/23/2024 at 8:09 AM, JerseyBills said: Lets just start with the top 5 WRs, Bills just dropped a video yesterday or the day before , so pretty much confirmed our top 5.. Last year This year Diggs Coleman Davis Samuel Shakir Shakir Harty Hollins Sherfield MVS There's obviously a huge question mark with Coleman, as with any rookie WR but should be dynamic in this O. I'm huge on Shakir, I really think he's going to be a stud this year and eclipse 1k yards. Huge fan of Samuel, he does it all, you can put this guy anywhere, including the backfield and he's explosive and makes plays and that was on a terrible O with terrible QB play. Skys the limit, loved the signing. Hollins is interesting but he's an elite run blocker , which Brady has shown, we're running the ball, bottom line , and not a great year statistically last year but I could see him having his 22 season where he put up 57 rec 690 yards 4 TDs. This was Gabe his first 2 years and this is his replacement for much cheaper. Plus he's a certified leader.. MVS , yes the drops and statistically wasn't great in the regular season but you can argue he's the reason KC won the SB. In our game he had 62 yards, 17 more yards than Kincaid who was our top guy w 45 yards. Would've loved to have him in January last year. Made huge big , long catches. Meanwhile Diggs is dropping wide open TDs which win us that game.. And at 6 , Claypool, Hamler, Shorter etc will fight it out Bottom line , this is a much deeper WR group. Harty/Sherfield were busts, they were awful. And with Gabe injured vs KC, it showed how weak our depth was. No offense, but I never want to see Andy Isabella playing in a playoff game and that won't happen again with the depth added. Sherfield/Harty also had no business being out there. Obviously Coleman is a huge key to this group and puzzle but I see no reason he can't be the guy we expect him to be. Plus Kincaid year 2. Cook year 3. Upgraded RB room This is going to be a fun O to watch. Probably the best we've seen with Allen because of WR depth, elite RB/TE and Brady calling plays *Not to crap on Diggs, I really admire his game and intensity, I have him as my profile picture but the fact that Beane ate 30+ mil and took a future 2, clearly they thought he was just to disruptive in the locker room, as a leader. The Cincy game leaving his teammates, as a captain, speaks volumes. McBeane has built this team on family and doing your 1/11th on o and d and Diggs just didn't fit that culture. Good luck but good riddance QUIETLY IS THE OPERATIVE WORD! lol. , yep , people like mvs, claypool , cook have all been really quiet and one , if not the first two , won’t be hear so that’s about as quiet as it gets. 😊. Just kidding a little , but I called the claypool thing from day one if his signing. Bean has made some terrible calls/ chances , but this guy was a clown and never really was known for work ethic , just being a narcissist and diva. Mvs looking to be the second bad choice. Then adding these last two bodies , whivh I get are supposed to be camp guys , but if there are any injuries , who is Allen supposed to throw to or elevate? As the season gets closer , bean is looking like once again he refuses to take real steps to acquire more than just one actually good guy a year for Allen to throw to. Maybe Brady will be a genius play caller and creator , but will hold y praise till I see something actually look good against another team. 😊😎 Quote
HappyDays Posted August 17 Posted August 17 1 hour ago, Low Positive said: Burton has been great in camp. He's been getting first-team reps with Chase holding out. That isn't true? He's been WR6/7 in camp. Quote
Low Positive Posted August 17 Posted August 17 8 minutes ago, HappyDays said: That isn't true? He's been WR6/7 in camp. I don't know anything beyond what I read on Jungle Noise and hear on Moe Eggars' show. They are all really high on him and talk about how Chase holding in is a blessing in disguise because it's getting Burton more reps with Burrow. I'm in a pissy mood and overreacting all over this board this evening. Quote
Coach Tuesday Posted August 17 Posted August 17 1 hour ago, Low Positive said: Burton has been great in camp. He's been getting first-team reps with Chase holding out. McDermott and his damn character requirements. If you cannot handle a locker room of huge egos and borderline criminals, you cannot be an NFL head coach. It's in the damn job description. There is something to this. They seem to draft “high floor, lower ceiling” players outside of Round 1 which could be seen as insecurity about their own ability to coach players up. 1 1 Quote
Avisan Posted August 17 Posted August 17 22 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: There is something to this. They seem to draft “high floor, lower ceiling” players outside of Round 1 which could be seen as insecurity about their own ability to coach players up. Alternatively-- the Bills have an EXTREMELY high hit rate for draft picks, which plays into why they were still able to win the division last season despite having so many injuries to key starters Quote
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