I'm really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, BearNorth said:

Any regrets after watching Worthy today?

No

Brian Thomas Jr is the one who got away

[Warriorspikes51]

I think Cooper is going to have a huge game

 

if we can establish him as a consistent intermediate - deep threat in this offense over the next few games….

 

makes us even more difficult to defend

[Doc]

40 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

I think Cooper is going to have a huge game

 

if we can establish him as a consistent intermediate - deep threat in this offense over the next few games….

 

makes us even more difficult to defend

 

He should be there by the playoffs.

[Avisan]

13 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Look, I get that you don't like that Beane brought in a top WR like Cooper.  Someone who you should otherwise love considering he's a great player, not a diva and not a criminal.  And in the Bills' case, incredibly cheap.  So you invent something else. 

 

He's a huge addition to the team.  And he hasn't even reached his full potential in the offense yet.

I am thrilled we added Cooper to the team.  The price was cheap for a player of his caliber, and the more weapons, the better.

 

Still not the savior of the offense.  He fills the role that one of MVS/Claypool were unsuccessfully brought in to fill.  It's an important role, and it's worth noting that MVS has had some high-production games for New Orleans, so it isn't as though it was a particularly bad bet, just didn't work out.

 

Cooper has not been a #1 WR for the Bills, and that's okay.  Still a good addition to the squad.

[finn]

12 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

No

Brian Thomas Jr is the one who got away

Agree. This was the year to move up, not down. Last year was the year to move down, and the previous year, too. Elam was a swing and miss and LaPorta would have been available if Kincaid had been taken. Plus, Beane would have had the two fourth-rounders to work with. But hindsight makes it easy. Beane is doing just fine. 

[oldmanfan]

We are winning because Brady is running a master class in play calling.  And because we have perhaps the most physically gifted QB in history playing at the top of his game.  Glad they got Cooper but he is not the difference.

[GASabresIUFan]

13 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

No

Brian Thomas Jr is the one who got away

How?  He was drafted well before our pick.  Ladd McConkey is arguably the one who got away.  
 

Any argument that we could have moved up to get him

assumes that another team was willing to trade down.  Jax, who took Thomas at 23 had already traded down from 17 and the picks 18-22 were made by their original teams.

Edited 14 hours ago by GASabresIUFan

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Avisan said:

I am thrilled we added Cooper to the team.  The price was cheap for a player of his caliber, and the more weapons, the better.

 

Still not the savior of the offense.  He fills the role that one of MVS/Claypool were unsuccessfully brought in to fill.  It's an important role, and it's worth noting that MVS has had some high-production games for New Orleans, so it isn't as though it was a particularly bad bet, just didn't work out.

 

Cooper has not been a #1 WR for the Bills, and that's okay.  Still a good addition to the squad.

 

The Bills decided to move away from having (and forcing the ball to) a #1 WR to spreading it around based on matchups/defense's weaknesses.   As you said they tried filling a boundary receiver role with Claypool and MVS, but it didn't work, so they decided to find someone else.  And they were able to get the perfect addition to their team and philosophy in Cooper.  Maybe it's just lip service or the honeymoon phase, but I loved hearing him say he didn't care if he was targeted at all as long as they won, to add onto comments earlier that he's excited to play football again.

 

Is he the savior?  Hard to put that on him given he joined the team 1/3 of the way into the season and didn't have a full off-season or even training camp.  But his presence commands attention and opens things up on offense.

[Mr. WEO]

16 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Look, I get that you don't like that Beane brought in a top WR like Cooper.  Someone who you should otherwise love considering he's a great player, not a diva and not a criminal.  And in the Bills' case, incredibly cheap.  So you invent something else. 

 

He's a huge addition to the team.  And he hasn't even reached his full potential in the offense yet.

 

Wrong again doc.

 

I think he was a solid pickup.  Veteran presence with maybe a few ounces left in the tank.  Always been a guy with mediocre catch% and problem with dropping the ball...but I believe he's a good addition to the room.  Heck, why not?  Anything is better than Diggs (who you refused to believe or conceive that he would go out that way....despite all evidence presented to you early on that he would act out at some point). 

 

But with Cooper, you fell  compelled to  create this scenario where he's still a "top WR" but who, as such, is used as a decoy.  Compare him now to 2 other midseason "top WR" over 30 pickups:  Hopkins and Adams.  

 

Not decoys there to "draw coverage".  

 

Why mythologize Cooper's impact thus far?  It's not necessary. 

 

 

 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Wrong again doc.

 

I think he was a solid pickup.  Veteran presence with maybe a few ounces left in the tank.  Always been a guy with mediocre catch% and problem with dropping the ball...but I believe he's a good addition to the room.  Heck, why not?  Anything is better than Diggs (who you refused to believe or conceive that he would go out that way....despite all evidence presented to you early on that he would act out at some point). 

 

But with Cooper, you fell  compelled to  create this scenario where he's still a "top WR" but who, as such, is used as a decoy.  Compare him now to 2 other midseason "top WR" over 30 pickups:  Hopkins and Adams.  

 

Not decoys there to "draw coverage".  

 

Why mythologize Cooper's impact thus far?  It's not necessary. 

 

 

 

Hopkins is averaging less than 10 yards per game more than Cooper fyi. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFan said:

How?  He was drafted well before our pick.  Ladd McConkey is arguably the one who got away.  
 

Any argument that we could have moved up to get him

assumes that another team was willing to trade down.  Jax, who took Thomas at 23 had already traded down from 17 and the picks 18-22 were made by their original teams.

 

It would have taken a 3rd to move from the Bills' spot (28th overall) to 22nd as the Jags were eyeing BTJ at 23.  In hindsight yeah it would have been worth it.  But he was a polarizing prospect and giving up a 3rd or more (assuming any team in front of the Jags was willing to budge) was a tall order.

 

As for McConkey, he's primarily a slot WR.  They had that covered with Shakir and the FA signing of Samuel.

 

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Wrong again doc.

 

I think he was a solid pickup.  Veteran presence with maybe a few ounces left in the tank.  Always been a guy with mediocre catch% and problem with dropping the ball...but I believe he's a good addition to the room.  Heck, why not?  Anything is better than Diggs (who you refused to believe or conceive that he would go out that way....despite all evidence presented to you early on that he would act out at some point). 

 

But with Cooper, you fell  compelled to  create this scenario where he's still a "top WR" but who, as such, is used as a decoy.  Compare him now to 2 other midseason "top WR" over 30 pickups:  Hopkins and Adams.  

 

Not decoys there to "draw coverage".  

 

Why mythologize Cooper's impact thus far?  It's not necessary.

 

Cooper came off a 1,250 yard season last year with a revolving door of QBs and playing just 15 games.  A "few ounces left in the tank"?  LOL!

 

And If you're basing your premise on 1 game, you're already losing.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

We are winning because Brady is running a master class in play calling.  And because we have perhaps the most physically gifted QB in history playing at the top of his game.  Glad they got Cooper but he is not the difference.

I agree with all of this- but the bolded is where things get murky.  Just a like a football game, there usually isn’t one reason for a teams win or loss  Cooper isn’t THE difference but he’s certainly part of the difference.  
 

all these people stating that cooper is THE reason are part right, but not seeing the entire picture because they want to prove that their original point is correct, rather than just being honest with themselves.  It’s obvious that it’s more than JUST cooper, but he’s certainly plays a role in the offenses recent success

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFan said:

How?  He was drafted well before our pick.  Ladd McConkey is arguably the one who got away.  
 

Any argument that we could have moved up to get him

assumes that another team was willing to trade down.  Jax, who took Thomas at 23 had already traded down from 17 and the picks 18-22 were made by their original teams.

Ladd mcconkey is the one that got away if you’re a Georgia fan.  I’ll take Coleman over Ladd all day. 
 

on draft day, I was a Ladd fan over Keon.  Seeing how this season has progressed and Shakir playing 99% of his snaps in the slot, I don’t think we would get the same bang for the buck as LAC got.  Ladd is surrounded by all outside guys in his current situation.  He wouldn’t have put up nearly the same numbers in buffalo imo.  
 

Keon is 21 (Ladd 23) bigger, stronger, better blocker and better suited to play in Buffalo weather come playoffs, while bringing a different skill set to the offense.  Ladd is a baller and a future pro bowler in his current situation, I don’t see him as anyone that got away…. Even though that was my feeling on draft day. 

I’m confidant that I was wrong.  

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Hopkins is averaging less than 10 yards per game more than Cooper fyi. 

 

you have that exactly backwards:  after their trades, Cooper is averaging 38, Hopkins 48 ypg.---and 41% of Cooper's Bills yardage came in 1 game. 

 

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

It would have taken a 3rd to move from the Bills' spot (28th overall) to 22nd as the Jags were eyeing BTJ at 23.  In hindsight yeah it would have been worth it.  But he was a polarizing prospect and giving up a 3rd or more (assuming any team in front of the Jags was willing to budge) was a tall order.

 

As for McConkey, he's primarily a slot WR.  They had that covered with Shakir and the FA signing of Samuel.

 

 

Cooper came off a 1,250 yard season last year with a revolving door of QBs and playing just 15 games.  A "few ounces left in the tank"?  LOL!

 

And If you're basing your premise on 1 game, you're already losing.

 

One game??  His "one game" was vs. the Rams.  Then there are all the other games. 

 

This year, he's caught 50% of the balls thrown to him for under 500 yards. On the Bills,  230 yards--in 6 games (he couldn't answer the bell for 2 other games).   He's a much cheaper, lower output Gabe Davis at this point.

 

He is an asset though, as I have said.  Hopefully he comes to life in the playoffs and helps put them over the edge (SB appearance at least). 

[Doc]

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

One game??  His "one game" was vs. the Rams.  Then there are all the other games. 

 

This year, he's caught 50% of the balls thrown to him for under 500 yards. On the Bills,  230 yards--in 6 games (he couldn't answer the bell for 2 other games).   He's a much cheaper, lower output Gabe Davis at this point.

 

He is an asset though, as I have said.  Hopefully he comes to life in the playoffs and helps put them over the edge (SB appearance at least). 

 

I meant "one game" as in being used as a decoy against the Lions.  Against the Rams he was targeted a lot and helped the offense put up 42 points, which should be a win almost 100% of the time.

 

And he doesn't need to "come alive," just force DCs to give him extra attention.  Or not and pay the price.

Edited 12 hours ago by Doc

[Thurman#1]

Week 7: 19,

Week 8: 38

Week 9: 0,

Week 10: 0

Week 11: 37 

Week 12: Bye

Week 13: 27

Week 14: 32

Week 15: 32

 

They weren't worse when he was out. He's playing less than 50% of snaps when he's in.

 

He's not the reason they're better. Has he helped? Sure. But they've played great when he's out and great when he's off the field.

 

He hasn't been huge by any means. But nice? Yeah. Solid? Definitely. Useful, productive? Absolutely. But they've done very well with him off the field.

 

Like WEO, I hope, maybe even suspect, that he gets used more during the playoffs.

 

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Thurman#1

[Mr. WEO]

17 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I meant "one game" as in being used as a decoy against the Lions.  Against the Rams he was targeted a lot and helped the offense put up 42 points, which should be a win almost 100% of the time.

 

And he doesn't need to "come alive," just force DCs to give him extra attention.  Or not and pay the price.

 

He wasn't a decoy--he couldn't get open...against a suspect pass D.

 

But i get that you need to feel he has been the game changer since he got here.  

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

He wasn't a decoy--he couldn't get open...against a suspect pass D.

 

But i get that you need to feel he has been the game changer since he got here.  

 

And against a non suspect pass D the week before? 

 

And I get that you feel the need to denigrate a player you would otherwise love because Beane added him.  It's your MO.  Re-read what @BADOLBILZ said.

 

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

And against a non suspect pass D the week before? 

 

And I get that you feel the need to denigrate a player you would otherwise love because Beane added him.  It's your MO.  Re-read what @BADOLBILZ said.

 

 

So against a good pass D, he gets targeted a ton, but against a mediocre pass D, he has to be a decoy only? 

 

Anyway....I haven't denigrated him even once doc--this is more of your obfuscation by straw man.  

 

For a 3rd time I'll say he was a solid pickup.  For a 4th time, he's not what you are claiming him to be--but he doesn't have to be, nor does he need my love (lol, wtf).  Debunking your fantastical claims isn't "denigration", by the way.

 

Beane's career-long  struggles drafting and signing guys for this WR room have been well documented here.  Why pretend otherwise?  

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

you have that exactly backwards

No I don’t. Read it again. 
 

Hopkins is averaging less than 10 YPG more than Cooper. 38.5 to 47.8.

 

And the Chiefs’ offensive numbers and Mahomes’ numbers have improved dramatically since trading for him, similar to the Bills.