I'm really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better

[Doc]

So Cooper didn't have a catch against the Lions.  Did it help open things up for others?  Or was his addition meaningless?

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

So Cooper didn't have a catch against the Lions.  Did it help open things up for others?  Or was his addition meaningless?

There was an Orlovsky video that showed that they were running Cooper and Coleman on deep routes to draw the safties out wide. That's why they could attack the middle of the field all game. 

[Jauronimo]

9 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Perfectly said!!

 

Ironically, if there is a play on 3rd down and we need to force it to a WR, it’s the guy that they traded for. He didn’t have a target this week but did have 14 the week before. He’s probably the guy that they are most comfortable “winning” his matchup. 

These guys have all played fine. Hollins has blocked well and made some tough/clutch catches. Shakir has developed into a rich man’s Beasley with his ability to run after the catch. Coleman has flashed. His strengths coming out have been his strengths and his weaknesses coming out have been his weaknesses. The Cooper addition was big and it will play dividends. He’s a consummate pro. He can get open and make plays down the field. He can explode in any given game. Samuel was always going to be a gadget guy. That’s fine if they knew how to use him. Throw the ball down the field to him. Use misdirection. Get him in space. Don’t just throw WR screens to him. 
 

As a whole @Buffalo_Stampede hit the nail on the head. It is working. I’ve enjoyed this last season of Joe Brady as OC. The offense has been excellent.

 

 

Just wanted to point out that the highest rated Bills WR on this chart is MVS.

[HappyDays]

8 hours ago, Avisan said:

We traded for, Cooper, sure.  He replaced MVS and has been on the field for what, 1/3 of our games this season?  And an active factor in what, two games? 

 

He's been an active factor in every game he played in. Including yesterday despite the zero targets.

 

A lot of fans misunderstood the conversation in the offseason. Nobody was saying the Bills needed a Justin Jefferson caliber WR to have a good passing offense. What we were saying was that the Bills needed a WR that could match up with outside CBs. Before trading for Cooper we didn't have that. So we got into that stretch of games against Baltimore/Houston/NYJ and defenses figured out it was pretty easy to shut us down - just clog the middle and dare us to win outside. It was a HUGE problem. Claiming otherwise is the definition of revisionism to use your term. It became a problem again when Cooper missed the Indy game.

 

With him on the field defenses can't cheat to the middle. They have to respect his ability to win outside. That opens up everything else. Eventually teams might start cheating back to the middle again and then Cooper's opportunities will open up. Adding him took us from easy to defend to one of the most versatile offenses in the league. Even if he has zero targets he is having an impact just by being on the field. Now we can attack every single blade of grass on the field. If you can't see the difference you're not paying attention.

 

Edited Tuesday at 09:56 PM by HappyDays

[Mikey152]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

He's been an active factor in every game he played in. Including yesterday despite the zero targets.

 

A lot of fans misunderstood the conversation in the offseason. Nobody was saying the Bills needed a Justin Jefferson caliber WR to have a good passing offense. What we were saying was that the Bills needed a WR that could match up with outside CBs. Before trading for Cooper we didn't have that. So we got into that stretch of games against Baltimore/Houston/NYJ and defenses figured out it was pretty easy to shut us down - just clog the middle and dare us to win outside. It was a HUGE problem. Claiming otherwise is the definition of revisionism to use your term. It became a problem again when Cooper missed the Indy game.

 

With him on the field defenses can't cheat to the middle. They have to respect his ability to win outside. That opens up everything else. Eventually teams might start cheating back to the middle again and then Cooper's opportunities will open up. Adding him took us from easy to defend to one of the most versatile offenses in the league. Even he has zero targets he is having an impact just by being on the field. Now we can attack every single blade of grass on the field. If you can't see the difference you're not paying attention.

And the game Cooper missed?

 

the real reason they struggled in those Ravens and Houston games were two fold: they were the worst games the line played by far, and Shakir was banged up or out.

 

claiming that Cooper is the reason they have gone on this run, and thus “victory” is pretty ridiculous 

[TBBills Fan]

Addition by subtraction

 

Josh doesn't have to worry about getting one guy a certain number of targets, and is playing free. This has opened out offense up

[FireChans]

14 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

And the game Cooper missed?

 

the real reason they struggled in those Ravens and Houston games were two fold: they were the worst games the line played by far, and Shakir was banged up or out.

 

claiming that Cooper is the reason they have gone on this run, and thus “victory” is pretty ridiculous 

Brandon Beane disagreed with this assessment which is why he traded for Cooper immediately. 
 

The argument ended when he traded a 3rd round pick in October.  There’s no other explanation.

[HappyDays]

14 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

And the game Cooper missed?

 

The Indy game? Our passing offense stunk in that game.

[Danger Mouse]

Just look at our offence since cooper joined

He’s huge - one way or another 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

He's been an active factor in every game he played in. Including yesterday despite the zero targets.

 

A lot of fans misunderstood the conversation in the offseason. Nobody was saying the Bills needed a Justin Jefferson caliber WR to have a good passing offense. What we were saying was that the Bills needed a WR that could match up with outside CBs. Before trading for Cooper we didn't have that. So we got into that stretch of games against Baltimore/Houston/NYJ and defenses figured out it was pretty easy to shut us down - just clog the middle and dare us to win outside. It was a HUGE problem. Claiming otherwise is the definition of revisionism to use your term. It became a problem again when Cooper missed the Indy game.

 

With him on the field defenses can't cheat to the middle. They have to respect his ability to win outside. That opens up everything else. Eventually teams might start cheating back to the middle again and then Cooper's opportunities will open up. Adding him took us from easy to defend to one of the most versatile offenses in the league. Even he has zero targets he is having an impact just by being on the field. Now we can attack every single blade of grass on the field. If you can't see the difference you're not paying attention.

Some people said much more than just that.  

Edited Tuesday at 10:53 PM by NewEra

[Mikey152]

24 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Some people much more than just that.  

Moving the goal posts...

 

Every post about a #1 WR used stats and contracts as confirmation. Of course, now that we traded for Cooper none of that matters. We have a #1 that was on the bench in the red zone in our last game, has been hurt, and has poor numbers...but clearly he is the reason our offense is going off now because he sucks away all the coverage.

 

I'm not saying Cooper wasn't a good get for this team, but to act like HE is the reason the offense is good now (or even one of the top 5 reasons) is just silly.

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

Moving the goal posts...

 

Every post about a #1 WR used stats and contracts as confirmation. Of course, now that we traded for Cooper none of that matters. We have a #1 that was on the bench in the red zone in our last game, has been hurt, and has poor numbers...but clearly he is the reason our offense is going off now because he sucks away all the coverage.

 

I'm not saying Cooper wasn't a good get for this team, but to act like HE is the reason the offense is good now (or even one of the top 5 reasons) is just silly.

The offense is night and day and the switch was when we got Cooper

[NewEra]

37 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

Moving the goal posts...

 

Every post about a #1 WR used stats and contracts as confirmation. Of course, now that we traded for Cooper none of that matters. We have a #1 that was on the bench in the red zone in our last game, has been hurt, and has poor numbers...but clearly he is the reason our offense is going off now because he sucks away all the coverage.

 

I'm not saying Cooper wasn't a good get for this team, but to act like HE is the reason the offense is good now (or even one of the top 5 reasons) is just silly.

I’m moving the goalposts?  Idk, maybe my grammar error caused you to misunderstand my post.  
 

Some people were saying that this was the worst Bills WR unit in the last 40 years.  I disagreed.  
 

I do think cooper has made an impact, even in games last Sunday.  I just think the WR unit we had before cooper was a lot better than many suggested. 

 

And those saying that the WR unit has performed as they were expected aren’t telling the whole truth imo. Hollins is much better than most of ya’ll said he’d be.  Coleman has been good and was hitting his groove before the injury. Shakir has been as advertised but his rac ability has hit a new level imo.  He’s even better than last season. Samuel has been an injured bust that seems to be the most expensive gadget guy in the league. But he’s shown up in a few big moments.  

[warrior9]

40 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

The offense is night and day and the switch was when we got Cooper

I don't believe this is debatable. 

Fantasy football has ruined peoples outlooks on real football. They literally left cooper by himself, ran 4x1's and countered to his side on Cooks TD run. It left Dawson knox wide open several times. People who don't see his addition as value are just smooth brain, stat couch QBs

Edited Tuesday at 11:03 PM by warrior9

[Beast]

Coleman strikes me as a guy that probably had an eye opening experience this year and is going to work his tail off and come back and dominate in the coming seasons. I think the Bills struck gold with this kid.

[JerseyBills]

Andy Isabella will not be our WR3 in the divisional round!!!!

[Mikey152]

21 hours ago, NewEra said:

I’m moving the goalposts?  Idk, maybe my grammar error caused you to misunderstand my post.  
 

Some people were saying that this was the worst Bills WR unit in the last 40 years.  I disagreed.  
 

I do think cooper has made an impact, even in games last Sunday.  I just think the WR unit we had before cooper was a lot better than many suggested. 

 

And those saying that the WR unit has performed as they were expected aren’t telling the whole truth imo. Hollins is much better than most of ya’ll said he’d be.  Coleman has been good and was hitting his groove before the injury. Shakir has been as advertised but his rac ability has hit a new level imo.  He’s even better than last season. Samuel has been an injured bust that seems to be the most expensive gadget guy in the league. But he’s shown up in a few big moments.  

No, I meant the negative folks are...

[Mikey152]

21 hours ago, warrior9 said:

I don't believe this is debatable. 

Fantasy football has ruined peoples outlooks on real football. They literally left cooper by himself, ran 4x1's and countered to his side on Cooks TD run. It left Dawson knox wide open several times. People who don't see his addition as value are just smooth brain, stat couch QBs

Again, nobody is saying Amari Cooper isn't valuable...

 

I just find it ironic that for a hundred pages people argued that the WR position is about more than just stats, and all we saw was "Top 25" this and "100 Targets" that. We "NEED" a number 1 WR for this offense to function and were told a #1 was somebody with big numbers and a bigger contract.

 

So We start off like a house on fire, and haters are quiet...then we suck for a few weeks (which also happen to be the worst the Oline has played all season) and haters are saying "see, told ya" Beene gets Cooper, and the offense gets better...but Cooper isn't getting #1 snaps, gets hurt, and isn't even putting up close to #1 production in any stat. Haters say "WR is about more than just stats"

 

WTF

 

Side Note:  The Bills have scored 30+ points 11 times this season.  Amari Cooper has played in 6 games for the Bills and started 4.  He was 4th on the team in snap percentage this week against the Lions behind Coleman, Shakir and Hollins. He was also 4th last week behind Hollins, Shakir and Samuel.

Edited Wednesday at 08:52 PM by Mikey152

[JerseyBills]

 

1 hour ago, Mikey152 said:

Again, nobody is saying Amari Cooper isn't valuable...

 

I just find it ironic that for a hundred pages people argued that the WR position is about more than just stats, and all we saw was "Top 25" this and "100 Targets" that. We "NEED" a number 1 WR for this offense to function and were told a #1 was somebody with big numbers and a bigger contract.

 

So We start off like a house on fire, and haters are quiet...then we suck for a few weeks (which also happen to be the worst the Oline has played all season) and haters are saying "see, told ya" Beene gets Cooper, and the offense gets better...but Cooper isn't getting #1 snaps, gets hurt, and isn't even putting up close to #1 production in any stat. Haters say "WR is about more than just stats"

 

WTF

 

Side Note:  The Bills have scored 30+ points 11 times this season.  Amari Cooper has played in 6 games for the Bills and started 4.  He was 4th on the team in snap percentage this week against the Lions behind Coleman, Shakir and Hollins. He was also 4th last week behind Hollins, Shakir and Samuel.

🗣 

Edited Wednesday at 10:23 PM by JerseyBills

[folz]

Thought I'd look at the numbers of with and without Amari.

 

My initial instinct was, of course he helps, but the boys were doing pretty good without him too (they scored over 30 points 5 times without Amari being on the field). But then I looked at the numbers.

 

Six Games with Amari: 220 points and 2,502 yards of offensive

Eight Games without Amari: 225 points and 2,598 yards of offense

 

Per game that looks like: With Amari: 417 yards/game and 36.66 points/game. Without Amari: 325 yards/game and 28.13 points/game.

 

Now some of the improvement is obviously just the offense as a whole getting better as the year goes on (there were a lot of new pieces at the start of the year and along the way that needed to get acclimated). And hard to say one way or the other that the Baltimore and Houston games would have gone differently if Amari was on the field. But, it's also pretty hard to look at those stats and not say that Amari has had a HUGE impact on the offense.

 

Now, having said that and acknowledging that trading for Cooper shows that the team believed, as many of you did, that we did still need a WR1 (even if he wasn't going to be catching 80-100 balls in this offense), can't some of you guys acknowledge that Coleman, Shakir, Hollins, and the use of the TEs and RBs in the passing game has all turned out better than what you expected too (with or without Amari in the conversation)?

 

It seems that most of us were all a little bit right and a little bit wrong in our preseason assessments of the WR room/passing offense, imo.