I'm really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

When you are down a lot, you pass the ball more, yeah?

 

Goff has passed the ball more than 28 times a game once this season.

 

Josh has had to do it 5 times.

 

Anywho, do you think the Bills passing game is right up there with the Lions?

 

Also the Lions have 11th ranked passing offense lol.

 

I'm not sure where you are missing.

The Bills and Lions lead the league in point differential.  Meaning that by the 4th quarter or late in the game, they aren't passing the ball.  

 

Yes, I think the Bills passing game is up there with the Lions.

 

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/

Click on the link or look at the screen shot.  Where are the Bills and Lions ranked in passing?  

 

 

[Mat68]

Being more balanced makes the Bills a tougher offense to defense.  Having guys who can get open in deferent ways.  Coleman, Cooper and Shakir can all get open different ways.  Passing yards are meaningless out of context.  Buffalo can run at you.  Coleman can break a tackle and make an explosive play.  Cooper can shake about anyone 1 on 1.  Shakir solid.  They are become a very good offense in the New England style.  Can kind of do everything and attack your weakness and make you play a way you’re not comfortable. 

Edited Tuesday at 03:45 PM by Mat68

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I'm not sure where you are missing.

The Bills and Lions lead the league in point differential.  Meaning that by the 4th quarter or late in the game, they aren't passing the ball.  

 

Yes, I think the Bills passing game is up there with the Lions.

 

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/

Click on the link or look at the screen shot.  Where are the Bills and Lions ranked in passing?  

 

 

Interesting.

 

PFR has the Bills at 15th passing yards and Lions at 11th.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2024.htm

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/det/2024.htm

 

But the numbers don't add up?

 

They also have the Lions lower in rushing attempts but a higher ranking in rushing attempts?

 

Weird stuff.

 

Leading the league in point differential doesn't mean that you are always running in the 4th Q FWIW.  Titans game specifically we passed a ton with a lead.

 

From PFR, the Bills have run 165 plays when trailing, 91 while tied, and 206 with a lead.

 

The Lions have run 135 plays while trailing, 70 while tied, and 222 with a lead.

 

Quick math says that the Bills have run 51 more plays tied/trailing than the Lions have. Despite point differential. That's almost an extra game.

[Avisan]

Wait is @FireChans really doing this after a dominant game by Keon Coleman in which the Bills won by 21 points?

[Mikey152]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Josh Allen has >600 passing yards and 4 passing TD's in his last two games.

 

Prior to trading for Amari, he had 526 passing yards  and 3 passing TD's in the last 3 games.

 

Despite the Amari addition and the best QB in the NFL right now, we have the 15th best passing offense by yards.

 

Where is the OP

 

I am sure having Cooper has been a great addition, but to act like he is the key that unlocked it all is kind of silly. He really isn't getting a lot of snaps or targets and certainly not enough to explain the sudden increase in production.

 

The real difference the last two weeks has been A) Healthy Shakir B) Emergence of Coleman (taking snaps from Hollins and MVS) C) Worse teams and a home game.

 

I will say, Samuel was a big miss on my part. He just has not been a factor, at all. That clearly hurt their ability to beat man against good defenses, and it also pushed some guys up the roster that maybe shouldn't be getting so many snaps.

 

 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Avisan said:

Wait is @FireChans really doing this after a dominant game by Keon Coleman in which the Bills won by 21 points?

Coleman had a good game.  5 for 70 and a TD is not what I would consider a dominant game though?

 

That's not even top 30 in catches or yardage this week.

[FireChans]

15 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

 

I am sure having Cooper has been a great addition, but to act like he is the key that unlocked it all is kind of silly. He really isn't getting a lot of snaps or targets and certainly not enough to explain the sudden increase in production.

 

The real difference the last two weeks has been A) Healthy Shakir B) Emergence of Coleman (taking snaps from Hollins and MVS) C) Worse teams and a home game.

 

I will say, Samuel was a big miss on my part. He just has not been a factor, at all. That clearly hurt their ability to beat man against good defenses, and it also pushed some guys up the roster that maybe shouldn't be getting so many snaps.

 

 

Amari Cooper saw more snaps than Hollins this week. So did Shakir.

 

Prior to the Cooper addition, Hollins got the second most snaps at WR on the team.

 

This is not all a coincidence.  Less Mack Hollins = good.  More Shakir/Coleman/Cooper = good.

 

Every team has a limited time to gameplan. Every second spent on film or gameplanning on Amari is less time spent on Shakir or Coleman. It is truly zero sum. Teams can no longer say, "lets not bother worrying about Mack" and spend their energies elsewhere.

 

FWIW, with a healthy Shakir, the team eclipsed 190 passing yards twice in the first 4 weeks of season. We didn't have to pass for much of those games but it wasn't like we were throwing it all over the yard either.

 

Anyways, don't want to belabor the point. I was curious if your take changed since you made the thread. I suppose it has not.

Edited Tuesday at 05:26 PM by FireChans

[Dan in Owego]

 

[Mikey152]

47 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Amari Cooper saw more snaps than Hollins this week. So did Shakir.

 

Prior to the Cooper addition, Hollins got the second most snaps at WR on the team.

 

This is not all a coincidence.  Less Mack Hollins = good.  More Shakir/Coleman/Cooper = good.

 

Every team has a limited time to gameplan. Every second spent on film or gameplanning on Amari is less time spent on Shakir or Coleman. It is truly zero sum. Teams can no longer say, "lets not bother worrying about Mack" and spend their energies elsewhere.

 

FWIW, with a healthy Shakir, the team eclipsed 190 passing yards twice in the first 4 weeks of season. We didn't have to pass for much of those games but it wasn't like we were throwing it all over the yard either.

 

Anyways, don't want to belabor the point. I was curious if your take changed since you made the thread. I suppose it has not.

...I didn't make the thread

[FireChans]

Just now, Mikey152 said:

...I didn't make the thread

WHOOPS, my bad!

[Saint Douggie]

Lol this thread went from aging like milk to aging like fine wine

[Simon]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Coleman had a good game.  5 for 70 and a TD is not what I would consider a dominant game though?

 

Dude.

I don't care about the math.

I know you saw what he did to Tariq Woolen all afternoon.

He made a very good corner look like a freaking middle schooler.

He absolutely dominated him.

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Dude.

I don't care about the math.

I know you saw what he did to Tariq Woolen all afternoon.

He made a very good corner look like a freaking middle schooler.

He absolutely dominated him.

He played very well against a very good corner.

 

I stand by what I said on dominant performance. Amari going 11 for 265 and 2 TD’s is a dominant performance. AJ Brown going 9 for 175 and 2 TD’s is a dominant performance. Tyreek going 11 for 215 and 2 TD’s is a dominant performance. Diggs going 6 for 120 and 3 TD’s is a dominant performance. 

 
I watch the entire NFL. Coleman has far exceeded my expectations and he’s a rookie so imo the sky is the limit for him, especially with the way he’s come on recently. But 5 for 70 dominant? A bridge too far, imo. 

[Simon]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

He played very well against a very good corner.

 

I stand by what I said on dominant performance. Amari going 11 for 265 and 2 TD’s is a dominant performance. AJ Brown going 9 for 175 and 2 TD’s is a dominant performance. Tyreek going 11 for 215 and 2 TD’s is a dominant performance. Diggs going 6 for 120 and 3 TD’s is a dominant performance. 

 
I watch the entire NFL. Coleman has far exceeded my expectations and he’s a rookie so imo the sky is the limit for him, especially with the way he’s come on recently. But 5 for 70 dominant? A bridge too far, imo. 

 

You're focused on the math.

The physical beatdown was absolutely dominant.

Woolen might wear a fake mustache around town this week.

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

You're focused on the math.

The physical beatdown was absolutely dominant.

Woolen might wear a fake mustache around town this week.

I will concur his performance on sunday was the most out-physicaled performance that I have seen from a Bills WR in maybe a decade. 

Edited Tuesday at 07:07 PM by FireChans

[Charles Romes]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

He played very well against a very good corner.

 

I stand by what I said on dominant performance. Amari going 11 for 265 and 2 TD’s is a dominant performance. AJ Brown going 9 for 175 and 2 TD’s is a dominant performance. Tyreek going 11 for 215 and 2 TD’s is a dominant performance. Diggs going 6 for 120 and 3 TD’s is a dominant performance. 

 
I watch the entire NFL. Coleman has far exceeded my expectations and he’s a rookie so imo the sky is the limit for him, especially with the way he’s come on recently. But 5 for 70 dominant? A bridge too far, imo. 

a 40 yard PI to set up another TD. Fighting through contact by 2DBs and knocking one down to get wide open for a deep curl. Posterizing a pro bowl 6’4 corner for a 1 hand contested TD then tapping him on the head. Pancake block and then finishing another block all the way to the bench to draw a retaliatory penalty, all adds up to domination imo. It was quite a performance.  

[Augie]

15 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

You're focused on the math.

The physical beatdown was absolutely dominant.

Woolen might wear a fake mustache around town this week.

 

Keon bullied the bully. That is playoff style football that we previously lacked, especially against the handsy Chiefs. I like it. A lot! 

 

EDIT: Buried in here somewhere is a clip of Keon taking a couple steps off the line and tossing a. DB to the ground. That warmed my heart! That is new. 

 

 

.

Edited Tuesday at 07:17 PM by Augie

[NewEra]

14 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

You're focused on the math.

The physical beatdown was absolutely dominant.

Woolen might wear a fake mustache around town this week.

 But, but, but stats >>>>>> everything.

 

and there’s a stat to prove almost any side of any argument.  TSW in a nutshell

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

[Nephilim17]

Joe Marino in a recent podcast brings up some good points about how we now (including Cooper) appear to be far better with out top-3 WRs than we would be if we kept Steph and Gabe:

 

Regarding Diggs diminishing vertical game and Davis this year:

- Diggs is still producing this year (prior to injury) but his vertical game is diminishing: his average depth of target was just 8.3 yards; last year it was 10.5 and in prior years "pushing 12 yards," says Joe

- over half of his snaps are from the slot; he's become a slot WR; Joe says that still has value but "there's a trajectory to be mindful of"

- Gabe Davis this year in on pace for 40 catches, 400-something yards and 4 TDs this year — for $13 million; "this speaks to the limitations I've been talking about for years; you cannot view Davis as a legitimate number 2 WR; he's too limited. A limited football player in a prominent role in your offense constipates your offense. There's not a piece of me that misses Gabe Davis."

- "So would I rather have Diggs and Davis or Coleman, Cooper and Sharkir in a prominent role? C'mon, of course I would rather have what the Bills have right now."

 

Regarding Josh this year with his new WRs:
- It's unlocked more for Allen who has never been more efficient, says Joe

- Why is that? Josh is not worried about 160 targets going to Diggs

- And Josh no longer is on the "ridiculous journey to validate Davis as a true number 2 WR."

- "Those burdens have been lifted."
- Josh is now more efficient than ever

 

Looking into Josh's stats, his comp % is not at a career high but his TD/INT ratio is (yes, I've heard the points that a lot is luck and he should have more picks thus far) but the eye test says Josh is playing smarter. 

 

And Josh's QBR is a tick better than his prior best.

Let's see where Josh ends up after 17 games but I think Marino is on point about how this mix of WRs is better than what we'd have with Steph and Gabe and Josh is liberated to be efficient and not feed any guy balls based on salary and #1 or #2 designation.

See around 15:40 of Joe's podcast for this discussion...

 

 

- 


Hard to argue.