I'm really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better

[NickelCity]

13 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Gabe didn’t make you nervous against our defense last night?

 

I can't tell if this is serious, heh. No, Gabe did not make me nervous in the slightest. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

35 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

 

I can't tell if this is serious, heh. No, Gabe did not make me nervous in the slightest. 

Definitely not serious 😆

[BADOLBILZ]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

Thread about WRs- Yet you bring up a take on Spencer Brown to show how someone can have an incorrect take.  Everyone has incorrect takes.  Some are man enough to admit being wrong.  Some are not. 

 

You agreed with the notion that this is the worst WR unit we’ve had in 40+ years.  That’s in THIS thread.  

 

 

It's called an analogy.   "A comparison between two things typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification".   In quotations for @Alphadawg7 before he pulls his "fake news" act.   Analogy adds to the discussion.  

 

You are confusing that reality with your need to be told that winning a couple early season blowouts proves something substantial.    The early season 2023 offense that obliterated Las Vegas, Miami and Washington in consecutive games clearly was NOT the same by the end of last season.   Don't keep making the same mistake of assuming September football projects to January football.   As I said before camp.........we will know if this experiment worked or not in February. 

[Saxum]

23 hours ago, Simon said:

 

We need some better competition first for that, imo.

But it's enough to keep the chicken littles quiet in the hen house.

 

Better that they be in the frier.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's called an analogy.   "A comparison between two things typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification".   In quotations for @Alphadawg7 before he pulls his "fake news" act.   Analogy adds to the discussion.  

 

You are confusing that reality with your need to be told that winning a couple early season blowouts proves something substantial.    The early season 2023 offense that obliterated Las Vegas, Miami and Washington in consecutive games clearly was NOT the same by the end of last season.   Don't keep making the same mistake of assuming September football projects to January football.   As I said before camp.........we will know if this experiment worked or not in February. 

I’ve already stated my thoughts several times. I know this means nothing in terms of winning a Super Bowl.  In terms of who is better, the Jordan Matthew’s 2017 WR unit or this WR unit, it means a lot.  This unit is better.  
 

I have eyes,  I can see.  While you’re too busy protecting your ego to open your eyes and look at this unit.  It’s better.  That unit didn’t have 1 “good” players. 

[Simon]

20 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Has that concept been proven ill conceived yet though?    

 

 

Nothing in regards to this subject is going to ever be proven. It's a bunch of people giving opinions and debating the relative merits and downsides to different philosophies. Some folks in this thread thought the Bills would be OK, some thought they would struggle. Some thought that they were irretrievably lost without the luxury of a #1 WR. Some things have happened over the first few weeks to suggest that the latter group is wrong and others are pointing that out. The folks that were debating between they'll be OK and they'll have some struggles are both still very much in play.

Suggesting that your position is correct because other opinions haven't been proven is just more of your "I'm always right and everybody else is stupid" nonsense.

 

20 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I don't see the point in drafting 2 EVERY draft but maybe during a great draft for WR prospects it's a good idea.   

 

Talk to me in a couple years because frankly, I'm still not convinced of the objective greatness of this WR class.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I’ve already stated my thoughts several times. I know this means nothing in terms of winning a Super Bowl.  In terms of who is better, the Jordan Matthew’s 2017 WR unit or this WR unit, it means a lot.  This unit is better.  
 

I have eyes,  I can see.  While you’re too busy protecting your ego to open your eyes and look at this unit.  It’s better.  That unit didn’t have 1 “good” players. 

 

 

The WR corps hasn't been better than it was early last season.   Diggs himself was putting up pinball numbers.   The focus so far has just been taken off of the WR corps.   Which was the trend at the end of last season.  The numbers are clear about that.   The OL is better.   The RB's and TE's are better(and more of the focus).   The WR's......nah.

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The WR corps hasn't been better than it was early last season.   Diggs himself was putting up pinball numbers.   The focus so far has just been taken off of the WR corps.   Which was the trend at the end of last season.  The numbers are clear about that.   The OL is better.   The RB's and TE's are better(and more of the focus).   The WR's......nah.

I’m not talking about last season.  Pay attention 

[Patrick Duffy]

They certainly look to be catching the ball better so far, that's for sure. Hope it stays that way.....

[mjt328]

The Chiefs have won two straight Super Bowls after parting with Tyreek Hill.  And even though it's early, the Bills offense definitely seems more consistent without Stefon Diggs in the lineup.  I wonder if other teams are going to start realizing the big egos at that position just aren't worth the cap space (and headache).

 

Think about it.

When you have a player/captain like Diggs, he absolutely MUST be involved in the weekly gameplan.  If the QB isn't feeding him at least 5-10 targets per week, that player will certainly start sulking and complaining.  Whether it results in winning or not.

 

At the same time, defenses are putting extra focus/coverage on stopping a WR like Diggs.  Which means there are several times during every single game where the QB is purposely forcing the ball into heavy coverage, JUST to make his receiver happy.  That is going to result in wasted plays, turnovers and wasted drives.  Now maybe Diggs is more capable of beating the coverage and making a highlight catch than an average receiver... but wouldn't it just make more sense to focus on just finding the open guy all the time?

 

[JerseyBills]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's called an analogy.   "A comparison between two things typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification".   In quotations for @Alphadawg7 before he pulls his "fake news" act.   Analogy adds to the discussion.  

 

You are confusing that reality with your need to be told that winning a couple early season blowouts proves something substantial.    The early season 2023 offense that obliterated Las Vegas, Miami and Washington in consecutive games clearly was NOT the same by the end of last season.   Don't keep making the same mistake of assuming September football projects to January football.   As I said before camp.........we will know if this experiment worked or not in February. 

Ya that's a valid point for sure. I'd say 8 games is a legit sample size to truly determine if a O,D, team is special. I understand it doesn’t matter if they don't win it all but rarely has any great o or d not have a bad performance at some point 

 

12 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

The Chiefs have won two straight Super Bowls after parting with Tyreek Hill.  And even though it's early, the Bills offense definitely seems more consistent without Stefon Diggs in the lineup.  I wonder if other teams are going to start realizing the big egos at that position just aren't worth the cap space (and headache).

 

Think about it.

When you have a player/captain like Diggs, he absolutely MUST be involved in the weekly gameplan.  If the QB isn't feeding him at least 5-10 targets per week, that player will certainly start sulking and complaining.  Whether it results in winning or not.

 

At the same time, defenses are putting extra focus/coverage on stopping a WR like Diggs.  Which means there are several times during every single game where the QB is purposely forcing the ball into heavy coverage, JUST to make his receiver happy.  That is going to result in wasted plays, turnovers and wasted drives.  Now maybe Diggs is more capable of beating the coverage and making a highlight catch than an average receiver... but wouldn't it just make more sense to focus on just finding the open guy all the time?

 

Abstract,  and I might be making something put of nothing but Josh has made it a point ,in several interviews how selfless these guys are and how the everybody eats motto has taken over the O...

 

Imo, it's a slight jab at Diggs, like I said in OP, you don't eat 30 mil for nothing, Josh, Brady clearly wanted and knew they could be great without Diggs and that mentality 

[Bockeye]

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The WR corps hasn't been better than it was early last season.   Diggs himself was putting up pinball numbers.   The focus so far has just been taken off of the WR corps.   Which was the trend at the end of last season.  The numbers are clear about that.   The OL is better.   The RB's and TE's are better(and more of the focus).   The WR's......nah.

Not sure you can even say that based upon the number of pass attempts.  Without even looking, I’ll tell you the catch % is much higher with this group through the first three games than last years group…..so one could say the WR corps IS better than early last season.  Individual perspective. 

 

As some have mentioned above, it’s way too early to anoint this group better or worse.  So far though, they are trending in the right direction.  

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Bockeye said:

Without even looking, I’ll tell you 

 

This could be the catch phrase of the group who claim the WR corps is clearly better this season than it was at this point last season. 😂

 

I am enjoying the Bills taking advantage of being better prepared and executing better than the opponents they've had to face.   Just like I did last year(when I also didn't think their WR group was good enough to reach a SB with).  

 

But then the offense went from being incredible all the way to the point where the OC got fired at midseason.

 

Teams will adjust.  It's not natural for opponents to assume that Josh Allen isn't even going to try to stretch the field with his WR's so early season defensive game plans have been vulnerable.   But the tape will force them to adapt.  

 

The thing about having playmakers as opposed to role players is that playmakers require extra attention to take away........which opens up other avenues for the offense.  

 

Role players can just be schemed out.

 

I'd hate to see the Bills forced to have a heavy reliance on their outside WR's later in the season.........but if I was a DC that's what I'd be scheming to make happen.   I'm not going to just let you run 12 play drives if you are going to execute them and score 4 TD's in the first half.   I will make you throw it deep to MVS or Coleman or Hollins and take my chances that the mistakes will come in abundance there.

[Mikey152]

18 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

This could be the catch phrase of the group who claim the WR corps is clearly better this season than it was at this point last season. 😂

 

I am enjoying the Bills taking advantage of being better prepared and executing better than the opponents they've had to face.   Just like I did last year(when I also didn't think their WR group was good enough to reach a SB with).  

 

But then the offense went from being incredible all the way to the point where the OC got fired at midseason.

 

Teams will adjust.  It's not natural for opponents to assume that Josh Allen isn't even going to try to stretch the field with his WR's so early season defensive game plans have been vulnerable.   But the tape will force them to adapt.  

 

The thing about having playmakers as opposed to role players is that playmakers require extra attention to take away........which opens up other avenues for the offense.  

 

Role players can just be schemed out.

 

I'd hate to see the Bills forced to have a heavy reliance on their outside WR's later in the season.........but if I was a DC that's what I'd be scheming to make happen.   I'm not going to just let you run 12 play drives if you are going to execute them and score 4 TD's in the first half.   I will make you throw it deep to MVS or Coleman or Hollins and take my chances that the mistakes will come in abundance there.

First off, LOL at the idea that a defense can take away everything but the deep ball.

 

Second, you and I remember last season very differently. I remember our offense looking like crap against the Jets week 1. I also remember it looking like crap for most of the commanders game Week 3. Yes, Josh lit up Miami and did ok against Vegas (who blitzed him more than teams normally do)...but I never thought to myself "man, this offense looks great" 

 

The fact of the matter is, this might not be the best our receivers have ever looked, but this IS THE BEST JOSH HAS EVER LOOKED...and it isn't particularly close. At the end of the day, isn't that the big argument for stud receivers? We have Josh Allen, lets give him weapons!!!!! Well, this is his best start to a season statistically in every stat that matters. His efficiency is WAAAAAY up, his sacks are down, drops are down. It's clear as day this offense is running better, and having a bunch of receivers top to bottom that do their job is a big reason why. So, they might not have better fantasy numbers, but theyre better where it counts:  efficiency, scoring and wins

Edited September 25 by Mikey152

[Orlando Buffalo]

This receiver room is better for Josh than previous ones. With the exception of Diggs he has never had an elite WR so he does not need one to be great. Secondly if Josh has a weakness it is throwing guys open, he is not a top 5 guy in that, so having WR that catch the ball is more important than guys who can "get" open since Josh can get 50 yards in a hurry if they are open. 

[Alphadawg7]

 

[JerseyBills]

31 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

This could be the catch phrase of the group who claim the WR corps is clearly better this season than it was at this point last season. 😂

 

I am enjoying the Bills taking advantage of being better prepared and executing better than the opponents they've had to face.   Just like I did last year(when I also didn't think their WR group was good enough to reach a SB with).  

 

But then the offense went from being incredible all the way to the point where the OC got fired at midseason.

 

Teams will adjust.  It's not natural for opponents to assume that Josh Allen isn't even going to try to stretch the field with his WR's so early season defensive game plans have been vulnerable.   But the tape will force them to adapt.  

 

The thing about having playmakers as opposed to role players is that playmakers require extra attention to take away........which opens up other avenues for the offense.  

 

Role players can just be schemed out.

 

I'd hate to see the Bills forced to have a heavy reliance on their outside WR's later in the season.........but if I was a DC that's what I'd be scheming to make happen.   I'm not going to just let you run 12 play drives if you are going to execute them and score 4 TD's in the first half.   I will make you throw it deep to MVS or Coleman or Hollins and take my chances that the mistakes will come in abundance there.

Completely agree about teams adjusting,  but the exciting part is how dynamic we are , like this O has to be making DCs head spin. What are you adjusting to?

We can run the ball down your throat or we could have a game where 10 different guys catch the ball, all while our qb can also run at will.

 

Will be tough times adjusting 

[BADOLBILZ]

27 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Completely agree about teams adjusting,  but the exciting part is how dynamic we are , like this O has to be making DCs head spin. What are you adjusting to?

We can run the ball down your throat or we could have a game where 10 different guys catch the ball, all while our qb can also run at will.

 

Will be tough times adjusting 

 

 

What looks dynamic(defined as constantly changing) can look repetitive/predictable later when defense's take it away and you can't use the entire field.    

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Mikey152 said:

First off, LOL at the idea that a defense can take away everything but the deep ball.

 

Second, you and I remember last season very differently. I remember our offense looking like crap against the Jets week 1. I also remember it looking like crap for most of the commanders game Week 3. Yes, Josh lit up Miami and did ok against Vegas (who blitzed him more than teams normally do)...but I never thought to myself "man, this offense looks great" 

 

The fact of the matter is, this might not be the best our receivers have ever looked, but this IS THE BEST JOSH HAS EVER LOOKED...and it isn't particularly close. At the end of the day, isn't that the big argument for stud receivers? We have Josh Allen, lets give him weapons!!!!! Well, this is his best start to a season statistically in every stat that matters. His efficiency is WAAAAAY up, his sacks are down, drops are down. It's clear as day this offense is running better, and having a bunch of receivers top to bottom that do their job is a big reason why. So, they might not have better fantasy numbers, but theyre better where it counts:  efficiency, scoring and wins

 

 

1) Yes, it is possible.  But that "legion of boom" "defend every blade of grass" style of defense is out of vogue now because the talent at the QB and WR positions has increased exponentially in the past 15 years and week-in-week-out it's just more effective to make most teams nickel and dime their way down the field.   The Bills have adapted but it doesn't mean they've become indefensible.   They've just moved the emphasis.  

 

2) They faced a great defense on the road in the opener last year and then speedboated 3 teams more like the caliber of what they have played this year.   They put up huge numbers offensively.  

 

3) The thread is about the quality of the WR.   Josh has indeed looked great and they are letting him run and take his lumps like they typically have tried to avoid until later in the season.  9 rushes in the opener of the season?   Not ideal.  Subsequently he was injured in the opener.   That's all for another thread.    

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

This could be the catch phrase of the group who claim the WR corps is clearly better this season than it was at this point last season. 😂

 

I am enjoying the Bills taking advantage of being better prepared and executing better than the opponents they've had to face.   Just like I did last year(when I also didn't think their WR group was good enough to reach a SB with).  

 

But then the offense went from being incredible all the way to the point where the OC got fired at midseason.

 

Teams will adjust.  It's not natural for opponents to assume that Josh Allen isn't even going to try to stretch the field with his WR's so early season defensive game plans have been vulnerable.   But the tape will force them to adapt.  

 

The thing about having playmakers as opposed to role players is that playmakers require extra attention to take away........which opens up other avenues for the offense.  

 

Role players can just be schemed out.

 

I'd hate to see the Bills forced to have a heavy reliance on their outside WR's later in the season.........but if I was a DC that's what I'd be scheming to make happen.   I'm not going to just let you run 12 play drives if you are going to execute them and score 4 TD's in the first half.   I will make you throw it deep to MVS or Coleman or Hollins and take my chances that the mistakes will come in abundance there.

I agree, teams will adjust as we put more film on tape for them to gameplan around.  
 

BUT - I don’t know I have ever seen an offense in NFL history that was forced by the DC to beat them with just the deep ball.  Like never seen a defense just shut down all avenues of the offense to the point the only option is to beat them deep.  
 

Will there be times where we don’t have a lot of time on the clock and need to get some deep shots or chunk plays, yeah probably, I can see that happening and that is an area where we haven’t had to see them do yet so we will need to see how they do. 
 

And as far as the DC not letting us run 12 play drives, well that’s easier said than done.  Bills have guys across the board that can and have been making the plays.  Being able to effectively run the ball and then extend that run game through short throws to the backs, Shakir, Samuel, etc puts a lot of pressure on the defense when you also have to

account for Allen running.  As those things move chains all day and opens up mid level opportunities and quality deep shots.

 

And that is the most important thing…higher percentage quality deep shots, not just trying to recklessly force the ball downfield like Daboll and Dorsey stubbornly stuck too even when it wasn’t working.