I'm really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I love MVS as a guy but wait until he has a monster drop. I wish it wasn’t true but there’s a reason 6’5” 4.4 guys who play with Rodgers and Mahomes bounce around. 

Why oh Why .
Should I wait around to be pissdoff and then very sad.

I will be happy go lucky for now

,thank you very much C. 97

[ColoradoBills]

34 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Why oh Why .
Should I wait around to be pissdoff and then very sad.

I will be happy go lucky for now

,thank you very much C. 97

 

MVS has his issues BUT in the last 2 years with KC he has 3 TD on 24 targets and 12 first downs.

Diggs has 0 TDs on 21 targets.

 

"Elite" WRs (and I do hate that term) HAVE TO show up for the playoffs.

[3rdand12]

On 9/10/2024 at 6:40 PM, ColoradoBills said:

 

MVS has his issues BUT in the last 2 years with KC he has 3 TD on 24 targets and 12 first downs.

Diggs has 0 TDs on 21 targets.

 

"Elite" WRs (and I do hate that term) HAVE TO show up for the playoffs.

Hence the term. " Elite "

I expect  if the blue collar guys to catch it , if readily catchable too. It's the NFL

[zow2]

The only negative last night is what happened to Samuel, Hollins, Keon and MVS?!?   On the replays these guys were not getting separation downfield.  And the one deep pass to MVS, the ball landed in the perfect spot right where MVS should have been (not sure why he did a spinorama to miss it).

 

I'm starting to think the talking heads on TV are right about out WRs and maybe the Bills should trade for a Davonte Adams or a legit WR. 

 

If Xavier Worthy has a game vs Cincinnati, the gap between him and Keon will continue to widen. 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, zow2 said:

The only negative last night is what happened to Samuel, Hollins, Keon and MVS?!?   On the replays these guys were not getting separation downfield.  And the one deep pass to MVS, the ball landed in the perfect spot right where MVS should have been (not sure why he did a spinorama to miss it).

 

I'm starting to think the talking heads on TV are right about out WRs and maybe the Bills should trade for a Davonte Adams or a legit WR. 

 

If Xavier Worthy has a game vs Cincinnati, the gap between him and Keon will continue to widen. 

We only threw the ball 19 times.

Cook scored 3 TD’s and we had a defensive TD…why did we need to use our WR’s?

 

The ball to MVS was not perfect and he had good separation.  
 

32 points a game isn’t good enough so far?

Edited September 13 by Royale with Cheese

[Avisan]

1 minute ago, zow2 said:

The only negative last night is what happened to Samuel, Hollins, Keon and MVS?!?   On the replays these guys were not getting separation downfield.  And the one deep pass to MVS, the ball landed in the perfect spot right where MVS should have been (not sure why he did a spinorama to miss it).

 

I'm starting to think the talking heads on TV are right about out WRs and maybe the Bills should trade for a Davonte Adams or a legit WR. 

 

If Xavier Worthy has a game vs Cincinnati, the gap between him and Keon will continue to widen. 

Teams can generally shut down an element of the offense to some extent.  It's part of what is allowing the Bills to move the ball on the ground.

 

They don't want to lose to Allen's arm, so they're giving us the run game.  A key element being that Josh can make a play tl get us the 3rd and 12 conversion anyway when needed.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, zow2 said:

The only negative last night is what happened to Samuel, Hollins, Keon and MVS?!?   On the replays these guys were not getting separation downfield.  And the one deep pass to MVS, the ball landed in the perfect spot right where MVS should have been (not sure why he did a spinorama to miss it).

 

I'm starting to think the talking heads on TV are right about out WRs and maybe the Bills should trade for a Davonte Adams or a legit WR. 

 

If Xavier Worthy has a game vs Cincinnati, the gap between him and Keon will continue to widen. 

 

You'll have a happier life if you stop looking over the fence into the neighbor's field and performing comparative analysis of his pasture quality.  In the two games we played, the Bills have 59 rush attempts (58%) to 42 pass attempts (42%).  

 

The reason is, the Dolphins were vulnerable against the run, and Joe Brady seems to live by the mantra "if it's working, we're gonna keep doing it until you stop it".  So he kept running.  You can see this in the fact that Knox (who can block in-line and downfield) actually had more snap counts than Kincaid (whose blocking is improving, but still mostly limited to being in the right place at the right time and giving a little shove.

Look at the snap counts, which are out already.  They're interesting.  91% is "I played the whole game" because they pulled the starters after that.  Keon Coleman basically didn't come off the field until they pulled the starters at the end.  I would love to know what routes he was running because unlike Hollins, who had the second highest snap count among the WR, Keon is not in there to block.  He can block, but like any rookie he's learning how it's done in the Big Leagues.
 

Samuel saw 12 snaps in last night's game.  MVS saw 4.  So I'm not sure where you're seeing "they didn't get separation downfield" because, they were barely on the field, and sometimes when they were, they did; MVS had separation on a dangerous off-platform pass from Allen which he shouldn't have thrown.

 

Edited September 13 by Beck Water

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, zow2 said:

The only negative last night is what happened to Samuel, Hollins, Keon and MVS?!?   On the replays these guys were not getting separation downfield.  And the one deep pass to MVS, the ball landed in the perfect spot right where MVS should have been (not sure why he did a spinorama to miss it).

 

I'm starting to think the talking heads on TV are right about out WRs and maybe the Bills should trade for a Davonte Adams or a legit WR. 

 

If Xavier Worthy has a game vs Cincinnati, the gap between him and Keon will continue to widen. 

The pass to mvs was better than some say. I think the gameplan last night was run early and often.  And with Tua struggling,  let the D eat. Josh and his wrs had a quiet night but the game kinda dictated that. Keep feeding all the wrs, especially Coleman.

 

On a side note, it wouldn't surprise me to see Beane attempt to go after Adams before the trade deadline. 

Edited September 13 by LABILLBACKER

[zman44]

Week 1 PFF rankings agree with the lack of separation issue and I didn’t see anything in the limited week 2 reps to dispel this yet.  Going to be interested in tracking this all year:

[MikePJ76]

Bengals Corner cam taylor britt in response to a question about Xavier Worthy said he can run straight...maybe a jet sweep but basically he can run fast straight...just need to get your hands on him.

 

The bengals are awful chatty this week, their head coach is like 1-10 in weeks 1 -3 or something since he got there.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, zman44 said:

Week 1 PFF rankings agree with the lack of separation issue and I didn’t see anything in the limited week 2 reps to dispel this yet.  Going to be interested in tracking this all year:

 

There's something about this chart overall that doesn't pass the sniff test.  What does "average separation" mean here? Are they talking about all of the receivers separation on every play, or only the receiver who is targetted?

 

Take a gander at this clip from last night's game (Brian Baldinger, who everyone should check out every week if they don't)

The first play in the clip is the 3rd and 12 33-yd play to Ty Johnson.  From the pocket, Allen has Hollins (mis-ID'd as Coleman by Baldy) so wide open Hollins, short of the sticks, could probably pause for "a spot of tea"  and still get the first down.  He's got Kincaid super-open on a scramble drill.  Neither of those are good enough, Allen wants to toast Jalen Ramsey like Ty Johnson is a fire and Ramsey's on a stick like a weiner. 

But the point is, there is separation all over the place, Allen just chooses the higher degree of difficulty throw.  And this isn't by any means a unique play.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

There's something about this chart overall that doesn't pass the sniff test.  What does "average separation" mean here? Are they talking about all of the receivers separation on every play, or only the receiver who is targetted?

 

Take a gander at this clip from last night's game (Brian Baldinger, who everyone should check out every week if they don't)

The first play in the clip is the 3rd and 12 33-yd play to Ty Johnson.  From the pocket, Allen has Hollins (mis-ID'd as Coleman by Baldy) so wide open Hollins, short of the sticks, could probably pause for "a spot of tea"  and still get the first down.  He's got Kincaid super-open on a scramble drill.  Neither of those are good enough, Allen wants to toast Jalen Ramsey like Ty Johnson is a fire and Ramsey's on a stick like a weiner. 

But the point is, there is separation all over the place, Allen just chooses the higher degree of difficulty throw.  And this isn't by any means a unique play.

Hollins is never getting the first down there

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, zman44 said:

Week 1 PFF rankings agree with the lack of separation issue and I didn’t see anything in the limited week 2 reps to dispel this yet.  Going to be interested in tracking this all year:

 

As someone who watched the All-22 I can tell you this is not at all an accurate representation of whether we had guys getting open.  This does not take into account, nor is there any way that it can, guys who are running routes to just draw coverage away on a play designed to get someone else open.  Where it less about getting open, and more about where to run to.  And both Allen and Brady have talked a lot about this, but no one seems to be paying attention.  They keep praising the guys for selling those routes and its creating the kind of success we are seeing where Allen is getting the open window they designed the play for.  And we are seeing the evidence on the field and on the film.

 

Does that mean every play has this dynamic, no.  But its a part of our offense and been discussed a lot on how unselfish guys are and how hard they run and sell their routes when they know the ball isn't coming their way.  Now if the play gets disrupted and Allen has to scramble and extend the play, that is when guys break off those routes and try and come back and get to a spot to help Allen.  

[zman44]

Looking into it further, PFFs separation score is actually a combination score of multiple factors of a WR route and not just how open they are so it really isn’t a good representation of that aspect specifically.  

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

You'll have a happier life if you stop looking over the fence into the neighbor's field and performing comparative analysis of his pasture quality.  In the two games we played, the Bills have 59 rush attempts (58%) to 42 pass attempts (42%).  

 

The reason is, the Dolphins were vulnerable against the run, and Joe Brady seems to live by the mantra "if it's working, we're gonna keep doing it until you stop it".  So he kept running.  You can see this in the fact that Knox (who can block in-line and downfield) actually had more snap counts than Kincaid (whose blocking is improving, but still mostly limited to being in the right place at the right time and giving a little shove.

Look at the snap counts, which are out already.  They're interesting.  91% is "I played the whole game" because they pulled the starters after that.  Keon Coleman basically didn't come off the field until they pulled the starters at the end.  I would love to know what routes he was running because unlike Hollins, who had the second highest snap count among the WR, Keon is not in there to block.  He can block, but like any rookie he's learning how it's done in the Big Leagues.
 

Samuel saw 12 snaps in last night's game.  MVS saw 4.  So I'm not sure where you're seeing "they didn't get separation downfield" because, they were barely on the field, and sometimes when they were, they did; MVS had separation on a dangerous off-platform pass from Allen which he shouldn't have thrown.

 

The fact that worthy was even mentioned in his post is pathetic 

[oldmanfan]

I realize people are going to complain all year about this because they will refuse to accept what Brady will be doing with the offense.  He is going to run the ball more, he is going to use a lot of different receivers, and Josh will go to the open guy.  And the open guy will vary within games and from game to game based on the defense.

 

We saw this last year when the offense started to click and when Diggs got less touches.  We’ve seen it the first two games.  And it’s working. 
 

So complain if you want.  I like having two victories with over 30 points per game.  But that’s just me.

Edited September 13 by oldmanfan

[SoonerBillsFan]

41 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

There's something about this chart overall that doesn't pass the sniff test.  What does "average separation" mean here? Are they talking about all of the receivers separation on every play, or only the receiver who is targetted?

 

Take a gander at this clip from last night's game (Brian Baldinger, who everyone should check out every week if they don't)

The first play in the clip is the 3rd and 12 33-yd play to Ty Johnson.  From the pocket, Allen has Hollins (mis-ID'd as Coleman by Baldy) so wide open Hollins, short of the sticks, could probably pause for "a spot of tea"  and still get the first down.  He's got Kincaid super-open on a scramble drill.  Neither of those are good enough, Allen wants to toast Jalen Ramsey like Ty Johnson is a fire and Ramsey's on a stick like a weiner. 

But the point is, there is separation all over the place, Allen just chooses the higher degree of difficulty throw.  And this isn't by any means a unique play.

Honestly having it broken down in slow motion pisses me off. TWO receiving options for 1st downs and more are wide open and Allen goes for the kill shot. While we like that as fans, its dumb football.  Take those easy throws and get 1st downs and more.  That is the ONE issue I have with Allen, not taking those throws. He had Coleman open right in front of him last week, he holds the ball for a bigger play and gets strip sacked.

If Josh would just take the better throws, this team would be unstoppable. 

[Simon]

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

I would love to know what routes he was running because unlike Hollins, who had the second highest snap count among the WR, Keon is not in there to block.

 

I disagree with this.

They are running sets with Coleman and Hollins as the only WR on the field and they are out there for one reason, because they're the two best blockers in that room.

I think this staff has full faith in Coleman already.

[Beck Water]

13 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I disagree with this.

They are running sets with Coleman and Hollins as the only WR on the field and they are out there for one reason, because they're the two best blockers in that room.

I think this staff has full faith in Coleman already.

 

OK, I respect your opinion and what you see on the field.  That's pretty cool if so.

[Alphadawg7]

13 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I disagree with this.

They are running sets with Coleman and Hollins as the only WR on the field and they are out there for one reason, because they're the two best blockers in that room.

I think this staff has full faith in Coleman already.

 

100% agree, they are out there a lot together, and Beane has said several times they felt Keon was the best blocker of all the WR's in the draft, so they along with Allen have praised him in that regard as much as they have praised him as a receiving weapon.  And you see it on the field and on film both blocking in the run game and blocking for other receivers on pass plays.  That Shakir TD does not happen last week without both the blocks he got from Hollins (off the snap wipes out the nickel) and Coleman (takes his defender and blocks him deep into the endzone preventing him from making a stop at the goal line).

Edited September 13 by Alphadawg7