I'm really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better

[BullBuchanan]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Not when you don’t have enough of them and keep going home early.  
 

Think I care about stats against a lowly NE team, a Miami team with a bad defense and 3rd string QB in the first rounds?  No, not in the slightest.
 

I care about the big games against the teams that keep sending us home and keep us from reaching a Super Bowl.  

 

 

Can't throw himself the ball. If he could, we don't get sent home by KC last year. He dropped a pass he should have caught, no doubt. Ignoring him later cost us our season.

 

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

 

Can't throw himself the ball. If he could, we don't get sent home by KC last year. He dropped a pass he should have caught, no doubt. Ignoring him later cost us our season.

 

 

Dropping the pass is what led us to this play.  So you are blaming him not getting the ball here, when this play should have never happened had he not dropped the pass before.  

 

And again, work up his last 4 playoff exit games.  Hint...you won't be impressed.

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Dropping the pass is what led us to this play.  So you are blaming him not getting the ball here, when this play should have never happened had he not dropped the pass before.  

 

And again, work up his last 4 playoff exit games.  Hint...you won't be impressed.

I'd prefer to look at all of his stats, not just selecting ones that support an agenda. I also like to look at the context around events that happened, not just stats.

Diggs had a poor game against KC - not defending it

Cincinnati game was a dumpster fire that was the worst playoff performance of Josh's career. He missed a wide open Diggs target for a big gainer and possible TD early in the game and didn't target him later when he was open in the endzone - instead throwing to a heavily covered Davis. He was open constantly.

Against KC in 2021 - he had two big third down catches for 1st downs, but other than that, it seemed mostly like game script. They used the middle of the field a lot to beasley, and Davis erupted for 200 yards and 4tds. Not sure you can fault a guy for underperforming when his teammates go 14/261/4.

Against KC in 2020 he had a solid game with several important first downs, and Josh missed him on several critical plays for a bigger day.

It's certainly not a resume that jumps off the page, but it's also not worthy of the scapegoating agenda that's so prevalent around here.

[JESSEFEFFER]

I think this group of pass catchers will have a lower drop% and more RAC yards than any Josh has played with before.  But, they will not get much credit for being better as there won't be any pushing for league wide accolades.  Our world is conditioned to respect greatness and to connect it with stardom.

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I'd prefer to look at all of his stats, not just selecting ones that support an agenda. I also like to look at the context around events that happened, not just stats.

Diggs had a poor game against KC - not defending it

Cincinnati game was a dumpster fire that was the worst playoff performance of Josh's career. He missed a wide open Diggs target for a big gainer and possible TD early in the game and didn't target him later when he was open in the endzone - instead throwing to a heavily covered Davis. He was open constantly.

Against KC in 2021 - he had two big third down catches for 1st downs, but other than that, it seemed mostly like game script. They used the middle of the field a lot to beasley, and Davis erupted for 200 yards and 4tds. Not sure you can fault a guy for underperforming when his teammates go 14/261/4.

Against KC in 2020 he had a solid game with several important first downs, and Josh missed him on several critical plays for a bigger day.

It's certainly not a resume that jumps off the page, but it's also not worthy of the scapegoating agenda that's so prevalent around here.

 

My dogs name is literally Diggs.  I was all about Diggs, I defended him and said he is more misunderstood than he is of a give me the ball Diva.  I have no doubt in my mind that Diggs is more driven to win a SB than pad his own stats.  

 

But...for all of Diggs regular season dominance where he was a perennial top 5 and even top 3 WR at times during his four years here, he was also remarkably ineffective in our biggest games.  That is just a fact.  Now you can blame Allen, which most of your write up does above, or you can blame Diggs...or more importantly...you can look at it more as something just wasn't working and clicking in these moments with Josh and Diggs. 

 

Last year, Diggs is on pace for his 2nd biggest individual season of his career...but we are 5-5.  And in 7 of those games, the offense went 2-5 to teams with a .436% win rate and we were lucky to not be 0-7 as Giants and Bucs blew the game on the final plays of the game.  We also averaged under 20 PPG in those 7 games.  Then, Brady comes in and we go 6-1 to save the season, average 8 more PPG than we did in the final 6 games under Dorsey while emphasizing Diggs less. 

 

And once again, we are in a big game against KC...Diggs has his moment to make the big play to get us over the hump and ball goes right through his hands. 

 

I care about wins...you win games by scoring more than other team, not padding the stats of one player.  We won more games, scored more points, and had a better chance to win when Diggs was less involved.  Those are just facts. 

 

And in 4 playoff exits, Diggs was not the man no matter what excuse you want to bestow on him.  Shakir on the other hand made big plays in both our playoff games last year, including a TD in each and would have had the go-ahead TD too had Dawkins not been blown up by Chris Jones into Allen on the play you showed Diggs open.  But once again, that play should have never even happened if Diggs had just done his job earlier. 

 

I think Houston is a good place for him, and I think the Bills are in a better place without him.  It was a win-win split up IMHO.  And lets be real, Diggs days as a top 5 WR are likely in his rear-view mirror.  Houston already voided his contract after this season, he will be a 31 year old FA WR next year likely coming off a season with less than 1000 yards.  

[NewEra]

19 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I'd prefer to look at all of his stats, not just selecting ones that support an agenda. I also like to look at the context around events that happened, not just stats.

Diggs had a poor game against KC - not defending it

Cincinnati game was a dumpster fire that was the worst playoff performance of Josh's career. He missed a wide open Diggs target for a big gainer and possible TD early in the game and didn't target him later when he was open in the endzone - instead throwing to a heavily covered Davis. He was open constantly.

Against KC in 2021 - he had two big third down catches for 1st downs, but other than that, it seemed mostly like game script. They used the middle of the field a lot to beasley, and Davis erupted for 200 yards and 4tds. Not sure you can fault a guy for underperforming when his teammates go 14/261/4.

Against KC in 2020 he had a solid game with several important first downs, and Josh missed him on several critical plays for a bigger day.

It's certainly not a resume that jumps off the page, but it's also not worthy of the scapegoating agenda that's so prevalent around here.

He didn’t produce when we needed him most.  For whatever reasons, it doesn’t matter.  We need our best players to produce in the playoffs.  He didn’t.  Time to go. As it stands, I’m very happy to get a 2nd rd pick for him.

[BullBuchanan]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

My dogs name is literally Diggs.  I was all about Diggs, I defended him and said he is more misunderstood than he is of a give me the ball Diva.  I have no doubt in my mind that Diggs is more driven to win a SB than pad his own stats.  

 

But...for all of Diggs regular season dominance where he was a perennial top 5 and even top 3 WR at times during his four years here, he was also remarkably ineffective in our biggest games.  That is just a fact.  Now you can blame Allen, which most of your write up does above, or you can blame Diggs...or more importantly...you can look at it more as something just wasn't working and clicking in these moments with Josh and Diggs. 

 

Last year, Diggs is on pace for his 2nd biggest individual season of his career...but we are 5-5.  And in 7 of those games, the offense went 2-5 to teams with a .436% win rate and we were lucky to not be 0-7 as Giants and Bucs blew the game on the final plays of the game.  We also averaged under 20 PPG in those 7 games.  Then, Brady comes in and we go 6-1 to save the season, average 8 more PPG than we did in the final 6 games under Dorsey while emphasizing Diggs less. 

 

And once again, we are in a big game against KC...Diggs has his moment to make the big play to get us over the hump and ball goes right through his hands. 

 

I care about wins...you win games by scoring more than other team, not padding the stats of one player.  We won more games, scored more points, and had a better chance to win when Diggs was less involved.  Those are just facts. 

 

And in 4 playoff exits, Diggs was not the man no matter what excuse you want to bestow on him.  Shakir on the other hand made big plays in both our playoff games last year, including a TD in each and would have had the go-ahead TD too had Dawkins not been blown up by Chris Jones into Allen on the play you showed Diggs open.  But once again, that play should have never even happened if Diggs had just done his job earlier. 

 

I think Houston is a good place for him, and I think the Bills are in a better place without him.  It was a win-win split up IMHO.  And lets be real, Diggs days as a top 5 WR are likely in his rear-view mirror.  Houston already voided his contract after this season, he will be a 31 year old FA WR next year likely coming off a season with less than 1000 yards.  

ok. seems you ended this conversation with the perspective you walked in with. Hope that was fun for you.

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He didn’t produce when we needed him most.  For whatever reasons, it doesn’t matter.  We need our best players to produce in the playoffs.  He didn’t.  Time to go. As it stands, I’m very happy to get a 2nd rd pick for him.

Are you going to apply that same philosophy to Allen?

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

ok. seems you ended this conversation with the perspective you walked in with. Hope that was fun for you.

 

Huh, we had a fine discussion.  Did not realize the prerequisite for said discussion is that I had to end it being persuaded by you to yearn for Diggs.

[Magox]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Are you going to apply that same philosophy to Allen?

What are you talking about? Allen has played at an elite level in the playoffs, specially the last two KC losses.

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

ok. seems you ended this conversation with the perspective you walked in with. Hope that was fun for you.

Are you going to apply that same philosophy to Allen?

Allen has produced when we needed him most.  Not every game, but he’s historically one of the best playoffs QBs of all time- minus W-L.  He produces.  

[3rdand12]

This convo turned a bit ?

 

I really did like Brady and his game plan. Running strong, staying disciplined. Throwing to nearly everyone as planned.

And nearly everyone making a play

Noticed Allen did not focus on Kincaid or anyone really. Got them all involved ! Knox got a decent catch !

3 RBs had touches.

Very disciplined approach as they worked out first game jitters ( defense talking to you )

I know it was just the Cards , but .. liking this WR room and Brady

 

[BullBuchanan]

17 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Allen has produced when we needed him most.  Not every game, but he’s historically one of the best playoffs QBs of all time- minus W-L.  He produces.  

I mean, he has a sub 87 passer rating in every playoff loss outside of 13 seconds and in half of his total playoff games, so if you take @Alphadawg7 argument that only the losses matter because the stats against loser teams like NE and Pittsburgh don't matter, then the argument that Josh is a great playoff QB doesn't hold up to that metric.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02/gamelog/post/

[Doc]

20 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I mean, he has a sub 87 passer rating in every playoff loss outside of 13 seconds and in half of his total playoff games, so if you take @Alphadawg7 argument that only the losses matter because the stats against loser teams like NE and Pittsburgh don't matter, then the argument that Josh is a great playoff QB doesn't hold up to that metric.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02/gamelog/post/

 

QB rating is a joke to begin with.  It also doesn't take into account what he can do with his legs.

[Alphadawg7]

37 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I mean, he has a sub 87 passer rating in every playoff loss outside of 13 seconds and in half of his total playoff games, so if you take @Alphadawg7 argument that only the losses matter because the stats against loser teams like NE and Pittsburgh don't matter, then the argument that Josh is a great playoff QB doesn't hold up to that metric.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02/gamelog/post/

What I said was you can blame one or the other…or you can look at it as more something was not clicking and working between those two in the big games.  

[BullBuchanan]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

What I said was you can blame one or the other…or you can look at it as more something was not clicking and working between those two in the big games.  

Except again, there are tons of "big games" where they did both produce, you just wanted to omit those because they were victories against playoff teams you viewed as inferior. I'm already prepared for a narrative at the end of this year where we'll blame a lack of weapons for our inability to get the job done when this scenario was one of our own creation. Maybe the "Diggs was the problem" crowd will get lucky and injuries or a defensive meltdown will be the reason instead - can't wait to find out.

[stlbills13]

It's been one game but I definitely think we became a more unpredictable offense and better after the catch. 

 

Diggs was great. There will be times this year when we miss his skillset. But I do think we will be harder to stop in January

[Kirby Jackson]

Not trying to derail this or change the topic but had an interesting name to throw out there. Diontae Johnson is an interesting name to watch for us at the deadline. He has a different skill set than some of our other guys. 
 

He’s an elite route runner and good after the catch. His ability to separate reminds me of some guys Josh had a lot of success with. Johnson can handle some volume. He’s a FA after this year and on a team that is atrocious. You could add him for basically nothing once the Panthers are officially eliminated. Even if he’s just here for the stretch run, it’ll cost you like a 6th for a 7th swap. His current contract is cheap. He’s not the alpha that they need but he would fit nicely with the guys that we currently have. 

[Buffalo Junction]

2 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

I think this group of pass catchers will have a lower drop% and more RAC yards than any Josh has played with before.  But, they will not get much credit for being better as there won't be any pushing for league wide accolades.  Our world is conditioned to respect greatness and to connect it with stardom.

That narrative would definitely push Allen closer to a MVP award. That said, I can see Kincaid, Cook, Shakir, and/ Coleman getting accolades in the media; especially if any of them ball out in a prime time game. Coleman in particular has the personality to become a media darling with a few big games. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

I mean, he has a sub 87 passer rating in every playoff loss outside of 13 seconds and in half of his total playoff games, so if you take @Alphadawg7 argument that only the losses matter because the stats against loser teams like NE and Pittsburgh don't matter, then the argument that Josh is a great playoff QB doesn't hold up to that metric.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02/gamelog/post/

Ok- you’re right-  Josh is part of the problem. We should trade him too.

 

you’re just that guy. Carry on 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Except again, there are tons of "big games" where they did both produce, you just wanted to omit those because they were victories against playoff teams you viewed as inferior. I'm already prepared for a narrative at the end of this year where we'll blame a lack of weapons for our inability to get the job done when this scenario was one of our own creation. Maybe the "Diggs was the problem" crowd will get lucky and injuries or a defensive meltdown will be the reason instead - can't wait to find out.

Dude, the head of the “Diggs was the problem crowd” is Beane and Josh Allen.  Take it up with them.