I'm really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Samuel got a pretty good contract - 3yr 24M.  Cap hit implies we didn't boost his base salaries in years 2 and 3 to create space, which buffalo did.  

 

They used a 1st on kinkaid, a 2nd on cook, a 2nd on coleman, seem to have found something with shakir in the 5th, even davis in the 4th looks like a solid addition.  Miami is paying their guys a lot because they're veterans, and tua's cap hit is still manageable.  

 

This is a fair, rational counterargument.

However, I still feel like Beane undervalues the offense in general.  Our O has been the Allen and Diggs show.  Obviously, Motor, Cook, Davis, Kincaid, and others have made some meaningful contributions.  But we've only had two standout players.  The rest have been, to a greater or lesser extent  jags - the kinds of guys every team has. 

 

This year, it looks like it's just the Josh Allen show with a cast of no names.  And it might work.   But it would work better with with more stars.  Call me unrealistically greedy, but I long for days when we had HOFers playing wideout (Reed & Lofton) and more HOFers in the backfied (Thurm & Kelly).  

 

While we've recently run a two-star offense, Beane built, arguably, a six-star defense:  Miller, Oliver, Milano, White, Hyde, Poyer.  Ignoring injuries, it's been unbalanced.  

[C.Biscuit97]

15 hours ago, NeverOutNick said:

Courtland Sutton, Marvin Mims, Troy Franklin, Josh Reynolds and a plethora of depth players like Patrick, Dorsett, Humphreys etc…Sutton would be our clear #1 and Marvin Mims is a legit burner something we don’t have unless they keep Hamler and he actually pans out 

That group is the definition of meh. I’d take Sutton but he far from some game changing receiver. 

14 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

This is a fair, rational counterargument.

However, I still feel like Beane undervalues the offense in general.  Our O has been the Allen and Diggs show.  Obviously, Motor, Cook, Davis, Kincaid, and others have made some meaningful contributions.  But we've only had two standout players.  The rest have been, to a greater or lesser extent  jags - the kinds of guys every team has. 

 

This year, it looks like it's just the Josh Allen show with a cast of no names.  And it might work.   But it would work better with with more stars.  Call me unrealistically greedy, but I long for days when we had HOFers playing wideout (Reed & Lofton) and more HOFers in the backfied (Thurm & Kelly).  

 

While we've recently run a two-star offense, Beane built, arguably, a six-star defense:  Miller, Oliver, Milano, White, Hyde, Poyer.  Ignoring injuries, it's been unbalanced.  

I don’t really agree with that. We traded a 1st for Diggs. We drafted Kincaid in the 1st. He has spent 3 or 2nd/3rds on RBs. Paid big money to Dawkins and Morse, tried trading for crazy AB. Drafted Coleman in the 2nd. 

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

That group is the definition of meh. I’d take Sutton but he far from some game changing receiver. 

I don’t really agree with that. We traded a 1st for Diggs. We drafted Kincaid in the 1st. He has spent 3 or 2nd/3rds on RBs. Paid big money to Dawkins and Morse, tried trading for crazy AB. Drafted Coleman in the 2nd. 

That’s the real problem.

 

beane has his wires crossed. He spends 2nd and 3rds on RB’s and 5th’s and 6th’s on WRs. He should’ve been doing it the other way around imo.

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

That’s the real problem.

 

beane has his wires crossed. He spends 2nd and 3rds on RB’s and 5th’s and 6th’s on WRs. He should’ve been doing it the other way around imo.

Agree 100%. Beane has done great things and the Allen pick alone gives him a ton of job security. But why he goes so heavy on RBs (the Hines trade as well) blows my mind. He also has struggled big time with pass rushers. Wild that we haven’t developed a game changing DE with all the resources we have invested in it.

[FireChans]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agree 100%. Beane has done great things and the Allen pick alone gives him a ton of job security. But why he goes so heavy on RBs (the Hines trade as well) blows my mind. He also has struggled big time with pass rushers. Wild that we haven’t developed a game changing DE with all the resources we have invested in it.

DE is bad luck

 

WR is bad process, imo.

[Chaos]

14 hours ago, FireChans said:

DE is bad luck

 

WR is bad process, imo.

Is DE bad luck or are we just not good at picking defensive ends?

[Coach Tuesday]

20 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agree 100%. Beane has done great things and the Allen pick alone gives him a ton of job security. But why he goes so heavy on RBs (the Hines trade as well) blows my mind. He also has struggled big time with pass rushers. Wild that we haven’t developed a game changing DE with all the resources we have invested in it.

Greg Rousseau is criminally underrated on this site - just like Oliver was before last season.  Just you wait.

[BuffaloBaumer]

I am not quite sure how this thread is so long, our receivers are pretty trash other than Kincaid and Shakir. If those two don't have Pro Bowl seasons, this offense is going to involve A LOT of running and going for it on 4th and 5s (or less). 

[hondo in seattle]

Here's my Bills fantasy...

 

Joe Brady has been around a lot of coaches, worked with different systems, and this is the year he puts it all together and emerges as the second coming of Don Coryell and Bill Walsh.  Despite the shortcomings of the WR room, Brady is able to scheme guys open all over the field as Josh leads the most potent passing attack in the league on the way to a SB.

 

Not likely... but a guy can dream.  The Bills  and their fans deserve some unlikely good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 20 by hondo in seattle

[MikePJ76]

Just now, hondo in seattle said:

Here's my Bills fantasy...

 

Joe Brady has been around a lot of coaches, worked with different systems, and this is the year he puts it all together and emerges as the second coming of Don Coryell and Bill Walsh.  Despite the shortcomings of the WR room, Brady is able to scheme guys open all over the field as Josh leads the most potent passing attack in the league on the way to a SB.

 

Not likely... but a guy can dream.

 

 

 

 

probably closer to reality is shakir has a lot of catches as do knox and kincaid and then davis and cook get a ton of balls thrown to them.

 

I have said it all offseason and still believe it to be true they are laying the ground floor this year of a different approach, a more physical one and it is going to pay off in the long run.  When this season is over if they feel they have a glaring need for a superstar wr maybe they go out and make a deal for 1 or find one in the draft via trade up.  

 

I have liked what they have done and hope samuels gets healthy fast.

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Is DE bad luck or are we just not good at picking defensive ends?

 

The three high picks I break down as so:

 

1. AJ Epenesa - they picked him and then spent 18 months transforming his body and play style. That was a remarkably brave approach. If his last two seasons had been his first two seasons the perception of him would be different. I'm still personally not sold on the idea of him as a starting, every down, defensive end, which limits the value. But I do think he has good pass rush upside now. 

 

2. Greg Rousseau - I think Groot is a really good player was a good pick. The only defensive end that has surpassed him in production from that class is Jaelen Phillips and Rousseau is a better all around player. I don't think he is ever going to be a true high end pass rusher. He doesn't have the range of pass rush moves to be that IMO. But he is still ascending and his all around game is excellent. 

 

3. Boogie Basham - okay that one was just a bad pick. It was a bad pick at the time. It's a bad pick now. 

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The three high picks I break down as so:

 

1. AJ Epenesa - they picked him and then spent 18 months transforming his body and play style. That was a remarkably brave approach. If his last two seasons had been his first two seasons the perception of him would be different. I'm still personally not sold on the idea of him as a starting, every down, defensive end, which limits the value. But I do think he has good pass rush upside now. 

 

2. Greg Rousseau - I think Groot is a really good player was a good pick. The only defensive end that has surpassed him in production from that class is Jaelen Phillips and Rousseau is a better all around player. I don't think he is ever going to be a true high end pass rusher. He doesn't have the range of pass rush moves to be that IMO. But he is still ascending and his all around game is excellent. 

 

3. Boogie Basham - okay that one was just a bad pick. It was a bad pick at the time. It's a bad pick now. 

 

I think Rousseau is a great run defender and a good clean up sack guy.  He needs a good edge on the other side to flush the QB out.

Epenesa is a very solid DE and like you, I don't think he's an every down player.  

I honestly think we need to let our DE's line up wider on passing downs.

Edited August 20 by Royale with Cheese

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

[MikePJ76]

23 hours ago, FireChans said:

That’s the real problem.

 

beane has his wires crossed. He spends 2nd and 3rds on RB’s and 5th’s and 6th’s on WRs. He should’ve been doing it the other way around imo.

Drafting for need like that is how teams become bad teams.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think Rousseau is a great run defender and a good clean up sack guy.  He needs a good edge on the other side to flush the QB out.

Epenesa is a very solid DE and like you, I don't think he's an every down player.  

I honestly think we need to let our DE's line up wider on passing downs.

 

 

1) Mostly true but he's more than a clean-up sack guy.  He will get his share of early-in-down sacks if he can stay healthy.  His game is using his length and power and being elite and locating the QB stepping up in the pocket.  Shaq was a cleanup sack guy which more implies being a step slow, IMO. 

 

2) I don't have a PFF grade for him but I think @GunnerBill is an every down player.

 

3) For wider alignments you generally need bigger LB's.   Those funnel the RB's to LB.   The Bills defense protects the LB's which allows them to be smaller/quicker.   Also aligning wide doesn't help Rousseau's game, IMO.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

2) I don't have a PFF grade for him but I think @GunnerBill is an every down player.

 

If every down is a lie-down, sure. 

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

3) For wider alignments you generally need bigger LB's.   Those funnel the RB's to LB.   The Bills defense protects the LB's which allows them to be smaller/quicker.   Also aligning wide doesn't help Rousseau's game, IMO.

 

Agree on this. I don't think it helps Rousseau lining him up wider. Indeed it kinda negates his reach advantage a bit. It would help AJE to line him up wider the type of rusher they have turned him into. Which is kinda why I think he is suited to mainly playing 2nd/3rd and longs where you can do that.

[LABILLBACKER]

23 hours ago, FireChans said:

That’s the real problem.

 

beane has his wires crossed. He spends 2nd and 3rds on RB’s and 5th’s and 6th’s on WRs. He should’ve been doing it the other way around imo.

Exactly,  you can find plenty of serviceable RBs after the 4th round. But wrs must be taken early. That 2nd round run on wrs happens every single year.  Beane over values rbs and undervalued wrs.  He has yet to draft a 1st round wr. Diggs was a traded established player.  It's like he doesn't trust his own ability to evaluate / draft wrs?

[C.Biscuit97]

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Greg Rousseau is criminally underrated on this site - just like Oliver was before last season.  Just you wait.

I like Groot. Solid all around DE. Seems like he lacks burst to ever be a fearful pass rusher but I would love to see it, 

 

PS. I bet on his over for sacks last year at 7.5. I think he has like 3 after the first couple of games and still didn’t get it. 😞

[Jauronimo]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think Rousseau is a great run defender and a good clean up sack guy.  He needs a good edge on the other side to flush the QB out.

Epenesa is a very solid DE and like you, I don't think he's an every down player.  

I honestly think we need to let our DE's line up wider on passing downs.

Groot absolutely dominated Broderick Jones on Saturday.  Those were not clean up sacks.  He has looked very disruptive so far in his limited reps.

 

I thought Groot looked great early last year before the foot injury derailed his season. 

[first_and_ten]

On 8/15/2024 at 10:28 PM, JerseyBills said:

ithThis is an interesting take, but the O has showed up in the playoffs, Just last year our 24 points, with 2 missed FGs and 1 missed TD (Diggs) and a at least a FG attempt (Sherfield) , Bills put up more points than anyone else against KC in the postseason. 

Should've put up 30+

Our D last year and 13 seconds were to blame by far

This is a valid question and point but when a team is literally a play or 2 away from advancing, ya it's on the coach but also just flat out bad luck

 

You definitely make some good points. Our Offense didn't show up against the Bengals last year though. I also think that with a better offensive mind, we beat KC last year. We have a great quarterback, why not get an offensive mind like Andy Reid and let him hire a D coordinator. Play to our strength, which is Josh. 

 

This being said, I think KC's defense is the reason they won the Super Bowl. I think Mahomes is getting way too much credit for this championship. They do not beat the Ravens if it wasn't for a great defensive performance. Mahomes threw a very bad pick on their own side of the 50, and the defense held them pointless. Every show I watch it seems they give Mahomes all the credit, with no mention of the defense. 

On 8/15/2024 at 11:52 PM, hondo in seattle said:

 

I like McD but don't deny this is a concern.  

 

Quarterbacks can flourish under defensive-minded HCs.  Brady did fine under Belichick. 

 

But usually for this to work, the HC needs to find a good OC.  McD is on his 4th OC.  That's gotta be hard on Josh.  Only 1 of the 4 was successful - though the book on Brady is still open.  Then again, even Daboll had his shortcomings.  McD's problems with OC, and Beane's various shortcomings at offensive roster building, haven't created the ideal environment for Josh to thrive.  

 

McD needs to find his offensive Spags.  Hopefully, Brady proves to be The Guy.  

 

And maybe next year Beane upgrades the WR and OL rooms.  

 

  

 

Great points. Beane has been part of the problem as well. He needs to be better.