BarleyNY Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 54 minutes ago, Doc said: The Packers didn't have a receiver in the top-40. Is it that important to have one in the top 30? I’d refer you to the “rules and exceptions” department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, Doc said: That's because Hollins only had 30 targets. The Packers didn't have a receiver in the top-40. Is it that important to have one in the top 30? Fifth in targets, fifth in production, neither of which are #2. JAG numbers from a JAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 I think this could be the year Allen breaks the TD record to different receivers in a season. Taiwan Jones ruined that a few years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey152 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 (edited) 24 minutes ago, FireChans said: Fifth in targets, fifth in production, neither of which are #2. JAG numbers from a JAG. Yet he was second in targets, catches and yards among their WR. Yes, I said #5 on the Bills...that was at WR. If we count TE and RB, He is likely #8 in targets this season barring injury. So the point doesn't change. He was a starter on the Falcons and he likely won't be on the Bills. There was nothing disingenuous. This whole thread has gone back and forth between WR or WR/TE (and apparently RB now). But if you felt misled by my post, my apologies. That was not my intent. I was merely trying to point out that he was their #2 WR and didn't clarify. All that said, instead of focusing on how I "lied" maybe you can tell me how you think the Falcons receivers and TE are significantly (16 vs 28) better than the Bills? This isn't a courtroom...maybe focus less on winning and more on a constructive conversation? Edited July 25 by Mikey152 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey152 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 2 hours ago, bobobonators said: For real. Samuel wasted away in DC - he’s Deebo Samuel light. I’m psyched. I'm gonna get killed for this, I know it already...but I think they're gonna try and use him like the Dolphins use Tyreek. Probably not featured like Tyreek is, but similar from the perspective that he plays as a flanker and is moving a ton presnap. Lots of targets between the 20s as their primary man beater. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 (edited) 2 hours ago, NoSaint said: Brady was drafted in the 6th but is it your business model? also, Watson would be wr1 here also, also, when did their season end? Who was talking about Brady? Watson with his sub-800 yards (giving him the BOTD and extrapolating his production to a full season)? Doubtful at best. They lost in the divisional round. Thanks in large part to Love's 2 INTs and a questionable decision to go for it on 4th down at the SF 14. 1 hour ago, FireChans said: Fifth in targets, fifth in production, neither of which are #2. JAG numbers from a JAG. I didn't see that the argument was that he was going to be the #2 WR. I never thought he'd be that with Coleman and Samuel being starters and Shakir in the slot. Edited July 25 by Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mikey152 said: Yet he was second in targets, catches and yards among their WR. Yes, I said #5 on the Bills...that was at WR. If we count TE and RB, He is likely #8 in targets this season barring injury. So the point doesn't change. He was a starter on the Falcons and he likely won't be on the Bills. There was nothing disingenuous. This whole thread has gone back and forth between WR or WR/TE (and apparently RB now). But if you felt misled by my post, my apologies. That was not my intent. I was merely trying to point out that he was their #2 WR and didn't clarify. All that said, instead of focusing on how I "lied" maybe you can tell me how you think the Falcons receivers and TE are significantly (16 vs 28) better than the Bills? This isn't a courtroom...maybe focus less on winning and more on a constructive conversation? They aren’t ranking the Falcons last year bro. They are ranking this year he also wasn’t a starter for the Falcons. He started 3 games. Tour of untruths continues. Edited July 25 by FireChans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, Doc said: Who was talking about Brady? Watson with his sub-800 yards (giving him the BOTD and extrapolating his production to a full season)? Doubtful at best. They lost in the divisional round. Thanks in large part to Love's 2 INTs and a questionable decision to go for it on 4th down at the SF 14. I didn't see that the argument was that he was going to be the #2 WR. I never thought he'd be that with Coleman and Samuel being starters and Shakir in the slot. the Brady point being that there are exceptions to rules, but it’s not fun betting the house that you will also be the exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey152 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 (edited) 39 minutes ago, FireChans said: They aren’t ranking the Falcons last year bro. They are ranking this year he also wasn’t a starter for the Falcons. He started 3 games. Tour of untruths continues. Ugh. You still haven't answered the actual question...Instead of arguing my points, please give me ANY reason that the Falcons WR/TE are better than the Bills. I looked at their roster. London, Mooney and Pitts. Smith and Hollins were their #2 TE and WR, respectively, in targets and yards and they are gone. Behind those 3 there is nothing of note (late round picks and UDFAs with almost 0 production). Mooney and Pitts had 1k seasons in 2021, but significantly less production since (QB related? Maybe) I am struggling to see how that roster is better than the Bills. The point about Hollins should be clear, because he is a direct comp. On the Falcons, he was their second most productive WR last year. They added Mooney and some late rookie draft picks/UDFAs. That same guy on the Bills may or may not get any run on this team, suggesting we have a deeper room. So, all that said...instead of arguing my post, try arguing the point...for once. Edited July 25 by Mikey152 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 24 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: Ugh. You still haven't answered the actual question...Instead of arguing my points, please give me ANY reason that the Falcons WR/TE are better than the Bills. I looked at their roster. London, Mooney and Pitts. Smith and Hollins were their #2 TE and WR, respectively, in targets and yards and they are gone. Behind those 3 there is nothing of note (late round picks and UDFAs with almost 0 production). Mooney and Pitts had 1k seasons in 2021, but significantly less production since (QB related? Maybe) I am struggling to see how that roster is better than the Bills. The point about Hollins should be clear, because he is a direct comp. On the Falcons, he was their second most productive WR last year. They added Mooney and some late rookie draft picks/UDFAs. That same guy on the Bills may or may not get any run on this team, suggesting we have a deeper room. So, all that said...instead of arguing my post, try arguing the point...for once. London would be the best WR on the Bills and our instant WR1. Mooney would be the best WR on the Bills and our instant WR1. Kyle Pitts has not been elite like he was supposed to be, but after a great rookie season and a disastrous year 2, he caught 50+ balls for 600+ yards. Those are Dalton Kincaid numbers. So I consider TE a wash. Bijan and Allegier vs Cook and Davis is tougher. I love Cook but gun to my head I think Bijan is more talented and I’d take him for 24. so besides that, sure we are better. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikePJ76 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 18 minutes ago, FireChans said: London would be the best WR on the Bills and our instant WR1. Mooney would be the best WR on the Bills and our instant WR1. Kyle Pitts has not been elite like he was supposed to be, but after a great rookie season and a disastrous year 2, he caught 50+ balls for 600+ yards. Those are Dalton Kincaid numbers. So I consider TE a wash. Bijan and Allegier vs Cook and Davis is tougher. I love Cook but gun to my head I think Bijan is more talented and I’d take him for 24. so besides that, sure we are better. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. Sounds like the falcons with their new shanahan offensive system being installed should be a division winner and an nfc threat with all that talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 7 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said: Sounds like the falcons with their new shanahan offensive system being installed should be a division winner and an nfc threat with all that talent. I believe that’s why they signed Kirk Cousins to a major deal. To make a playoff push. FWIW, Vegas has the Falcons -120 to win the division. The only teams with better odds to win their divisions is the Chiefs and the Niners. https://www.legalsportsreport.com/odds/nfl/division/#nfc-south so yeah, you’re right. Vegas agrees. Thank you for the support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey152 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 (edited) 33 minutes ago, FireChans said: London would be the best WR on the Bills and our instant WR1. Mooney would be the best WR on the Bills and our instant WR1. Kyle Pitts has not been elite like he was supposed to be, but after a great rookie season and a disastrous year 2, he caught 50+ balls for 600+ yards. Those are Dalton Kincaid numbers. So I consider TE a wash. Bijan and Allegier vs Cook and Davis is tougher. I love Cook but gun to my head I think Bijan is more talented and I’d take him for 24. so besides that, sure we are better. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. Mooney the #1 on the Bills? That's a bold statement...gonna need you to qualify that one. By what measure? Im not sure he cracks the top 3 in Buffalo, and definitely not the top 2. Dude is a stick with questionable hands. Sure, he is fast and pretty good with the ball in his hands...but come on. As for TE, Id say #1 TE is a wash, but who's their #2? That guy from SF? Drake London is probably better than what the Bills have, barring Keon Breakout (funny thing is, Drake London is probably best case Keon comp), but after that and Pitts/Kincaid wash, the Bills run away with this one. Also, this is TE and WR (per the sharp list) so not sure what RB has to do with anything. Edited July 25 by Mikey152 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikePJ76 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 minute ago, FireChans said: I believe that’s why they signed Kirk Cousins to a major deal. To make a playoff push. FWIW, Vegas has the Falcons -120 to win the division. The only teams with better odds to win their divisions is the Chiefs and the Niners. https://www.legalsportsreport.com/odds/nfl/division/#nfc-south so yeah, you’re right. Vegas agrees. Thank you for the support. Not sure why you are being snarky here. I am simply pointing out they shifted to the winning offense (shanahan's) and they brought in a quarterback who knows it inside out and thus should win the division and be a player in the nfc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 Just now, MikePJ76 said: Not sure why you are being snarky here. I am simply pointing out they shifted to the winning offense (shanahan's) and they brought in a quarterback who knows it inside out and thus should win the division and be a player in the nfc. That’s what Vegas says. The real question about the Falcons is their defense. They only have a few names on a unit that wasn’t very good last year and they used their nice draft pick on a position that won’t play for 2 years outside of injury. That was the whole commotion, they tried to do two timelines and it may cost them in the short term (or pay off in the long run.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, NoSaint said: the Brady point being that there are exceptions to rules, but it’s not fun betting the house that you will also be the exception. I've been saying all along that the philosophy on offense will be "get open, catch ball." And they've been saying for awhile now that is no #1 WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 4 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: Mooney the #1 on the Bills? That's a bold statement...gonna need you to qualify that one. By what measure? Im not sure he cracks the top 3 in Buffalo, and definitely not the top 2. Dude is a stick with questionable hands. Sure, he is fast and pretty good with the ball in his hands...but come on. As for TE, Id say #1 TE is a wash, but who's there #2? That guy from SF? Drake London is probably better than what the Bills have, barring Keon Breakout (funny thing is, Drake London is probably best case Keon comp), but after that and Pitts/Kincaid wash, the Bills run away with this one. Also, this is TE and WR (per the sharp list) so not sure what RB has to do with anything. Um Darnell Mooney got $13M AAV. That’s more than any player on the Bills. Samuel, our #1 paid WR got $8M AAV. He put up 1k yards with a QB who can’t throw the ball. That’s better than any season any of the Bills WR’s have ever had. Do you think he got paid $5M more than Samuel because the NFL thought he was a worse player or a better player? Honest question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey152 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 (edited) 22 minutes ago, FireChans said: Um Darnell Mooney got $13M AAV. That’s more than any player on the Bills. Samuel, our #1 paid WR got $8M AAV. He put up 1k yards with a QB who can’t throw the ball. That’s better than any season any of the Bills WR’s have ever had. Do you think he got paid $5M more than Samuel because the NFL thought he was a worse player or a better player? Honest question. I had a feeling contract was going to be your response...That is super situational and team/player dependent. If I had to guess, it probably comes down to age and injury history, but I am not sure. For the record, I also think Samuel is better than Gabe Davis (who got 13 AAV, too) But since you brought up Samuel...aside from contract, please tell me all about how Mooney is a better player. Im genuinely curious. The last two seasons, Samuel has had more targets, catches, yards, touchdowns. He is also 20lbs heavier AND faster AND has better hands. Edited July 25 by Mikey152 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 4 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: I think this could be the year Allen breaks the TD record to different receivers in a season. Taiwan Jones ruined that a few years ago. With Allen throwing to a lot of new faces I wonder if the starters get more playing time in preseason. I understand we all want the Bills to get out of these games without injuries, but they have to develop some chemistry before week 1. While doing well in practice is great it can't substitute real game action against an opponent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, Mikey152 said: I had a feeling contract was going to be your response...That is super situational and team/player dependent. If I had to guess, it probably comes down to age and injury history, but I am not sure. For the record, I also think Samuel is better than Gabe Davis (who got 13 AAV, too) But since you brought up Samuel...aside from contract, please tell me all about how Mooney is a better player. Im genuinely curious. The last two seasons, Samuel has had more targets, catches, yards, touchdowns. He is also 20lbs heavier AND faster AND has better hands. I think contract/market or draft position is probably as close to objective as we can get as observers. Like we don’t argue that Coleman is better than MHJ, right? He might be, sure but we know that MHJ was WR1 in the draft and Coleman was not. So ultimately while contract isn’t perfect, and nothing is, what we do know is that Mooney commanded $5M more than Samuel despite worst numbers. Which would point to me that he had a higher market, which would also point to that he is thought of as more valuable. I like Samuel a lot. Him and Mooney were actually both my wishlist targets prior to the off-season. I thought Mooney was going to be completely undervalued by the league because he was held back by arguably the worst passer in the league. I was wrong, clearly the league saw what I saw, which is a guy who was held back by his garbage QB. So yes, I think Mooney would walk in as WR1 in this room. His 1k yard season with Fields was more impressive than Samuel’s 800 yard season. Imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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