WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 On 7/20/2024 at 10:53 AM, oldmanfan said: Absolutely. We’ll see how Brady wants to run his offense which in turn will tell us about how well our receiving corps functions. This is a slow response but it's something I've been noodling on a while. I'm in a place where I can believe -The Bills probably won't have a 1000+ yard receiver AND -The Bills can pick up more or less where they were at the end of last season if Brady schemes it right and have an offense to contend for a Super Bowl Both at the same time. How can I believe that? Well, the Chiefs didn't have anyone go over 1K and they won a Superbowl. Maybe that's the exception but I've been listening to a lot of smart people this off-season talk about some of the trends from last season where we saw a rise in heavier and condensed sets. That's what got the Niners, Rams and Lions going and I don't think anyone is even calling Stafford a top 5 QB in the league. I think there is a legitimate chance that there is less overall receiving talent, but having it used more effectively depending on the opponent. The game that I keep coming back to is that Dallas game. Yes, you don't need to be a genius to know running the football in a December rainstorm has perks but he identified that Dallas' entire scheme was going light and speedy, prioritizing the pass rush and relying on Dak to win a boat race. So not only did he cook up 6 OL, 2 back, 1 TE sets he wasn't afraid to keep spamming it because Dallas wouldn't or couldn't adjust. I can see that kind of matchup planning having dividends with the diverse WR Beane put together even if we don't suspect any of these guys will be top 10 receivers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Just now, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: This is a slow response but it's something I've been noodling on a while. I'm in a place where I can believe -The Bills probably won't have a 1000+ yard receiver AND -The Bills can pick up more or less where they were at the end of last season if Brady schemes it right and have an offense to contend for a Super Bowl Both at the same time. How can I believe that? Well, the Chiefs didn't have anyone go over 1K and they won a Superbowl. Maybe that's the exception but I've been listening to a lot of smart people this off-season talk about some of the trends from last season where we saw a rise in heavier and condensed sets. That's what got the Niners, Rams and Lions going and I don't think anyone is even calling Stafford a top 5 QB in the league. I think there is a legitimate chance that there is less overall receiving talent, but having it used more effectively depending on the opponent. The game that I keep coming back to is that Dallas game. Yes, you don't need to be a genius to know running the football in a December rainstorm has perks but he identified that Dallas' entire scheme was going light and speedy, prioritizing the pass rush and relying on Dak to win a boat race. So not only did he cook up 6 OL, 2 back, 1 TE sets he wasn't afraid to keep spamming it because Dallas wouldn't or couldn't adjust. I can see that kind of matchup planning having dividends with the diverse WR Beane put together even if we don't suspect any of these guys will be top 10 receivers. I have to repeat this point because I see it come up a lot- you mentioned the Chiefs, Rams, Niners, and Lions...those are the consensus top 4 offensive coaching staffs in the league. We just do not have that kind of acumen on hand 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Just now, GoBills808 said: I have to repeat this point because I see it come up a lot- you mentioned the Chiefs, Rams, Niners, and Lions...those are the consensus top 4 offensive coaching staffs in the league. We just do not have that kind of acumen on hand We are going to find out aren't we Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Just now, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: We are going to find out aren't we No, we already know. That's what's frustrating about this conversation It's fine to be optimistic. It's just flat out wrong to say Brady is as good as Reid or Shanahan or McVay or Johnson 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, GoBills808 said: No, we already know. That's what's frustrating about this conversation It's fine to be optimistic. It's just flat out wrong to say Brady is as good as Reid or Shanahan or McVay or Johnson No. You do not KNOW anything about next year. It hasn’t happened yet. . Edited July 23 by Augie 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 24 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: No, we already know. That's what's frustrating about this conversation It's fine to be optimistic. It's just flat out wrong to say Brady is as good as Reid or Shanahan or McVay or Johnson 21 minutes ago, Augie said: No. You do NOT know anything about next year. It hasn’t happened yet. Exactly. Look I not calling Brady the next offensive mastermind. But he came in mid season and welded some of the philosophies of the teams I mentioned on mid season. I am curious to see what he can do with a full off-season 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 38 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Exactly. Look I not calling Brady the next offensive mastermind. But he came in mid season and welded some of the philosophies of the teams I mentioned on mid season. I am curious to see what he can do with a full off-season We have a lot of Nostradamus wannabes on this board. If they were as good at predicting the future as they think, they would be on their private island sipping cocktails after making a fortune on Wall Street. So we’ll see how Brady does. The guys mentioned above all started at some point as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted July 24 Author Share Posted July 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: This is a slow response but it's something I've been noodling on a while. I'm in a place where I can believe -The Bills probably won't have a 1000+ yard receiver AND -The Bills can pick up more or less where they were at the end of last season if Brady schemes it right and have an offense to contend for a Super Bowl Both at the same time. How can I believe that? Well, the Chiefs didn't have anyone go over 1K and they won a Superbowl. Maybe that's the exception but I've been listening to a lot of smart people this off-season talk about some of the trends from last season where we saw a rise in heavier and condensed sets. That's what got the Niners, Rams and Lions going and I don't think anyone is even calling Stafford a top 5 QB in the league. I think there is a legitimate chance that there is less overall receiving talent, but having it used more effectively depending on the opponent. The game that I keep coming back to is that Dallas game. Yes, you don't need to be a genius to know running the football in a December rainstorm has perks but he identified that Dallas' entire scheme was going light and speedy, prioritizing the pass rush and relying on Dak to win a boat race. So not only did he cook up 6 OL, 2 back, 1 TE sets he wasn't afraid to keep spamming it because Dallas wouldn't or couldn't adjust. I can see that kind of matchup planning having dividends with the diverse WR Beane put together even if we don't suspect any of these guys will be top 10 receivers. THANK YOU! As I've said before, the versatility of this O is exciting, we can give so many different looks on O, in the run game, 2 TE, 3 -4 WR, all while the defense has to prepare for Allen's legs. Think about that, our oppent has a week or less to prepare for all this versatility, that has been the key with KC, they're so unpredictable and this unit definitely has the pieces to give defenses so many different looks and be extremely unpredictable week in n out Edited July 24 by JerseyBills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 7 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: THANK YOU! As I've said before, the versatility of this O is exciting, we can give so many different looks on O, in the run game, 2 TE, 3 -4 WR, all while the defense has to prepare for Allen's legs. Think about that, our oppent has a week or less to prepare for all this versatility, that has been the key with KC, they're so unpredictable and this unit definitely has the pieces to give defenses so many different looks and be extremely unpredictable week in n out Of particular note I've been curious about these confluences: -A rise in condensed formations which allow for easier pre-snap diagnosis, gives an off line WR a free release and are easier to switch to run plays on than the spread. -The Lions running something like 90% of plays out of 3 WR sets but still running effectively using Kupp & Nakua as blockers. -Kincaid as a mismatch depending on coverage -Similar (not equivalent but similar) play style and profile of CMC and Deebo Samuel in Cook and Curtis Samuel We have pieces of some of the most successful offenses from last year. Will it gel? We are going to find out. But that makes training camp more interesting to me not less. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 5 hours ago, GoBills808 said: No, we already know. That's what's frustrating about this conversation It's fine to be optimistic. It's just flat out wrong to say Brady is as good as Reid or Shanahan or McVay or Johnson Except it’s not. You don’t know, you think. There is a massive difference. Stop selling your guesses as a fact. Brady may flame out…or he may head the best offense in the league. You dont have a clue, just your biased opinion because we didn’t draft the WR you wanted or trade for the WR you wanted so your guess is that we are doomed. But you literally have no idea how well or poor Brady will do this year, just like the rest of us. PS: You also just compared Brady, an OC, to mostly head coaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 5 hours ago, GoBills808 said: No, we already know. That's what's frustrating about this conversation It's fine to be optimistic. It's just flat out wrong to say Brady is as good as Reid or Shanahan or McVay or Johnson Folks have memory-holed Brady’s previous OC stint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Except it’s not. You don’t know, you think. There is a massive difference. Stop selling your guesses as a fact. Brady may flame out…or he may head the best offense in the league. You dont have a clue, just your biased opinion because we didn’t draft the WR you wanted or trade for the WR you wanted so your guess is that we are doomed. But you literally have no idea how well or poor Brady will do this year, just like the rest of us. PS: You also just compared Brady, an OC, to mostly head coaches. And Peterman might get a start this season and go on to have a more successful career than Mahomes. You don't know what the future holds!!! But as of 11:09 PM Central Time, Peterman is a bum, Shanahan, McVay, Reid are the best offensive minds in the game and nothing about Brady's body of work to date suggests he will be considered in the same tier as the guys above. All of those guys got head coaching positions based on their prowess as innovative offense coordinators. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 30 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: And Peterman might get a start this season and go on to have a more successful career than Mahomes. You don't know what the future holds!!! But as of 11:09 PM Central Time, Peterman is a bum, Shanahan, McVay, Reid are the best offensive minds in the game and nothing about Brady's body of work to date suggests he will be considered in the same tier as the guys above. All of those guys got head coaching positions based on their prowess as innovative offense coordinators. Not true. Andy Reid was never an offensive coordinator. He was an offensive line coach, turned Quarterbacks coach. He got his Head Coach shot without ever having coordinated or called an offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 54 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: And Peterman might get a start this season and go on to have a more successful career than Mahomes. You don't know what the future holds!!! But as of 11:09 PM Central Time, Peterman is a bum, Shanahan, McVay, Reid are the best offensive minds in the game and nothing about Brady's body of work to date suggests he will be considered in the same tier as the guys above. All of those guys got head coaching positions based on their prowess as innovative offense coordinators. And got their first shot as an OC as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 1 hour ago, FireChans said: Folks have memory-holed Brady’s previous OC stint. He was bad in Carolina. There is no question about that. There were some mitigating factors.... the abomination of an offensive line he was handed was one, a poor head coach was another. But for an offense with DJ Moore, Robby Anderson, Curtis Samuel and Christian McCaffrey to struggle as much as it did is a poor reflection on him. But he was also the coordinator of the best offense in college football history. And he definitely made some good adjustments when he took over last year. The Bills offense was much cleverer and less predictable under him than under Dorsey. I think it is optimistic to believe he is a genius, but you only have to go back a few years and he was being talked about in those terms. He was the must have hotshot. I'm more optimistic about Brady than I am about the wide receiver room. I think there is more chance that he is really good than there is that we have a stud in that room. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: He was bad in Carolina. There is no question about that. There were some mitigating factors.... the abomination of an offensive line he was handed was one, a poor head coach was another. But for an offense with DJ Moore, Robby Anderson, Curtis Samuel and Christian McCaffrey to struggle as much as it did is a poor reflection on him. But he was also the coordinator of the best offense in college football history. And he definitely made some good adjustments when he took over last year. The Bills offense was much cleverer and less predictable under him than under Dorsey. I think it is optimistic to believe he is a genius, but you only have to go back a few years and he was being talked about in those terms. He was the must have hotshot. I'm more optimistic about Brady than I am about the wide receiver room. I think there is more chance that he is really good than there is that we have a stud in that room. He was not OC at LSU, he was passing game coordinator/wr coach And I think I could have managed to do that job w Burrow, Chase, and Justin Jefferson playing against college kids 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: He was not OC at LSU, he was passing game coordinator/wr coach And I think I could have managed to do that job w Burrow, Chase, and Justin Jefferson playing against college kids He was responsible for basically everything except the blocking assignments at LSU. The point about his talent is well made and it may well prove that was his high point and it was entirely a product of the talent. That is of course possible. I am not telling you Joe Brady is great but I think there are grounds for optimism with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: He was responsible for basically everything except the blocking assignments at LSU. The point about his talent is well made and it may well prove that was his high point and it was entirely a product of the talent. That is of course possible. I am not telling you Joe Brady is great but I think there are grounds for optimism with him. My original comment was simply to the effect that we can't reasonably compare our offensive staff to the Niners/Rams/Chiefs/Lions as we just don't stack up I'm assuming you don't want to argue that point 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: He was responsible for basically everything except the blocking assignments at LSU. The point about his talent is well made and it may well prove that was his high point and it was entirely a product of the talent. That is of course possible. I am not telling you Joe Brady is great but I think there are grounds for optimism with him. Well, well, well. How the turntables have...turned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Claude Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 (edited) 56 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: He was bad in Carolina. There is no question about that. There were some mitigating factors.... the abomination of an offensive line he was handed was one, a poor head coach was another. But for an offense with DJ Moore, Robby Anderson, Curtis Samuel and Christian McCaffrey to struggle as much as it did is a poor reflection on him. You can't really say he had McCaffrey. CMC only played 3 games in 2020. He played 7 games in 2021 but seemed hobbled even when he played. I am definitely not sold on Brady but Chosen and Samuel had career years in 2020 and Sam Darnold actually looked like a legitimate starting NFL QB for half a season. Edited July 24 by Billy Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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