hondo in seattle Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 We don't have an all-world receiving corps. But Shakir and Samuel are legit starters. We need one more. Between MVS, Claypool, and Coleman - there's a fair chance of them emerges as the third legit starter. And if teams do RB-by-committee, why not WR-by-committee? Andy Reid could get 4500+ yards out of this WR group. I'm hoping Brady can too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babulator Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 Given what we've seen and heard this year so far, and their respective histories and track records. I'm hoping we let MVS go, and hang onto Claypool. I know it's not necessarily an either or, but I'm not sure I see us keeping both and it feels like the media has been inking MVS on the final roster despite a relatively quiet showing thus far. I see one as having upside and the other as a liability. 2 cents from the peanut gallery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 1 hour ago, 34-78-83 said: FSU ran the ball 56.3% of the time in 2023. That is indeed a run heavy approach. I'm not trying to say that excuses Coleman's #'s mind you.... just facts. Your calculation is wrong. 33 rush attempts per game to 31 pass attempts is 52% rushing. Not 56.3%. And no, 52% is definitely not a "run heavy approach" at the CFB level. Teams run the ball more than pass the ball in CFB. Only one team in the entire ACC passed the ball more often than they ran it (Pittsburgh). FSU was the top offense but ran the ball the second least amount of times per game in the ACC. And mind you, @Eastport bills is the one who started in on ACC stats. Run heavy would be like Syracuse.........who averaged 24 pass attempts and 40 rush attempts (63%). Just 3 of 14 teams passed the ball more than they ran it in the SEC. Alabama was the most "run heavy" at 23 pass attempts and 40 rush attempts (64%). Run heavy teams run the ball about 60% of the time. FSU was far short of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Alabama was the most "run heavy" at 23 pass attempts and 40 rush attempts (64%). And even that was primarily due to the drop off at the QB position with Milroe (and the fact that he is a good runner), or so it would seem. 1 hour ago, FireChans said: Fire them both then? If it were up to me yes, McDermott would be fired. Beane is more of an afterthought imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 25 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: We don't have an all-world receiving corps. But Shakir and Samuel are legit starters. We need one more. Between MVS, Claypool, and Coleman - there's a fair chance of them emerges as the third legit starter. And if teams do RB-by-committee, why not WR-by-committee? Andy Reid could get 4500+ yards out of this WR group. I'm hoping Brady can too. Just a little note that last season, when the WR corps consisted of rookie Rice, Watson, Valdez-Scantling, and Skyy Moore, Reid did not get 4500 yds out of the WR group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: For sure McDermott drives the organisational goals. But Beane's drafting is what he grew up in the NFL with. Like it is ridiculously close to the exact drafting profile of Carolina (in terms of positional prioritisation). Maybe that is pure coincidence, but I think it is naive to believe that. I think unless you had someone really pressuring him to draft a different way this is who he is and this is how he would draft regardless of who the coach is. Would he work for a different Head Coach who was really pushing him to draft offense early way more often? Maybe. There are only 32 of these jobs. But I don't get the sense than Brandon Beane's priority is protecting his own ass. That has never been how he comes across to me. This. @HappyDays it echos a concern I've expressed a couple of times, at least once with snapshots of Carolina's roster build and how they prioritized (or didn't) the offense compared to what Beane has done. I don't follow college football enough to understand if it's the same as far as the tendency to draft high ceiling/low floor guys late in the 1st Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 12 minutes ago, Beck Water said: Just a little note that last season, when the WR corps consisted of rookie Rice, Watson, Valdez-Scantling, and Skyy Moore, Reid did not get 4500 yds out of the WR group. Good point. 4500 might have been the wrong number. But more, vaguely & metaphorically, I do believe if Andy Reid was our OC this season, he'd find a way to make lemonade with our lemons. It's not as if I have no worries about our receiving corps because I do. But I worry more about Brady. The offensive roster isn't ideal, but it has enough talent at the skill positions overall that Brady ought to be able to give us a good show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 12 minutes ago, Beck Water said: This. @HappyDays it echos a concern I've expressed a couple of times, at least once with snapshots of Carolina's roster build and how they prioritized (or didn't) the offense compared to what Beane has done. I don't follow college football enough to understand if it's the same as far as the tendency to draft high ceiling/low floor guys late in the 1st i dont see what the mystery here is you think beane is just following his own vision of how to build a team...that he learned from another GM who was similarly following his own vision? lol thats such a convoluted thought process panthers were built in the image of rivera, himself a defensive guy. his gms built the roster accordingly similarly his former dc turned hc in buffalo asks of his gm a similar approach. the idea that beane is out here just lodestoning his way around roster construction is wild 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 13 minutes ago, Beck Water said: This. @HappyDays it echos a concern I've expressed a couple of times, at least once with snapshots of Carolina's roster build and how they prioritized (or didn't) the offense compared to what Beane has done. I don't follow college football enough to understand if it's the same as far as the tendency to draft high ceiling/low floor guys late in the 1st I’m just spitballing here, to add to this as well as @GunnerBills post. Maybe, just maybe, he drafts for what his HCs philosophy is. Let’s not all forget he had Ron Rivera. The same guy that McDermott cut his teeth with. Let’s not assume that it’s Beanes practice or drafting, over drafting, and spending countless resources on defense on his own will. 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: i dont see what the mystery here is you think beane is just following his own vision of how to build a team...that he learned from another GM who was similarly following his own vision? lol thats such a convoluted thought process panthers were built in the image of rivera, himself a defensive guy. his gms built the roster accordingly similarly his former dc turned hc in buffalo asks of his gm a similar approach. the idea that beane is out here just lodestoning his way around roster construction is wild 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 7 hours ago, Bill from NYC said: Well, at least McDermott got him a receiver early in this draft (after trading down twice for minimal return). He showed Josh just how much he wanted to bring him weapons. You see? With McDermott calling the shots there is always good news. If DeWayne Carter and Cedric Van Pran turn out to be solid adds to the roster, we'll be taking your statement at face value and saying "yep, Good News!" Two things are possible: 1) Beane is wrong that there was ~ equal talent among the WR drafted at or after our original pick, and the guy(s) who stand out are not our guy 2) Beane is correct and /or Coleman is the pick of the lot No one knows as of yet But I can't shake the sense that the real issue for many here is that Beane failed to trade up into the top group that went with the first 10 picks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: i dont see what the mystery here is you think beane is just following his own vision of how to build a team...that he learned from another GM who was similarly following his own vision? lol thats such a convoluted thought process panthers were built in the image of rivera, himself a defensive guy. his gms built the roster accordingly similarly his former dc turned hc in buffalo asks of his gm a similar approach. the idea that beane is out here just lodestoning his way around roster construction is wild Just now, mrags said: I’m just spitballing here, to add to this as well as @GunnerBills post. Maybe, just maybe, he drafts for what his HCs philosophy is. Let’s not all forget he had Ron Rivera. The same guy that McDermott cut his teeth with. Let’s not assume that it’s Beanes practice or drafting, over drafting, and spending countless resources on defense on his own will. No idea what Beane has done to warrant such defense. If he’s just McD’s patsty and doing whatever he wants, what is his value? If he, more likely imo, was hired because he agrees with the same team-building strategy, then he’s gotta go too. Beane is not some brainwashed Stockholm syndrome DL hoarder. He has agency. It would be hysterical to watch the Bills fire McD, keep Beane and then go DL in the first for a few more years lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 1 minute ago, FireChans said: No idea what Beane has done to warrant such defense. If he’s just McD’s patsty and doing whatever he wants, what is his value? If he, more likely imo, was hired because he agrees with the same team-building strategy, then he’s gotta go too. Beane is not some brainwashed Stockholm syndrome DL hoarder. He has agency. It would be hysterical to watch the Bills fire McD, keep Beane and then go DL in the first for a few more years lol. Anyone involved with never drafting a WR or TE on day 1 or 2 the whole time we had Diggs can fck right off. Now the Allen-Diggs window is closed and it's way too little way too late. They ran this team like they wanted to make sure the other teams had a chance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 43 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: And even that was primarily due to the drop off at the QB position with Milroe (and the fact that he is a good runner), or so it would seem. If it were up to me yes, McDermott would be fired. Beane is more of an afterthought imo. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: No idea what Beane has done to warrant such defense. If he’s just McD’s patsty and doing whatever he wants, what is his value? If he, more likely imo, was hired because he agrees with the same team-building strategy, then he’s gotta go too. Beane is not some brainwashed Stockholm syndrome DL hoarder. He has agency. It would be hysterical to watch the Bills fire McD, keep Beane and then go DL in the first for a few more years lol. I’m not saying for fact that he does. We don’t know that and likely never will. They are a package deal imo and if one goes the other is gone too. he still has value tho. Just because McD says heavy on D and provides his “needs” at certain positions, doesn’t mean that Beane doesn’t pick the player he would prefer there. But that’s likely a team effort as well. im saying the argument could be made that Beane works with his HC and staff. He has stated it in the past in fact. My argument is that if his HC was an offensive minded HC, he would continue to have that team effort and you would see more emphasis on offense bs defense. JMO. and don’t you dare threaten that possibility that McD is fired and Beane still drafts DL early and often. I would run out of tears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 4 minutes ago, Beck Water said: If DeWayne Carter and Cedric Van Pran turn out to be solid adds to the roster, we'll be taking your statement at face value and saying "yep, Good News!" Two things are possible: 1) Beane is wrong that there was ~ equal talent among the WR drafted at or after our original pick, and the guy(s) who stand out are not our guy 2) Beane is correct and /or Coleman is the pick of the lot No one knows as of yet But I can't shake the sense that the real issue for many here is that Beane failed to trade up into the top group that went with the first 10 picks My thinking is that if you think a player is good enough, take him. If you like a player THAT much, why trade down not once but twice and for minimal return? In other words, McDermott took two chances on losing Coleman. I hope the kid is a superstar but if they were willing to gamble that much on losing out on him, how good should I expect him to be? How would you explain what happened? 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 43 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Agree that filling the void left by Diggs is what all the discussion boils down to. Let’s face it, sometimes navigating a difficult situation is, well, difficult. Sometimes a step back is necessary. That doesn’t always equate to a failure or mistake. As for Diggs, the guy who was a problem here and got traded away is the same guy we acquired via trade. Same movie. And I knew that was a possibility, but I was fully on board with acquiring him because of the upside. But this was the risk. If there was a real mistake made in the process it was the extension. I was against that. The rumblings were there already and we knew his history. Handing someone like that more money at that point is never the answer. While Diggs may have had to go, it seemed to highlight a failure to prepare. The strategy of going thin in the WR room has caught up with the Bills. From Elam over Watkins/Pickens to not picking up what looks to be a great value in DHop - there doesn't seem to have been much of a backup plan. Like you said they knew Diggs' history and yet they didn't put anything in the pipeline. Even after they knew they were in a rebuild they didn't pick up 2 WRs in the deep WR draft. I don't get that. It would be a lot more exciting to me if the Bills had picked up T Franklin at the end of the third to go with K Coleman. As it stands now it looks like WR is a glaring need for next year. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 Just now, mrags said: I’m not saying for fact that he does. We don’t know that and likely never will. They are a package deal imo and if one goes the other is gone too. he still has value tho. Just because McD says heavy on D and provides his “needs” at certain positions, doesn’t mean that Beane doesn’t pick the player he would prefer there. But that’s likely a team effort as well. im saying the argument could be made that Beane works with his HC and staff. He has stated it in the past in fact. My argument is that if his HC was an offensive minded HC, he would continue to have that team effort and you would see more emphasis on offense bs defense. JMO. and don’t you dare threaten that possibility that McD is fired and Beane still drafts DL early and often. I would run out of tears. One of things I liked about McD and Beane as a package was that they had a previous working relationship and appeared on the same page. It worked, to a point. The last thing I would want if you all got your wish of Ben Johnson in 2025 would be to saddle him with a dude that may be diametrically opposed to his team building philosophy. Think Whaley vs Marrone or Rex. If you’re gonna change gears, change gears all the way. Let two new guys in who are on the same page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 3 minutes ago, FireChans said: Why? Because imo, he has far too much power in the organization and he is too defense oriented, thus depriving a GREAT quarterback (the best we ever had), of weapons he could use to win us a Super Bowl. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 Just now, FireChans said: One of things I liked about McD and Beane as a package was that they had a previous working relationship and appeared on the same page. It worked, to a point. The last thing I would want if you all got your wish of Ben Johnson in 2025 would be to saddle him with a dude that may be diametrically opposed to his team building philosophy. Think Whaley vs Marrone or Rex. If you’re gonna change gears, change gears all the way. Let two new guys in who are on the same page. I’m not against it by any means. and I do like Ben Johnson, but I never said he was my wish. I just hate McDermott and want him gone and would prefer a money with a clipboard over him. talk about Stockholm syndrome btw. Pretty sure everyone here that still backs this coach has it. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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