This years STer that has no business playing on O/D

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I think we cut all of our core STers.  Not sure what OPs gripe is.  

 

I don't either.  Siran Neal couldn't cover Kelce as a 4th stringer.  Was our 2nd or 3rd stringer going to cover Kelce?  

All Pro's can't cover Kelce and I certainly hope we aren't relying on 3rd and 4th stringers to get us to the Super Bowl.

[Doc Brown]

With the new kickoff rule even more emphasis will be put on Special Teams haters.

[NewEra]

18 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I think we cut all of our core STers.  Not sure what OPs gripe is.  

Put on your glasses J.  Mack Hollins

18 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I think we cut all of our core STers.  Not sure what OPs gripe is.  

Put on your glasses J.  Mack Hollins

[Jerome007]

With the new kickoff rules, the ST player profiles could be very different, yet punts remain the same. It'll be tricky to figure out. Coaches better be watching some tapes and be ready!

Edited June 20 by Jerome007

[chongli]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Not a STer?

 

He is our backup holder.

[JerseyBills]

3 hours ago, uninja said:

Gable Stevenson is gonna start a playoff game at tackle because we lost Ed for the year

dude, why even put that into the universe smh

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

I think we cut all of our core STers.  Not sure what OPs gripe is.  

 

He's griping about Mack Hollins.  He outright says so in the OP

 

As for core ST'ers (not counting kicker/punter): 

Of the guys who played the top-10 ST snaps, we still have

1. Reggie Gilliam 84.9%

4. Cam Lewis 74.9%

5. Q Morris 72.6%

6. Dorian Williams 60.7%

7. Taylor Rapp 44.4%

9. Kingsley Jonathan 41.4%

 

Gone are #2 Tyler Matakevich, #3 Siran Neal, #8 Tyrel Dodson, and #10 Trent Sherfield.

 

I don't think OP is really beefing about guys who are "core STers" in the sense of playing a lot of ST snaps.  A number of those guys are on rookie contracts, like Dorian Williams, Baylon Spector, or Damar Hamlin.  Or, very cheap vet minimum contracts like Kingsley Jonathan and Reggie Morris.

 

OP is beefing about guys who are paid more than vet minimum or rookie scale and who primarily play ST, like Reggie Gilliam ($2.2M) or very slightly, Cam Lewis ($1.48M).

 

And of course now, Mack Hollins ($2.48M)

 

But ya know, an experienced backup by definition is not going to play at starter level at his offensive or defensive position.  Lewis is a valuable backup to the Bills because he can come in the game and play boundary corner or nickel.  Of course he's a drop off from Taron Johnson or Douglas/Benford, or else he wouldn't be the backup.  And the backups have toi play ST, or who else is gonna do it?

 

I'm not sure OP knows what his beef really is.

 

[Jauronimo]

9 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

He's griping about Mack Hollins.  He outright says so in the OP

 

As for core ST'ers (not counting kicker/punter): 

Of the guys who played the top-10 ST snaps, we still have

1. Reggie Gilliam 84.9%

4. Cam Lewis 74.9%

5. Q Morris 72.6%

6. Dorian Williams 60.7%

7. Taylor Rapp 44.4%

9. Kingsley Jonathan 41.4%

 

Gone are #2 Tyler Matakevich, #3 Siran Neal, #8 Tyrel Dodson, and #10 Trent Sherfield.

 

I don't think OP is really beefing about guys who are "core STers" in the sense of playing a lot of ST snaps.  A number of those guys are on rookie contracts, like Dorian Williams, Baylon Spector, or Damar Hamlin.  Or, very cheap vet minimum contracts like Kingsley Jonathan and Reggie Morris.

 

OP is beefing about guys who are paid more than vet minimum or rookie scale and who primarily play ST, like Reggie Gilliam ($2.2M) or very slightly, Cam Lewis ($1.48M).

 

And of course now, Mack Hollins ($2.48M)

 

But ya know, an experienced backup by definition is not going to play at starter level at his offensive or defensive position.  Lewis is a valuable backup to the Bills because he can come in the game and play boundary corner or nickel.  Of course he's a drop off from Taron Johnson or Douglas/Benford, or else he wouldn't be the backup.  And the backups have toi play ST, or who else is gonna do it?

 

I'm not sure OP knows what his beef really is.

 

OP has been raging about Core STers for years.  He has hated that we kept guys like Matakevich, Neal, and Taiwan Jones who were only signed for STs while we cut guys who might be able to contribute on offense or defense.  Hollins can play and will fight for the 5/6 WR.  I don't consider Hollins a core STer.  I'd say its a bonus that he can contribute on special teams.

[JohnNord]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

Every year, it seems like one of our career backup/ST guys end up playing in games where they really shouldn’t.

 

2023 was this phenomenon on overdrive in the playoffs, as we had Baylon Spector playing some LB, Siran Neal trying to cover Travis Kelce, Trent Sherfield alligator arms etc etc.

 

So who is going to be the patsy in 2024?  Hard mode: No Mack Hollins.

Injury luck, man.  You make it sound like they elected to play these guys.  

Baylon Spector would’ve been an upgrade over an AJ Klein off the couch who tried his hardest but was just too slow.  
 

Ditto for Sherfield who is far from ideal at WR2 (despite this, he played almost well as the Bills WR 1)   

 

[14774]

Injuries are going to force Gilliam into more of a conventional running FB role. And he's going to light it up.👍

[msw2112]

The Bills should not have backups or special teams players.  Every player on the roster should be a starter and an All-Pro.  What is it going to take for Brandon Beane to get the message?

[LABILLBACKER]

This year, last year, any year....

 

Cam Lewis

[PonyBoy]

Who are 3 people that never ate in my kitchen?

 

 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, 14774 said:

Injuries are going to force Gilliam into more of a conventional running FB role. And he's going to light it up.👍

 

Oh, I hope not.  

 

Not that I don't think the man deserves his propers.  He's done well when called upon.  78% catch % and some of those are routes, not pitches.

 

I just hate a prediction of injuries, so I got to give you the "thumbs down"

 

Sledge was used more in 2022, so I hope Brady has clever ideas about how to use him more *without* injuries.
 

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

OP has been raging about Core STers for years.  He has hated that we kept guys like Matakevich, Neal, and Taiwan Jones who were only signed for STs while we cut guys who might be able to contribute on offense or defense.  Hollins can play and will fight for the 5/6 WR.  I don't consider Hollins a core STer.  I'd say its a bonus that he can contribute on special teams.

 

Yeah, I thought so.  He hates that we've signed guys primarily for their ST chops, not that we have some "core STers" who are playing on rookie contracts or not much more, and who are developing players in the league, like Dorian Williams and Kingsley Jonathan, or who are budget backups the Bills developed, like Damar Hamlin and Quintin Morris, and have contributed when called upon.

 

The thing is some of the players who get hate, like Siran Neal, actually have specific (albeit limited) roles as rarely-used defensive starters.  Neal is our dime DB.  He doesn't get a lot of snaps because the Bills have barely played dime.  Gilliam is our fullback.  He doesn't get a lot of snaps because the Bills have spent most of their time in (1,1) sets and rarely (2,1).  So we really have only glimpses of how they play in their primary defensive or offensive role, but the glimpses we've gotten have been pretty effective, actually.

Edited June 20 by Beck Water

[Rocky Landing]

It would seem that at least for this season, the Bills are moving away from the ST-only players. But I never understood the problem people have had with guys like Siran, Taiwan, and Matakevich. They’d rather have poor ST play, so the Bills could carry a #6, or #7 WR, who would probably be inactive on game day, and would otherwise be carried on the practice squad?

 

Special Teams matter. Field position matters!

[FireChans]

5 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

OP has been raging about Core STers for years.  He has hated that we kept guys like Matakevich, Neal, and Taiwan Jones who were only signed for STs while we cut guys who might be able to contribute on offense or defense.  Hollins can play and will fight for the 5/6 WR.  I don't consider Hollins a core STer.  I'd say its a bonus that he can contribute on special teams.

 

[Dr.Sack]

I don’t know a core STer who doesn’t deserve a shot. On a side note - Tyler Bass has no business as our kicker on ST if he continues is downward spiral through camp. 

[Thurman#1]

13 hours ago, FireChans said:

Every year, it seems like one of our career backup/ST guys end up playing in games where they really shouldn’t.

 

2023 was this phenomenon on overdrive in the playoffs, as we had Baylon Spector playing some LB, Siran Neal trying to cover Travis Kelce, Trent Sherfield alligator arms etc etc.

 

So who is going to be the patsy in 2024?  Hard mode: No Mack Hollins.

 

 

 

I know no other teams end up having their third and fourth stringers not do all that well when injuries see them getting time.

 

It's only us.

[Rocky Landing]

37 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

I don’t know a core STer who doesn’t deserve a shot. On a side note - Tyler Bass has no business as our kicker on ST if he continues is downward spiral through camp. 

As good as Taiwan Jones was as a gunner (and he was really good), he was an absolutely terrible RB.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

As good as Taiwan Jones was as a gunner (and he was really good), he was an absolutely terrible RB.

 

Yes, Jones and Matakevich are the two we have had who really had no role other than teams. Otherwise Kumerow, Lewis, Neal, Sherfield etc have all had roles as backups.