How would Buffalo perform with Kirk Cousins?

[US Egg]

1 hour ago, PonyBoy said:

I don't think so..

Organizational & coaching differences..

I think Mahomes might be the Josh Allen in Buffalo..

Great yes, rings, probably not. 

 

Now that’s a thread that has been done.

[Lfod]

I was getting desperate to get Kirk before Josh was drafted. Glad it didnt work out the way I wanted. 

[Jauronimo]

We would be a 8-9 to 10-7 at best every year.  We would likely have 1 playoff win. 

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

You are dramatically understating how cushy the AFCE has been recently

Side note- how many people saying we'd be bad w cousins also voted that we have a top 1-4 team this year😂😂

Winner! That is what sort of prompted this thread. On one hand I was saying to myself how elite Beane is. On the other I felt like we would completely fold if something happened to Josh. I don't think both those statements can be true. Perhaps they can. I'm not sure. 

 

1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

It's your thread that you started. I'm just looking for any actual reasons or facts from you to justify your theory. All I see are unsupported opinions and generalities.

 

The fact is that they broke the playoff drought, with what everyone considered a poor QB, while playing average, bend-don't-break defense and having the number 4 running back. 

 

After drafting their guy and having another year to build around him, they get back to the playoffs in his 2nd year. Allen was still developing then. He was an above average QB in his 2nd year.

 

But with no reasons given, you think if they got Kirk Cousins (an above average QB) they would be even worse. 

 

 

Reality has shown us that there is clearly a winning process under this regime no matter who the QB is. With an above average QB like Cousins, they would be just fine.

The playoff season we were outscored by 57 points in the regular season. The year prior we had a +21 point differential. Have you ever heard of Pythagorean theorem? That’s all that season was. Us being on the right side of it. 

 

Minnesota had a 50-37 record with Cousins and made two playoff appearances. They made it to a divisional round game. They came into Buffalo and beat the Allen led Bills. With Allen we have basically ended up no further than Minnesota did with Cousins. So it’s not exactly a leaping conclusion to think if they swapped places we might produce a worse result.  

 

Teams with a 65 or better QBR out of the QB position are 211-73 since 2020. Allen has done that every year since that time. That’s a better record than we produced. If the argument is “we would have different players” with Cousins, which is what you tried to turn it into, well, shame on us. We shouldn’t be handicapping ourselves because we have an elite QB. 

 

It doesn't feel like it's a huge stretch to say a team with low end talent and a top 3 QB will hit a wall at the divisional playoffs. So while everybody wants to look for the 3rd gunman on the grassy knoll maybe we bow out at that time because we aren't that talented. I know that's a crazy thought. 

[Special K]

With Cousins, the Bills would be riding on the "Treadmill of Mediocrity":

 

[GoBills808]

56 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Winner! That is what sort of prompted this thread. On one hand I was saying to myself how elite Beane is. On the other I felt like we would completely fold if something happened to Josh. I don't think both those statements can be true. Perhaps they can. I'm not sure. 

 

The playoff season we were outscored by 57 points in the regular season. The year prior we had a +21 point differential. Have you ever heard of Pythagorean theorem? That’s all that season was. Us being on the right side of it. 

 

Minnesota had a 50-37 record with Cousins and made two playoff appearances. They made it to a divisional round game. They came into Buffalo and beat the Allen led Bills. With Allen we have basically ended up no further than Minnesota did with Cousins. So it’s not exactly a leaping conclusion to think if they swapped places we might produce a worse result.  

 

Teams with a 65 or better QBR out of the QB position are 211-73 since 2020. Allen has done that every year since that time. That’s a better record than we produced. If the argument is “we would have different players” with Cousins, which is what you tried to turn it into, well, shame on us. We shouldn’t be handicapping ourselves because we have an elite QB. 

 

It doesn't feel like it's a huge stretch to say a team with low end talent and a top 3 QB will hit a wall at the divisional playoffs. So while everybody wants to look for the 3rd gunman on the grassy knoll maybe we bow out at that time because we aren't that talented. I know that's a crazy thought. 

It's been very en vogue this off-season to act like Beane hasnt been supplying the team w enough talent...which clearly hasn't been the case as illustrated by our record in the regular season. He has neglected certain areas like WR sure...but to pretend a dearth of talent is the reason we haven't sniffed a Super Bowl yet is revisionist history

 

The reality is we'd still win the AFCE and probably scrape a couple wildcard wins together w Cousins ie basically very similar to what we've been doing, just w a lower point differential and playoff ceiling

[GoBills808]

3 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

It's your thread that you started. I'm just looking for any actual reasons or facts from you to justify your theory. All I see are unsupported opinions and generalities.

 

The fact is that they broke the playoff drought, with what everyone considered a poor QB, while playing average, bend-don't-break defense and having the number 4 running back. 

 

After drafting their guy and having another year to build around him, they get back to the playoffs in his 2nd year. Allen was still developing then. He was an above average QB in his 2nd year.

 

But with no reasons given, you think if they got Kirk Cousins (an above average QB) they would be even worse. 

 

 

Reality has shown us that there is clearly a winning process under this regime no matter who the QB is. With an above average QB like Cousins, they would be just fine.

I mean that's kind of the issue in a nutshell isn't it

 

We have a Josh Allen talent and a Kirk Cousins ceiling

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

It's been very en vogue this off-season to act like Beane hasnt been supplying the team w enough talent...which clearly hasn't been the case as illustrated by our record in the regular season. He has neglected certain areas like WR sure...but to pretend a dearth of talent is the reason we haven't sniffed a Super Bowl yet is revisionist history

 

The reality is we'd still win the AFCE and probably scrape a couple wildcard wins together w Cousins ie basically very similar to what we've been doing, just w a lower point differential and playoff ceiling

I really don’t think you need to be that talented to win the AFC East and a wild card game with a top 3 QB. So ultimately I don’t know how talented this team actually is. I’m not saying I know anything for sure. It’s just a little silly to me that on one hand many people say how talented we are and on the other people basically make it sound like without Josh we have no chance. We can’t be that talented if Allen is the entire team. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, Mikie2times said:

I really don’t think you need to be that talented to win the AFC East and a wild card game with a top 3 QB. So ultimately I don’t know how talented this team actually is. I’m not saying I know anything for sure. It’s just a little silly to me that on one hand many people say how talented we are and on the other people basically make it sound like without Josh we have no chance. We can’t be that talented if Allen is the entire team. 

2019-2023 the Bills literally have allowed the fewest points in the NFL. Less than Baltimore, San Francisco, everyone. I don’t know why people want to believe Josh has no help.

 

Over that same time Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, and Kirk Cousins are top 3 in TD passes. We’d be very good with Cousins, about the same in the regular season.

 

A better name to use is probably Ryan Tannehill or something. There would be a much bigger drop with Tannehill but we still probably win 2-3 AFC East titles with Tannehill, but we’re probably a ball control run first offense.

 

 

Edited June 19 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Alphadawg7]

7 hours ago, Billl said:

Diggs’s production leaped with Allen because his targets went from 94 to 166.  Allen’s obviously a much better QB than Cousins, but Stef also saw 80% more targets.

 

That is generally what happens when you upgrade at QB, a more dynamic and explosive QB who got him more targets and the ball more.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

That is generally what happens when you upgrade at QB, a more dynamic and explosive QB who got him more targets and the ball more.

Change in OC. Diggs went from 149 targets to 94 when run heavy Stefanski took over in 2019. He was also sharing WR1 duties with Theilen most of his time there.

Edited June 19 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Albany,n.y.]

We went through the whole Cousins stuff back in 2018 when he was a FA before we drafted Josh. I was against signing him then because he has always looked a lot better on paper than on the field. He makes too many mistakes at key moments and will never be a consistent winner. The Bills would be barely above .500 if Cousins had signed in 2018 and the McDermott haters would have celebrated the coach's firing years ago. 

[Gugny]

Same number of Super Bowl wins. 

[mushypeaches]

Good god, I can't imagine having to cheer for a stiff like Cousins, no matter how good his statistics say he is.

 

It was bad enough trying to root on Bledsoe for 3 years - every game was like throwing up in my mouth just a little bit

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They’d be good. Not sure how good. But the offense with Diggs and Cousins wouldn’t be terrible. People forget how great the defense has been since 2019.
 

Bills regular season points allowed rankings. 

 

2019 - 2nd

2020 - 16th

2021 - 1st

2022 - 2nd

2023 - 4th

I think the Bills win at least 2 division titles and maybe 3 with Cousins.

 

 

Yep completely agree. They'd still have been a very competitive team. Might have one division title fewer and a couple fewer playoff wins. But Kirk is a good QB and the Bills have been a very fundamentally sound, well coached, well built football team. The ceiling would just be a lot lower than with Josh.

 

EDIT: I'll add this as well, 3 or 4 of the drought teams make the playoffs with Cousins as their QB too.

Edited June 19 by GunnerBill

[H2o]

Cousins would have gotten murdered behind our OL. It truly has been a middling group AT BEST since JA has been here. It's not 2019, but they aren't top 10 either. JA's athleticism and escapability have made them look better than they truly are, all the time. Think about how many times he is basically running for his life a second and a half after the snap. Then he makes insane throws on top of it. Kirk has had some real talent around him during his time in Minnesota, more talent than Allen by far imo. I have said this time and time again, no QB has done more with less than Josh Allen. 

[Mr. WEO]

Forget Cousins, what about Jefferson?

[78thealltimegreat]

15 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Would the Bills be a much different team than the Vikings the last few years if we swapped QB's? 

 

I started thinking the other day "what if Josh got hurt". We would be done I thought. I considered if that meant anything. That from my perspective we had no ability to support the loss of Allen when perhaps other teams sort of could. Bengals, Vikings, stayed in the playoff radar all year last season. Flacco took the Browns to the playoffs. Others stayed in the mix more so than I would expect Buffalo to. 

 

I decided to move the goal posts. What if it wasn't Josh, what if it was, I don't know, Kirk Cousins?  Then what happens....

 

So not a back up but what the NFL feels is an above average QB.  So would Buffalo be as good as Minnesota has been with Kirk Cousins as a starting QB?  Again, I don't think they would. I think we could get to a wild card game but our ceiling would be no higher than the Vikings and in my opinion it would actually be lower. 

 

Curious what peoples thoughts are on this and if that says anything to them about the strength/development of our roster?

Cousins with this Bills team the last few years probably gets the team a wildcard birth but would get waxed by the Chiefs come the playoffs. Allen the last several years has masked many of the Bills short comings  especially on the offensive side of the ball such as the lack of a running game and no secondary receiving help he is not easily replaced

[78thealltimegreat]

5 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

2019-2023 the Bills literally have allowed the fewest points in the NFL. Less than Baltimore, San Francisco, everyone. I don’t know why people want to believe Josh has no help.

 

Over that same time Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, and Kirk Cousins are top 3 in TD passes. We’d be very good with Cousins, about the same in the regular season.

 

A better name to use is probably Ryan Tannehill or something. There would be a much bigger drop with Tannehill but we still probably win 2-3 AFC East titles with Tannehill, but we’re probably a ball control run first offense.

 

 

I highly doubt we’d match win totals with Cousins Allen’s mobility alone gets this team out of more jams then just about any qb in the league that’s not Kirks game.
 Not to mention Minnesotas skill talent has been far superior to Buffalos and their oline has been ranked much higher. 
I mean Kirk had an in his prime Dalvin Cook alone. 

[JP51]

14 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Bills would be noticeably worse with Cousins.  A huge part of the Bills offense has been Allen’s ability to mask a mediocre OL (or worse) and mediocre to non existent run game using his own legs in several of those years.  
 

Just look at how much Diggs production leaped with Allen.  

This... ^^^... Allen's ability to run makes an average OL better. Now with the shuffling of the OL I feel like Cousins would be in trouble. I think you have to spy Allen and play a lot of zone so he is accounted for I don't think that restriction would apply to a Cousins type QB. Just MO