Bass struggling at minicamp (and now at training camp)

[KingBoots8]

4 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Bass is now 21-23 in camp, after going 4-4 today with a long of 51. 

Pfft, if he was any good he’d be 25/23, because he would find a way to go the extra mile. GET THAT BUM OUTTA HERE! 😂

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, KingBoots8 said:

Pfft, if he was any good he’d be 25/23, because he would find a way to go the extra mile. GET THAT BUM OUTTA HERE! 😂

 

[folz]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

Well, despite your bestowed "bonafides"........they lack a pater familias, so to speak.

 

So for the first time in almost 40 years they have a WR corps without anyone who'd even put up a modest 900 yard receiving season.......and are generally considered near the bottom of the league as a unit by people who make a living predicting these things and setting odds for Vegas,  etc..

 

But yeah it must just be me. 

 

Sorry to hijack the Bass thread with WR talk, but...

 

First, the people making a living predicting these things are often wrong. If they were all former NFL GMs, coaches, and scouts, I might listen more, but most of them are former players (not all WRs and QBs---who might know how to evaluate the position or offenses) and talking heads (communications/broadcasting/journalism majors). Also, they are covering the entire NFL and so, they do not have a deep perspective on any one team (unless they root for them or played for them).

 

Secondly, of course our group is ranked low because we don't have that stud or a ton of proven production, as you said. With national media, it is always about household names and previous production. But, they are often slow to pick up on the trends in the NFL. Like how Green Bay and Kansas City have run their offenses over the last few seasons. Or the fact that Buffalo is going to rely more heavily on the run game this season than it did over the last 4-5 years. It is going to be a different style of offense, so you need different types of players. Plus, they ignore that Kincaid will most likely be our #1 target. Or the fact that with Josh Allen, what we really need are just guys that can hang on to the ball. We have had a lot of issues with drops over the last few years. Most of these guys are solid catchers (MVS excluded).

 

So, they aren't weighing in Kincaid's role (despite not being a WR). They don't really know Shakir yet. Curtis is a good player, but never had huge production. Coleman is slow and was a 2nd round draft pick, so he won't get the hype of some of the other receivers in the class. And the rest of the guys look like retreads (Hollins, MVS, Claypool, Hamler, Isabella) or they've never heard of them (Shavers, Shorter, Thompson, Johnson, Keys) . From the outside, sure it doesn't look great. But, that doesn't mean it won't/can't all come together and by the end of the season they will all be talking very differently about our playmakers. I don't expect any one of them to have gaudy numbers (1,200+ yards), but as a whole, with Josh spreading the ball out, and the defenses not being able to key on anyone specifically, I really think it will work. I think Kincaid, Shakir, Samuel, Coleman and Cook/Davis will be a very productive lineup. Last year Diggs had like 1,200 yards, Davis 746, and Shakir 611 (that was pretty much all of the WR production last year---Harty and Sherfield combined for 236 yards). What would be the difference if instead, Shakir, Coleman, and Samuel each had about 850 yards. No #1 with great numbers, but combined it would equate to the same amount of production (and there are still all of the other WRs and TEs in the mix).

 

As I keep saying, if nothing else, on a whole this wide receiver room is bigger, stronger, faster, and have better hands than last year's wide receivers. That can't be a bad thing. When you look at Stefon Diggs' stats over the last 10 games of last season (when the team was winning), they are pretty bad (last 10 games he averaged 4.7 receptions for 42.2 yards and only had 1 total TD over those 10 games---with a number of key drops and a fumble in the playoffs). Gabe also did very little except blocking during that stretch (and was out for the playoffs). Harty, Sherfield, and Isabella were useless. I really don't see how this year's room won't be a better overall unit, despite not having a "true #1" wide receiver. I am actually much more confident of this group than last season's, when looking back at last year with 20/20 perspective.

 

And lastly, I know that draft placement isn't everything, but it's not like we don't have talent (a bunch of low draft picks and walk-ons). These guys might not have all reached their potential, but they aren't lacking talent/athleticism: Kincaid, (1st round, #25), Coleman (2nd round, #33), Samuel (2nd round, #40), Hamler (2nd round, #46), Claypool (2nd round, #49), Knox (3rd round, #96), Hollins (4th round, #118), Shakir (5th round, #148), MVS (5th round, #174).

[buffblue]

2 hours ago, sullim4 said:

 

Maybe I'll get raked over the coals for this... but I think Lindell and Carpenter were the better kickers, at least in terms of their tenure in Buffalo.  Carpenter crashed and burned towards the end, but he was extremely solid in the early half of his career here.  Re: Hauschka, there's a reason they went after Bass in the first place.

Hauschka lost his leg strength in 2019, so you are correct that's why they went in a different direction. The Bills basically couldn't kick anything beyond 50 that season. That said, he still always felt reliable on the gimme attempts.

 

And I agree that Lindell and Carpenter were both pretty solid overall. I think Bass is clearly the worst of the 4. The only one Bass has a better fg percentage on with the Bills is Hauschka, yet Hausch money was a better clutch kicker and more reliable in the 30-49 yard distance (85.2% vs 83.7% for Bass). Bass is also an abysmal 89.2% on PAT's and 70.6% on FG for his career in the postseason. 

 

I understand Bass's contract (which was an ill advised decision even prior to last season) is an issue and we are tight on cap space, but bringing in an UDFA to challenge him at the least should have happened. That's where most kickers in the league get started so it's not like the Bills would've had to invest some premium resource. Hell, we brought in Jack Browning to challenge Sam Martin, and punter to me is a far less serious concern than kicker 🤷

Edited August 5 by buffblue

[ColoradoBills]

Some of Bass's kicks last year were quite concerning.  I had hoped they would have brought in camp competition.

I thought in the long run it would help Bass focus.

 

He has done well so far in camp.  The real test will begin with the preseason games.

[Augie]

36 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Some of Bass's kicks last year were quite concerning.  I had hoped they would have brought in camp competition.

I thought in the long run it would help Bass focus.

 

He has done well so far in camp.  The real test will begin with the preseason games.

 

The real test will be when he has that 50 yard FG to win the SB against the 49ers. Chris Berman will see his dream come true, and we will get our first trophy. You heard it here first. 

 

 

 

….and probably last.  🤷‍♂️

[ColoradoBills]

Just now, Augie said:

 

The real test will be when he has that 50 yard FG to win the SB against the 49ers. Chris Berman will see his dream come true, and we will get our first trophy. You heard it here first. 

 

 

 

….and probably last.  🤷‍♂️

 

Sounds awesome to me.  I'm going to hold you to this prediction!

[Augie]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Sounds awesome to me.  I'm going to hold you to this prediction!

 

That’s fine, as long as you click on something that profits me. I think I’m figuring this crap out!   

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, folz said:

 

Sorry to hijack the Bass thread with WR talk, but...

 

First, the people making a living predicting these things are often wrong. If they were all former NFL GMs, coaches, and scouts, I might listen more, but most of them are former players (not all WRs and QBs---who might know how to evaluate the position or offenses) and talking heads (communications/broadcasting/journalism majors). Also, they are covering the entire NFL and so, they do not have a deep perspective on any one team (unless they root for them or played for them).

 

Secondly, of course our group is ranked low because we don't have that stud or a ton of proven production, as you said. With national media, it is always about household names and previous production. But, they are often slow to pick up on the trends in the NFL. Like how Green Bay and Kansas City have run their offenses over the last few seasons. Or the fact that Buffalo is going to rely more heavily on the run game this season than it did over the last 4-5 years. It is going to be a different style of offense, so you need different types of players. Plus, they ignore that Kincaid will most likely be our #1 target. Or the fact that with Josh Allen, what we really need are just guys that can hang on to the ball. We have had a lot of issues with drops over the last few years. Most of these guys are solid catchers (MVS excluded).

 

So, they aren't weighing in Kincaid's role (despite not being a WR). They don't really know Shakir yet. Curtis is a good player, but never had huge production. Coleman is slow and was a 2nd round draft pick, so he won't get the hype of some of the other receivers in the class. And the rest of the guys look like retreads (Hollins, MVS, Claypool, Hamler, Isabella) or they've never heard of them (Shavers, Shorter, Thompson, Johnson, Keys) . From the outside, sure it doesn't look great. But, that doesn't mean it won't/can't all come together and by the end of the season they will all be talking very differently about our playmakers. I don't expect any one of them to have gaudy numbers (1,200+ yards), but as a whole, with Josh spreading the ball out, and the defenses not being able to key on anyone specifically, I really think it will work. I think Kincaid, Shakir, Samuel, Coleman and Cook/Davis will be a very productive lineup. Last year Diggs had like 1,200 yards, Davis 746, and Shakir 611 (that was pretty much all of the WR production last year---Harty and Sherfield combined for 236 yards). What would be the difference if instead, Shakir, Coleman, and Samuel each had about 850 yards. No #1 with great numbers, but combined it would equate to the same amount of production (and there are still all of the other WRs and TEs in the mix).

 

As I keep saying, if nothing else, on a whole this wide receiver room is bigger, stronger, faster, and have better hands than last year's wide receivers. That can't be a bad thing. When you look at Stefon Diggs' stats over the last 10 games of last season (when the team was winning), they are pretty bad (last 10 games he averaged 4.7 receptions for 42.2 yards and only had 1 total TD over those 10 games---with a number of key drops and a fumble in the playoffs). Gabe also did very little except blocking during that stretch (and was out for the playoffs). Harty, Sherfield, and Isabella were useless. I really don't see how this year's room won't be a better overall unit, despite not having a "true #1" wide receiver. I am actually much more confident of this group than last season's, when looking back at last year with 20/20 perspective.

 

And lastly, I know that draft placement isn't everything, but it's not like we don't have talent (a bunch of low draft picks and walk-ons). These guys might not have all reached their potential, but they aren't lacking talent/athleticism: Kincaid, (1st round, #25), Coleman (2nd round, #33), Samuel (2nd round, #40), Hamler (2nd round, #46), Claypool (2nd round, #49), Knox (3rd round, #96), Hollins (4th round, #118), Shakir (5th round, #148), MVS (5th round, #174).

 

 

1) We aren't talking about the same thing.   The "talking heads" aren't providing in-depth analysis/grades or setting the money lines.    For instance,  the Bills only have 1 WR projected to finish in the top 60 in the NFL in receiving yards (Keon Coleman at roughly #57) with gaming sites like Fanduel, Draftkings, Bet Rivers etc..   

 

2) Yeah the WR group is ranked low because they don't have a star who commands extra attention from the defense.   Which immediately allows the opposing defense to be a lot more aggressive/creative/deceptive.    The narrative that not having difference makers somehow makes an offense more dangerous than if it did is a work of fiction worthy of some of the drought-era nonsense that used to get pushed here on TSW.  

 

The rest of your post is a lot of Kincaid this and Kincaid that.   Kincaid is not a WR.   Nor is dishpan-hands Cook.   Kincaid elevates their overall group of playmakers from near the very bottom to the low-to-mid 20's relative to what other teams have.    When you add the great Josh Allen,  that should still be a good offense.   But the objective isn't just to be a "good" offense at any point in Josh Allen's prime.   When you have the second best QB in football the goal is to be great.   Especially with the road they have this season.   Like I said.........going to need A LOT of touchdowns.   

[Billy Claude]

1 hour ago, buffblue said:

Hauschka lost his leg strength in 2019, so you are correct that's why they went in a different direction. The Bills basically couldn't kick anything beyond 50 that season. That said, he still always felt reliable on the gimme attempts.

 

 

 

Hauschka already started fading in 2018 but the 2017 season might been the best season ever by a Bills kicker.  His percentage was very good though not great (29 out of 33 for 87.9%), but he hit 7 out of 9 from 50+ yards and all his misses were from over 40 yards.  He also set the record for NFL consecutive fgs over 50 yards that season and was special team player of the week twice.  None of his misses cost the Bills games since three were in Bills victories and the other miss was in a 37-16 lost to the Patriots.  He was also 100% on PATs that season and was 1 for 1 in the playoff game.

 

You might argue he was the most important Bills player in the 2017 playoff run.

 

 

Edited August 6 by Billy Claude

[buffblue]

13 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

 

 

Hauschka already started fading in 2018 but the 2017 season might been the best season ever by a Bills kicker.  His percentage was very good though not great (29 out of 33 for 87.9%), but he hit 7 out of 9 from 50+ yards and all his misses were from over 40 yards.  He also set the record for NFL consecutive fgs over 50 yards that season and was special team player of the week twice.  None of his misses cost the Bills games since three were in Bills victories and the other miss was in a 37-16 lost to the Patriots.  He was also 100% on PATs that season and was 1 for 1 in the playoff game.

 

You might argue he was the most important Bills player in the 2017 playoff run.

 

 

I completely agree. The Atlanta game in week 4 where he made two 55 plus yarders coming down the stretch was incredible. His clutch kicking propelled the Bills that season

[NewEra]

Good lord- here we go again……in the kicker thread.  
 

 

[Brand J]

I’ve got one for you all… would you rather:

 

A) Depend on Bass to hit a 52 yarder to win the Super Bowl? 
 

or

 

B) Take your chances with the opposing kicker (could be any of them) and require that he makes a 52 yarder to beat the Bills and win a championship?

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Brand J said:

I’ve got one for you all… would you rather:

 

A) Depend on Bass to hit a 52 yarder to win the Super Bowl? 
 

or

 

B) Take your chances with the opposing kicker (could be any of them) and require that he makes a 52 yarder to beat the Bills and win a championship?

How much time is left and how many timeouts

 

Because I'd rather go for it on 4th and 15 than rely on bass rn all things being equal

[Brand J]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

How much time is left and how many timeouts

 

Because I'd rather go for it on 4th and 15 than rely on bass rn all things being equal

It’d be the same scenario for both kickers: the ball is at the 35 yard line, :04 left, down by 2. The conditions are perfect, minimal wind. Which kicking unit would you rather see on the field - the one that could win the game (Bills), or the one that could beat you (opponent)?

[GoBills808]

32 minutes ago, Brand J said:

It’d be the same scenario for both kickers: the ball is at the 35 yard line, :04 left, down by 2. The conditions are perfect, minimal wind. Which kicking unit would you rather see on the field - the one that could win the game (Bills), or the one that could beat you (opponent)?

Gross

 

Probably bass 

[H2o]

47 minutes ago, Brand J said:

I’ve got one for you all… would you rather:

 

A) Depend on Bass to hit a 52 yarder to win the Super Bowl? 
 

or

 

B) Take your chances with the opposing kicker (could be any of them) and require that he makes a 52 yarder to beat the Bills and win a championship?

I'd take my chances with Bass kicking it. I'd rather have Bass win it than hope the other team loses it. 

[Neo]

On 8/5/2024 at 10:47 PM, H2o said:

I'd take my chances with Bass kicking it. I'd rather have Bass win it than hope the other team loses it. 

Here’s another one.   One minute left in the Super Bowl.  Bills, down two points and on the opponent’s thirty.  It’s 4th and seven.   Do you go for it on fourth down, or send Bass in to kick a forty seven yard FG?

 

I go for the first down.

[LABILLBACKER]

22 minutes ago, Neo said:

Here’s another one.   One minute left in the Super Bowl.  Bills, down two points and on the opponent’s thirty.  It’s 4th and seven.   Do you go for it on fourth down, or send Bass in to kick a forty seven yard FG?

 

I go for the first down.

With 1 min. left we're probably losing anyway with our useless playoff D.

[Neo]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

With 1 min. left we're probably losing anyway with our useless playoff D.

So, what’s your choice?