Bass struggling at minicamp (and now at training camp)

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, Chaos said:

The chiefs recognize the value of a kicker. It’s not just percentage. The kicker determines how much of the field is scoring range.  

 

Everyone recognizes the value of a kicker.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

The Chargers with Philip Rivers were once in a playoff game with the Jets where the Chargers kicker Nate kaeding missed 3 kicks in that same playoff game.

 

The Chargers were hugely favored in that playoff game and lost because of the kicker.

 

It looks like Josh's career is following the same trajectory as Philip Rivers at this point.

 

I'm very sorry.

Edited June 14 by JakeFrommStateFarm

[paulmm3]

Well, I just finished writing about how I'd give Beane an "A" grade on the job he's done, but the Bass signing was baffling. Bass has never been an especially good kicker by any objective metric and now we're tied to him by virtue of an overpaid, un-cuttable contract. Unless you have Justin Tucker there's no reason to contractually tie yourself to a kicker for multiple years. At least if it's a multi-year deal, structure it so there's not so much dead money if they're cut

[I Am The Liquor]

56 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

The Chargers with Philip Rivers were once in a playoff game with the Jets where the Chargers kicker Nate kaeding missed 3 kicks in that same playoff game.

 

The Chargers were hugely favored in that playoff game and lost because of the kicker.

 

It looks like Josh's career is following the same trajectory as Philip Rivers at this point.

 

I'm very sorry.

[Chaos]

15 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Everyone recognizes the value of a kicker.

Bills have 20 yards less scroing range than the Chiefs because of the difference in kicker talent. Yet the Bills don't address this gap. 

[Billy Claude]

Little bit of topic but if you felt the Bills were unlucky last year you were right.  Opposition kickers hit 93.5% of kicks against the Bills in 2023.  OTOH, opposition kickers only hit 64% against the Bills in 2019.  That was the year the other team's kickers kept getting cut right after the Bills game.  Just shows you how big a role luck plays in the NFL.

 

Just thought it was an interesting tidbit.

Edited June 15 by Billy Claude

[Donuts and Doritos]

Cut him & the punter. Get another player on O & D. Go for it every time & always go for 2. There fixed. What could go wrong?

[Strethor]

I would rather have him struggle now, and either rise and get it together or get someone in that can do the job. I hope they leverage a sports psychologist 

[Mikie2times]

Bates, the UFL kicker signed with the Lions. He worked out for the Lions, Redskins, and Packers. I don’t understand why we won’t even look at guys. It’s like every position we have is open for competition but that one. If a little competition rattles Bass he isn’t right for it.

Edited June 18 by Mikie2times

[ColoradoBills]

20 hours ago, boater said:

The decision to cut Bass would be a collaboration of Beane and McDermott.

 

At this moment in time, Beane is probably saying No to cutting Bass, for all the salary cap reasons discussed here.

 

It cost next to nothing to bring in a camp leg to compete.  IF the wheels fall off of Bass this year at least you have a player familiar with the team.

I think Beane and McDermott are wrong on no camp competition.

[boater]

4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

It cost next to nothing to bring in a camp leg to compete.  IF the wheels fall off of Bass this year at least you have a player familiar with the team.

I think Beane and McDermott are wrong on no camp competition.

That's a valid point. Without busting the cap, they could have brought in a UDFA to spur competition. Camp fodder.

 

It's too late now, even the kickers only semi-decent are signed somewhere.

[ColoradoBills]

15 minutes ago, boater said:

That's a valid point. Without busting the cap, they could have brought in a UDFA to spur competition. Camp fodder.

 

It's too late now, even the kickers only semi-decent are signed somewhere.

 

It's never too late to bring in someone.  Lots of kicker from the last 2 drafts sitting around the house.

[SirAndrew]

Flipping TV channels, and just watched Bass miss an extra point in the 2020 AFCG. He’s been unreliable for quite a while. I don’t care about the cap, you can’t have a guy that makes an extra point an adventure. 

[Billy Claude]

The problem with new kickers is always you never know if they are any good until you throw them into actual games and by that time it is too late.  Look at how many kickers the Jets have gone through the last 4 years or so until they seem to have finally found someone reasonable.

 

Of course, if Bass continues to have issues during practice it would be malpractice on Beane's part to not bring someone else in to compete.

[philholbroo]

get bojorquez

 

[Dan Darragh]

On 6/13/2024 at 6:26 AM, The Firebaugh Kid said:

It makes you wonder. Maybe somebody with a lot of time on their hands could dig up the statistics on his kicks when Martin was not the holder? 
Tyler was so good it really is a shame. 

Here are Tyler's kicking stats for the two seasons Martin was his holder:

 

Bass' problem last year was his playoff production.  He was 2 for 5 for a 40.0% success rate, including a miss inside 30 yards and no attempts from 50+. I doubt that's related to Martin.  He also disappointed in the 2020 playoffs, going 1 for 3 in 40-49 yard range.  (In '22 playoffs he was 3 for 3 and in '21 he had no FG attempts.)

[Billy Claude]

1 hour ago, Dan Darragh said:

Here are Tyler's kicking stats for the two seasons Martin was his holder:

 

Bass' problem last year was his playoff production.  He was 2 for 5 for a 40.0% success rate, including a miss inside 30 yards and no attempts from 50+. I doubt that's related to Martin.  He also disappointed in the 2020 playoffs, going 1 for 3 in 40-49 yard range.  (In '22 playoffs he was 3 for 3 and in '21 he had no FG attempts.)

 

The stats don't tell the whole story, it wasn't just the playoffs.   After the Giants and Patriots game, McDermott lost confidence in him and Bass did not attempt a 50+ yarder in the last 14 games (12 reg + 2 playoffs) after attempting 6 in his first 5 games. In fact, Bass finished the regular season on a 6 for 6 streak which would seem to be pretty decent but all 6 were under 40 yards.

 

Definitely agree that its hard to pin this on the holder unless Martin suddenly got terrible at holding in the middle of his 10th season in the league.   There was a lot of speculation at the time that Bass was dealing with an injury. Either a undisclosed injury or the yips seem much more likely to me than holding issues.

 

Overall he was 7 for 9 in the 2020 playoffs so he was 10 for 12 (83.3%) from 2020 to 2022 which is not good but not terrible.  Adding in last years playoffs he was 12 for 17 (70.5%) which is terrible.  He has also been surprisingly bad at extra points in the playoffs going 26 for 29 (89.7%) and was only 9 for 11 with hold-god Matt Haack in the 2021 playoffs.

 

Edited June 16 by Billy Claude

[dave mcbride]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:25 PM, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

The Chargers with Philip Rivers were once in a playoff game with the Jets where the Chargers kicker Nate kaeding missed 3 kicks in that same playoff game.

 

The Chargers were hugely favored in that playoff game and lost because of the kicker.

 

It looks like Josh's career is following the same trajectory as Philip Rivers at this point.

 

I'm very sorry.

You are absolutely right about that game. And over the years in the Rivers era it felt like they lost a dozen or so games they should have won because of kicking failures.

On 6/16/2024 at 11:08 AM, Billy Claude said:

 

The stats don't tell the whole story, it wasn't just the playoffs.   After the Giants and Patriots game, McDermott lost confidence in him and Bass did not attempt a 50+ yarder in the last 14 games (12 reg + 2 playoffs) after attempting 6 in his first 5 games. In fact, Bass finished the regular season on a 6 for 6 streak which would seem to be pretty decent but all 6 were under 40 yards.

 

Definitely agree that its hard to pin this on the holder unless Martin suddenly got terrible at holding in the middle of his 10th season in the league.   There was a lot of speculation at the time that Bass was dealing with an injury. Either a undisclosed injury or the yips seem much more likely to me than holding issues.

 

Overall he was 7 for 9 in the 2020 playoffs so he was 10 for 12 (83.3%) from 2020 to 2022 which is not good but not terrible.  Adding in last years playoffs he was 12 for 17 (70.5%) which is terrible.  He has also been surprisingly bad at extra points in the playoffs going 26 for 29 (89.7%) and was only 9 for 11 with hold-god Matt Haack in the 2021 playoffs.

 

In the Philly game this year - the one where Elliott kicked the 58 yarder in the wind and rain to tie the game — pat mcafee said before the game that all of bass’s practice kicks from 55 yards out in pre-game were falling 5-10 short of the goal post and that bills fans should not expect to see any long kicks. He is a PROBLEM.

Edited June 18 by dave mcbride

[Billy Claude]

4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

 

In the Philly game this year - the one where Elliott kicked the 58 yarder in the wind and rain to tie the game — pat mcafee said before the game that all of bass’s practice kicks from 55 yards out in pre-game were falling 5-10 short of the goal post and that bills fans should not expect to see any long kicks. He is a PROBLEM.

 

As someone who never understood why people thought Bass was elite, the fact that he his practice kicks were falling short was the strongest evidence that it was an unreported injury and not the yips.

 

 

[NoSaint]

21 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

 

As someone who never understood why people thought Bass was elite, the fact that he his practice kicks were falling short was the strongest evidence that it was an unreported injury and not the yips.

 

 

I just don’t understand if it’s injury related how they didn’t put anyone on the practice squad at least. 
 

just wild to me that they stopped even attempting kicks that should be in the realm of basic expectation but did nothing to try to address it. 
 

it’s another of the simple but glaring red flags that I wish we could know the story behind.