Mandatory Minicamp

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

I’ll have no ideas other than those of other people until we start playing actual football in the Fall. I can’t get wrapped up in a few days in June, but you obviously hope for good news. The big thing for me during all team activities before the opener is “DON’T GET HURT!” 

 

So what about Shakir?  Is he OK?

[Beck Water]

On 6/11/2024 at 1:40 PM, BillsFooteball said:

It’s early but I find this concerning especially with questions most of us had at WR going into season. I believe it’s a bottom of the end group in the league and hearing a bill reporters say they looked like a mess, poor routes, dropped passes isn’t really reassuring 

 

Well, first of all, like Josh Allen said, we have 3 months before they play football for real.   So I wouldn't get too riled up.

 

Second, it's really hard to tell from limited reports what's going on

 

For example, here's a glimpse of Coleman:
 

Quote

On the field, Coleman has been a consistent target of quarterback Josh Allen in spring workouts. Coleman caught the first pass of 11-on-11 team work, a quick slant on Wednesday.
 

Later, Coleman made a nice, leaping grab over Douglas along the sideline from Allen. Three plays later, Coleman and Allen were off target on an in-breaking route, and Kaiir Elam anticipated the throw for an interception. It looked like there either was a miscommunication on the play or Coleman didn’t finish the route. It was the second interception in two days for Elam.
 

In 7-on-7 work, Douglas had a quick close on the ball and a breakup of a hitch route for Coleman. But then Allen hit Coleman on a quick out pattern.

So, growing pains, some good some bad.


 

 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Updates from Matt Parrino. Sounds like the offense was much better today, good to see.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Panic time?

[KingBoots8]

1 minute ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

Panic time?

Been panicking since 1960…

 

I was born in 86.

[FireChans]

46 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Ok, thats fair, I was talking with someone else originally so I didn't connect that context in your reply, I get it now.  I also didn't say they didn't win...I asked how many playoff games did they win and how the highest priced WR's aren't a guarantee for a Super Bowl let alone a prerequisite.

 

I still disagree with your application given its missing 2 of our offensive young and important players in Kincaid (who isn't being counted as he is a TE and Keon because he just signed his contract today so I can't see how they can have his salary in there already) and arguably our best WR is Shakir who is playing on a 5th round rookie contract that is not reflective of his talent.  Then you have Claypool playing on a small prove it deal not reflective of is talent, but fairly reflective of how his immaturity sank his stock.  

 

So I don't think you can conclude low AAV always is indicative of less talent.  Just like you wouldn't say the Bengals had weak or mediocre talent when both Chase and Higgins were on rookie deals.  

That’s true, you can’t say AAV is necessarily indicative of less talent.

 

And rookie deals do provide a significant difference, like Green Bay who has a very cheap room with 5 players on rookie deals.

 

When Chase and Higgins were on their rookie deals though, they also had Boyd making decent money. Which is reflected in their AAV not being near the bottom.

 

The bottom line if the Bills win in divisional round this season, it would be the best season in recent years with a low AAV WR group.

Keon’s salary was added this afternoon. We were originally 5th lowest, now we are 6th lowest.

 

[78thealltimegreat]

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Josh’s favorite food is a turnover. 

Think of that as one all yourself or are you just checking out dolphins fans twitter feeds 

[NewEra]

11 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Like I said it's not about the individual reps. A drop here or a miscommunication there is normal. What worries me is that Tyrell Shavers and Andy Isabella and KJ Hamler are getting 1st team reps. I'm sorry but that represents a failure of the Bills team building process. These should all be practice squad fodder, not legitimate competitors for starting snaps.

Do you think Isabella, hamler and shavers are legitimate competitors for starting snaps?

10 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Are the Bills ahead of the curve again?  Those foolish teams with established guys like Tyreek/Waddle or G Wilson/K Allen, Chase/Higgins - that's so last year.

No, last year was Rashee Rice, MVS and Justin Hardy 

[Dr.Sack]

I hear Bass had a bad practice today. 

[Jauronimo]

48 minutes ago, FireChans said:

All would be very good counterpoints as long as your prevailing thesis of the offseason isn't, "no expensive WR rooms have ever won a championship."

That isn't my thesis.  Its a passing league and KC won in spite of having a weak WR room last year.  WR was a weakness last year for us and until proven otherwise it remains a weakness in my opinion. 

 

I do like that we have most of the roles covered with this group. We have some size in Hollins, Coleman, and maybe Claypool.  We have one real field stretcher in MVS, and Hamler, Claypool also have that ability.  Shakir has the after the catch play making ability and I expect he and Kincaid to move the chains.  The only role we don't have is one guy who is really good who can face #1 CBs, consistently get open, and beat man coverage.  Turns out that role is pretty important.

[Beck Water]

The talk is not particularly novel or insightful, but I found this interesting for the extra footage of the various receivers.

 

 

[The Jokeman]

17 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I don't care about the contract, get another kicker and or punter in here asap.

 

 

We might have an all in one in that kid we signed from SDSU. 

[MikePJ76]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5560237/2024/06/13/bills-minicamp-kaiir-elam-keon-coleman/

 

• Wide receiver Khalil Shakir did not participate in practice on Wednesday after suffering a lower body injury in practice on Tuesday. He was working off to the side and seemed to be in a good mood.

Edited June 13 by MikePJ76

[Beck Water]

31 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5560237/2024/06/13/bills-minicamp-kaiir-elam-keon-coleman/

 

• Wide receiver Khalil Shakir did not participate in practice on Wednesday after suffering a lower body injury in practice on Tuesday. He was working off to the side and seemed to be in a good mood.

 

Same article reports KJ Hamler and Bryan Thompson sightings:

Quote

• Other receivers did step up on Wednesday, though. KJ Hamler caught a deep pass down the left sideline from Allen for a gain of 60 yards. That was a nice reminder that Hamler can not only work underneath but also push coverage deep. The Bills don’t have a ton of deep speed threats on the depth chart, so Hamler might be able to bring something different if he can work his way onto the roster. Chase Claypool made another couple of catches on passes from Mitch Trubisky, and Bryan Thompson also beat the defense for a deep touchdown of roughly 70 yards on a throw from quarterback Shane Buechele. Buechele has been sharp during these practices. Whether that means he can push Trubisky for the backup job remains to be seen.

 

[FireChans]

11 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

That isn't my thesis.  Its a passing league and KC won in spite of having a weak WR room last year.  WR was a weakness last year for us and until proven otherwise it remains a weakness in my opinion. 

 

I do like that we have most of the roles covered with this group. We have some size in Hollins, Coleman, and maybe Claypool.  We have one real field stretcher in MVS, and Hamler, Claypool also have that ability.  Shakir has the after the catch play making ability and I expect he and Kincaid to move the chains.  The only role we don't have is one guy who is really good who can face #1 CBs, consistently get open, and beat man coverage.  Turns out that role is pretty important.

That’s good then.

 

Lots of folks like to justify this garbo bottom barrel group talking about how top 5 paid WR’s never win SB’s. I thought it was interesting pair that with bottom 5 paid WR rooms who almost never win a single playoff game.
 

I have no problems with, “this group looks weak until proven otherwise.” In fact, I agree with that wholeheartedly. And I agree that 2023 and 2022’s groups were also a weakness. What I also believe is that 2024 is somehow a step DOWN from those weak years. And that will be evident mid season when Beanenis scrambling to bring back Quintus Cepheus.

[mjt328]

It's completely fair to be skeptical about the Bills WR group.  

We lost our #1 and #2 outside guys in the offseason.  The only guys who have produced in this offense (Knox, Kincaid, Shakir) are slot receivers and tight ends.  The rest of the room is made up on a rookie (Coleman), a solid complimentary guy (Samuel), underachieving speedsters (Valdes-Scantling, Hamlin, Isabella), veteran depth (Hollins) and a reclamation project (Claypool).

 

There seem to be a lot of supremely confident fans, absolutely certain that a few of these guys will step up big and we won't miss Diggs at all.  Well, I hope they are correct.  But let's be completely honest.  If this same WR group was on a competitor like the Dolphins, Jets, Patriots or Chiefs... everyone would be calling it a weakness, and boasting how it didn't scare anyone.  This position is unproven at best.  So everyone is going to scrutinizing it during offseason workouts.  As they should.

 

As far as the Minicamp reports... I'm not sure why anyone is really surprised that coaches are shuffling things around.  Shakir is hurt.  Coleman is a rookie.  And none of the guys I have listed above are worthy of being handed the job.  None of this is reason to panic.  Good or bad, I'm sure it was always the plan to let multiple combinations play with the starting lineup and see what rises to the top.  I also don't understand why people are "worried" that Claypool is standing out.  He's got the most past success of any WR on the roster, and personally I think it's good that someone is doing good.

 

[ColoradoBills]

41 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Same article reports KJ Hamler and Bryan Thompson sightings:

 

 

I remember last year during camp and preseason liking what I saw from Bryan Thompson.  He may end up as PS WR #1.

[mjt328]

18 hours ago, Cray51 said:

KC won the Super Bowl last year with a below average WR room.  Rice is a good player, MVS we have, Moore is bad.  They had Kelce who is all world, but the Bills have Kincaid and Knox who are no slouches.

 

The Bills pure WR room is better than what Kansas City had last year to win the Super Bowl

 

I'm always skeptical about using the "one-team's success" example, and then building an entire team-building philosophy around it.

 

Yes, Kansas City won the Super Bowl last year with a below average WR room.  But there were multiple times during the season that the lack of talent at that position cost them big.  Two examples were the opener against Detroit and the regular season game against us (which ultimately let us host the playoff game in Buffalo).  Ultimately they were able to overcome.  Much of that has to do with them featuring the NFL's best QB, TE and offensive coach.  

 

Outside of KC, the other recent Super Bowl teams (San Francisco, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Cincinnati, Tampa Bay) all had fantastic receiver rooms with multiple weapons.  You need to go back to New England... who is always a statistical outlier... to find another championship team with a weak WR room.

 

[RangerDave]

On 6/11/2024 at 4:00 PM, Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD said:

Yet he somehow spelled Ulofoshio correctly

Another save by Mr Auto-Correct!

[Beck Water]

19 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

It's completely fair to be skeptical about the Bills WR group.  

We lost our #1 and #2 outside guys in the offseason.  The only guys who have produced in this offense (Knox, Kincaid, Shakir) are slot receivers and tight ends.  The rest of the room is made up on a rookie (Coleman), a solid complimentary guy (Samuel), underachieving speedsters (Valdes-Scantling, Hamlin, Isabella), veteran depth (Hollins) and a reclamation project (Claypool).

 

There seem to be a lot of supremely confident fans, absolutely certain that a few of these guys will step up big and we won't miss Diggs at all.  Well, I hope they are correct.  But let's be completely honest.  If this same WR group was on a competitor like the Dolphins, Jets, Patriots or Chiefs... everyone would be calling it a weakness, and boasting how it didn't scare anyone.  This position is unproven at best.  So everyone is going to scrutinizing it during offseason workouts.  As they should.

 

As far as the Minicamp reports... I'm not sure why anyone is really surprised that coaches are shuffling things around.  Shakir is hurt.  Coleman is a rookie.  And none of the guys I have listed above are worthy of being handed the job.  None of this is reason to panic.  Good or bad, I'm sure it was always the plan to let multiple combinations play with the starting lineup and see what rises to the top.  I also don't understand why people are "worried" that Claypool is standing out.  He's got the most past success of any WR on the roster, and personally I think it's good that someone is doing good.

 

 

Good write up.  I'm certainly in "Missouri" mode on our WR ("I'm from Missouri.  You have to Show Me.")

 

As far as the shuffling things around, I thought it was useful to ask "why didn't Beane double-dip at WR this draft?" and my answer is, because he thought between last year's 5th round pick Shorter, last year's UDFA signings Shavers and Thompson, and perennially injured 2020 2nd round pick KJ Hamler, Beane thought he had comparable talent to the late round guys already on the roster.

 

That means he has to give them a look in training camp to see if he's right, or if he needs to go beating some bushes extra-hard to turn up more talent

[Warriorspikes51]

Samuel
Shakir 

Coleman

 

MVS
Claypool

Hollins

 

Hamler

 

Shavers, Shorter, Isabella Practice Squad 

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