Is James Cook a Top-Five All Time Bills Running Back?

[BearNorth]

46 minutes ago, danc said:

I agree.  Also why specify Cookie as a FB, Jim Brown was a FB.  Brown is considered one the greatest RBs, not just FB. 

Cookie was the featured attraction.  The 1964 team was built on defense and pounding the rock. 

 

[jlgarsh]

13 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Is there a Bills running back from the past whom, if you could bring him back in his prime, you would start in place of James Cook?

 

I’ve always maintained that the Bills have the best stable of running backs in the history of the league.  No other team can match a top five of Gilchrist, Simpson, Cribbs, Thomas, and McCoy.  Fred Jackson is my number six, and he’d be number three for many other teams.

 

Let’s skip the obvious choices.  Gilchrist was a completely different style of running back, but he ran like and was as good as Derrick Henry.  I don’t care if Cookie can’t run pass patterns, he’d play ahead of Cook.  Simpson is a top-five all-time running back, and Thomas is at least a top-ten guy.  I know, some of you would put them in the other order, but forget that for now.  It goes without saying that either one would start ahead of Cook.

 

I didn’t see a lot of Cribbs, but from what I recall of him, Cook would back him up.

 

I think I’d take McCoy over Cook.  Different styles, but Shady was special. 

 

Finally, Fred Jackson.  I loved Freddie, but I think he’s the only great Bills back who would be a backup to Cook. 

 

What do you think?  Does Cook make the top five?

The Bills kept trying to replace Fred instead of just giving him the ball. Wasn’t he a top 3 MVP candidate before he got hurt in 2008 or so? Can’t remember the exact year. But there was 0 reason to pick Spiller when they had Marshawn & Fred already. 

[PrimeTime101]

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

1. Thomas - Leads all Bills players in scrimmage yards

2. OJ - He truly was a killer RB.

3. Joe Cribbs - 3 1000 yard season plus nearly 1800 yard in receptions

4. Fred Jackson - Thy name is longevity, but only 1 1000 yard season

5. Travis Henry - 2 huge seasons seasons (1438 & 1356), but then was gone much to soon

HM - Marshawn Lynch & McCoy

 

Top FB

1. Jim Braxton

2. Cookie Gilchrist

 

Did you know that Josh Allen is 7th in career rushing yards for the Bills.

 

It's much much to early to label Cook as anything but a potentially excellent player for the Bills. Cook's Rushing stats were our 21st best rush season (we have had 31 1000 yard rushing seasons) and he currently its 20th on our all-time list.  

 

OJ had 5 1000+ yard seasons (in only 14 games)

Thurman had 8 (16 games seasons).  

 

Truthfully the Bills have had only 2 great RBs plus Lynch who they moved on from much to soon.

Yep and all of these names were in the "run first era" you look at the carries these guys had compared to cooks... big difference... 60-100 more caries between the 2 years for each of those players accept Fred. 

[without a drought]

OJ, Cookie, Thurman and Josh

[Solomon Grundy]

14 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Not yet.

 

OJ

Thurman

Marshawn

McGahee

Fred

 

Shady over McGahee

[HurlyBurly51]

He’s currently 20th on the teams career rushing leaders, so I’d just say it’s a little premature for this type of question.

[Einstein]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Cook is definitely NOT one of the top 5 RB's in Bills history.   Not top 10 either.

 

Agreed.

 

There are days where I read a thread and think that there must be a secret competition of people vying for the title of ‘most homer’istic poster’.

This thread is definitely in the running. 

[Gunsgoodtime]

Not even top 10 as many have mentioned.  He has got a way to go to crack the top 10 in Buffalo RBs

[T master]

As I read this the NFL network is playing the NFL’s Greatest games, talking about the year the Bills traded Marshawn to the Seahawks showing Marshawn running as a Bill then a seahawk and I can’t help but think if we would have kept him what the Bills might have done .

 

Marshawn was a bad man and could have done exactly what he did in Seattle with the Bills, but those were the years that the Bills were always changing never staying the course anywhere be it players, coaches, front office where ever it may be .

 

I think If Marshawn would have stayed he may have been one of the best backs or a top 5 Bills back all time …

[HurlyBurly51]

3 minutes ago, T master said:

I think If Marshawn would have stayed he may have been one of the best backs or a top 5 Bills back all time …

Yes, but how much money would the kids at the mall have had left?

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

16 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Is there a Bills running back from the past whom, if you could bring him back in his prime, you would start in place of James Cook?

 

I’ve always maintained that the Bills have the best stable of running backs in the history of the league.  No other team can match a top five of Gilchrist, Simpson, Cribbs, Thomas, and McCoy.  Fred Jackson is my number six, and he’d be number three for many other teams.

 

Let’s skip the obvious choices.  Gilchrist was a completely different style of running back, but he ran like and was as good as Derrick Henry.  I don’t care if Cookie can’t run pass patterns, he’d play ahead of Cook.  Simpson is a top-five all-time running back, and Thomas is at least a top-ten guy.  I know, some of you would put them in the other order, but forget that for now.  It goes without saying that either one would start ahead of Cook.

 

I didn’t see a lot of Cribbs, but from what I recall of him, Cook would back him up.

 

I think I’d take McCoy over Cook.  Different styles, but Shady was special. 

 

Finally, Fred Jackson.  I loved Freddie, but I think he’s the only great Bills back who would be a backup to Cook. 

 

What do you think?  Does Cook make the top five?

Cribbs was the reason we had those magical, early 80's years.  It only lasted 2 seasons, and parts of a couple more on the sides, but holy fook!  He was the definition of electric.  For all too brief a time, he was legitimately the best running back in the league, north or south, by the 3-5 years surrounding his reign of gorgeous.   
 

Dorsett, Campbell and Dickerson, maybe Allen and a season or 2 of Bo were in his league during that time, but I'd still take Cribbs.  ... or a season or 2 of Bo haha
 

Let me know when Cook is that important.  

[GASabresIUFan]

1 hour ago, BringMetheHeadofLeonLett said:

Let me know when Cook is that important.

He became important last year when he put up 1500 from scrimmage.   He doesn't really become relevant to this discussion until he earns a new contract.  

 

Outside of Thurmon, OJ, Jackson and Cribbs, none  contributed beyond 3 or 4 years.  

 

The same goes for the WRs.  Outside of Reed, Moulds and Diggs, who else made a significant contribution beyond a few years.  Elbert Dubenion was great for his era with 1 1000 yard season and 1 for 950+ and he did it getting thrown to just a few times a game averaging less then 3 receptions per game.  Lee Evans is probably next on the list after those 4, and he had a grand total of 2 1000 yard seasons.  Stevie Johnson had 3 1000 yard season and then was done.  Frank Lewis had  2 1000 yard seasons as well. 

 

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFan said:

He became important last year when he put up 1500 from scrimmage.   He doesn't really become relevant to this discussion until he earns a new contract.  

 

Outside of Thurmon, OJ, Jackson and Cribbs, none  contributed beyond 3 or 4 years.  

 

The same goes for the WRs.  Outside of Reed, Moulds and Diggs, who else made a significant contribution beyond a few years.  Elbert Dubenion was great for his era with 1 1000 yard season and 1 for 950+ and he did it getting thrown to just a few times a game averaging less then 3 receptions per game.  Lee Evans is probably next on the list after those 4, and he had a grand total of 2 1000 yard seasons.  Stevie Johnson had 3 1000 yard season and then was done.  Frank Lewis had  2 1000 yard seasons as well. 

 

Dude, he's been off to a great start, but I'm sorry, I want actual difference-makers to be talked about.  
 

How do I have to be stuck arguing AGAINST a player I really like. 
 

But he hasn't done ***** yet.  
 

Tell me I'm wrong. 

[Spiderweb]

21 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Not yet.

 

OJ

Thurman

Marshawn

McGahee

Fred

 

Cribbs?

[vincec]

21 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I'm not even sure he's top 8 with only one year as primary starter.

Thomas

OJ

Gilchrist

Freddy

Travis Henry

Willis McGahee

McCoy

Lynch

Cribbs

Kenneth Davis

Greg Bell

 

maybe even:

Antowain Smith

Robb Riddick

Edited June 12 by vincec

[ComradeKayAdams]

13 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

The Bears had Sayers and Payton and some other good players.  Browns had Brown and Leroy Kelly.  Many people don't remember how good Kelly was, because he played in Jim Brown's wake.  When Brown retired and people commented that the Browns would be left without a running back, Brown said that was wrong, because they had Kelly.  Brown was correct.  

 

Only Dorsett and Smith are in the HOF.  Bills have Simpson and Thomas, with LeSean McCoy likely and Frank Gore a lock, if you want to count him.

 

Pro Football Reference has an interesting metric where they measure Hall of Fame worthiness.  Running backs who deserve to be in Hall of Fame.   Some observations on their list:

 

Top 10, in order:  Payton, Brown, Sanders, Smith, Tomlinson, Simpson, Dickerson, Peterson, Faulk, Terrell Davis.  Peterson is a lock, as is Gore, who is 11th.  Thomas is 14.  McCoy is the next guy on the list who isn't in.  He's 20th, ahead of Curtis Martin, Leroy Kelly, and Tony Dorsett, who all are in.  

 

The next guys on the list are Roger Craig (not in), Bettis and Riggins (both in), Lynch ( a lock), Hornung (in), and - get this -are you ready? - Cookie Gilchrist. 

 

Simpson, Thomas, McCoy, Lynch, Gilchrist.  Two absolute sure-fire Hall of Famers, two on the bubble, and Cookie.  Damn good.

 

That PFR HOF metric undersells Cookie’s worthiness, in my opinion. It explicitly penalizes players who only played in the AFL and not the NFL. It also excludes the 6 CFL seasons during Cookie’s physical prime (ages 21-26), years that would later qualify him for Canada’s own football HOF. 1956-1961 happened to be a time in pro football when the CFL was still considered to be roughly on par with the NFL in talent. Furthermore, the PFR HOF metric doesn’t consider Cookie’s civil rights contributions to the sport.

 

Lynch and McCoy were both selected for the 2010’s NFL All-Decade Team, so that’s a good indication that they will eventually make it in.

 

By any metric we use (total First-Team All-Pro nominations, total Pro Bowl nominations, accrued Hall of Fame RB seasons, number of 1k+ rushing yards seasons), the Bills are definitely up there with the greatest NFL franchises for RB’s. I’m guessing the top competitors are the Browns, Steelers, Colts, Oilers/Titans, Cowboys, Bears, and Rams. This elite status has been mostly by design because cold-weather Buffalo has always prioritized running the ball. We may even end up with the most prolific running QB in pro football history!

 

My own top 5 all-time Buffalo RB’s ranking:

 

1. OJ

2. Thurman

3. Cookie

4. Shady

5. Cribbs

 

James Cook can make my list if he has two more seasons like last one, cleans up his pass-blocking issues, and stops dropping crucial TD passes.

[skibum]

If he keeps it up, and sticks around longer than Henry/Lynch/Fred/McCoy, sure. Now, he's not even close to top 5.

[Orlando Buffalo]

23 hours ago, ShakAttack said:

I could maybe argue Travis Henry and/or Lesean McCoy in place of McGahee. At least in my lifetime.

 

And as far as best individual seasons go, watching CJ Spiller in 2012 was a treat. 

Travis was a truly "special" dude. When he was on the Bills he did an in person interview at the ESPN club at Disney when I was there. It was mostly boring but when asked where he sees himself in 5 years he answered "as a Cowboy". At that point I knew not to get too attached

[Matt_In_NH]

Not only no, he is not necessarily destined to get there either.

[Watkins101]

10 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Yep and all of these names were in the "run first era" you look at the carries these guys had compared to cooks... big difference... 60-100 more caries between the 2 years for each of those players accept Fred. 

To be fair, aside from Thurman Thomas, none of them had a Qb in the same ballpark to play with as Josh Allen. They’d face a lot more stacked boxes than Cook.