Keon Coleman Slow Jokes

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

He is getting the same push off after he regained his composure than a guy starting in a track stance?  Lol

 

He wouldn’t need a push off because he has already accelerated. 

 

Think of it this way: When is a runner at their fastest? The beginning of a 40 yard dash? When they are pushing off the block? Or the second half of the race, when they have already accelerated?

Consider the first kinematic equation of motion. 

[Sweats]

One thing i've noticed about Coleman that really impresses me is that he is always helping teammates up off the turf, whether he is involved in the play or not, he is always helping guys up.

 

That is a fine upstanding young teammate right there.

[Man with No Name]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

He wouldn’t need a push off because he has already accelerated. 

 

Think of it this way: When is a runner at their fastest? The beginning of a 40 yard dash? When they are pushing off the block? Or the second half of the race, when they have already accelerated?

Consider the first kinematic equation of motion. 

exactly. the first 10 yards after a stumble SHOULD be faster than the first 10 yards from a dead stop. For example, the greatest sprinters in the world hit their first 10 meters out of the blocks in around 1.8 seconds. the second ten meters only take around 1 second.  there is a MUCH greater speed penalty for being in a standing start than coming out of a stumble, where you are probably still at something like 1/2 to 3/4 speed. 

[vincec]

56 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

The rook was really good today.  I don’t understand the hate.

The haters are concerned that they might be wrong about him so they’re working hard on the spin.

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Man with No Name said:

exactly. the first 10 yards after a stumble SHOULD be faster than the first 10 yards from a dead stop. For example, the greatest sprinters in the world hit their first 10 meters out of the blocks in around 1.8 seconds. the second ten meters only take around 1 second.  there is a MUCH greater speed penalty for being in a standing start than coming out of a stumble, where you are probably still at something like 1/2 to 3/4 speed. 

 

Bingo! And well said.

 

And we can prove it with v = v0 + a(t). Because v is dependent on a and t, it is not possible for a runner to be at their fastest while still accelerating.

[Bockeye]

Keep up the narrative so you can eat some crow like you did today.

 

In the gauntlet drill at the NFL Combine, Coleman reached a top speed of 20.36 miles per hour – the fastest speed by a receiver over the last two seasons.

"The 40 is no longer the most effective way to determine a player's speed," wrote ESPN’s Marcel Louis-Jacques earlier this year. "The value it once had to teams has diminished in its 80-year existence, as clubs turn toward other means – such as GPS tracking and analytical data – to fully understand how fast a player can move in football specific situations."

 

Despite the 40 time, Beane is confident that the wideout has plenty of speed.

"He's a guy whose got play speed, he's got short-area quickness for a big guy," Beane said. "We all know, some guys, they can run the track time, but that's where the mental part comes into it, too. I always say if you run 4.3 but you're not smart, you'll never play 4.3."

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Dude is slow as molasses.

 

He makes up for it with a great catch radius, but he isn’t scoring even without stumbling.

 

He had a 10 yard head start and the entire Titans backfield caught up to him 😂

 

[ghostwriter]

4 minutes ago, Bockeye said:

Keep up the narrative so you can eat some crow like you did today.

 

In the gauntlet drill at the NFL Combine, Coleman reached a top speed of 20.36 miles per hour – the fastest speed by a receiver over the last two seasons.

"The 40 is no longer the most effective way to determine a player's speed," wrote ESPN’s Marcel Louis-Jacques earlier this year. "The value it once had to teams has diminished in its 80-year existence, as clubs turn toward other means – such as GPS tracking and analytical data – to fully understand how fast a player can move in football specific situations."

 

Despite the 40 time, Beane is confident that the wideout has plenty of speed.

"He's a guy whose got play speed, he's got short-area quickness for a big guy," Beane said. "We all know, some guys, they can run the track time, but that's where the mental part comes into it, too. I always say if you run 4.3 but you're not smart, you'll never play 4.3."

 

I will gladly eat crow here, good sir.

[Royale with Cheese]

14 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

He wouldn’t need a push off because he has already accelerated. 

 

Think of it this way: When is a runner at their fastest? The beginning of a 40 yard dash? When they are pushing off the block? Or the second half of the race, when they have already accelerated?

Consider the first kinematic equation of motion. 

 

The start is the foundation and sets the rest of the sprint....it's everything.  If Keon didn't stumble, his top speed would have been faster.  I was a speed guy in high school and college, I know what I am talking about.  You don't.  

 

"An effective start and initial acceleration can set the table for the rest of the run. Optimizing force application, the switching of limbs, and maximizing momentum early on can allow a seamless transition to max velocity (top speed) and an optimal balance between stride length and stride frequency."

 

https://simplifaster.com/articles/the-standing-start-and-training-for-a-fast-40-yard-dash/

 

https://richsadiv.com/preparing-for-the-nfl-combine-the-40-yard-dash/#:~:text=Training Focus,for as long as possible.

"The most important part of the 40 is the first three steps, as this will set up acceleration for the remaining 14-20 strides. The key coaching cue is to think of how a plane takes off. This mental guide should help the athlete stay in acceleration for as long as possible."

 

Again, you didn't answer my question.  When have you ever trained in the 40?

[Bockeye]

https://www.overtimeheroics.net/2024/03/04/nfl-player-tracking-data-highlights-keon-colemans-impressive-speed/#:~:text=He clocked a remarkable speed of 20.36 mph%2C,at 21.71 mph while running a go route.

 

Keon faster than Puka Nacua - yep!  But alas, you probably wouldn’t want Puka either.  

Edited October 21 by Bockeye

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

So YTD here's Coleman's Stats

 

 

And Worthy

 

 

Worthy has more TD's when you factor in the runs which tends to show he's more of a gadget guy.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

33 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

exactly. the first 10 yards after a stumble SHOULD be faster than the first 10 yards from a dead stop. For example, the greatest sprinters in the world hit their first 10 meters out of the blocks in around 1.8 seconds. the second ten meters only take around 1 second.  there is a MUCH greater speed penalty for being in a standing start than coming out of a stumble, where you are probably still at something like 1/2 to 3/4 speed. 

Looked like he ran out of gas because he had to fight a grown man off him and had to expend a lot of energy just keeping his balance.  Realizing he wasn’t beating baker jr in a foot race after that he slowed down and cut it inside which allowed quandre diggs to make the tackle.  
 

baker jr was beating him in a foot race for sure but he wasn’t getting dusted by quandre Diggs by any means 

 

all these sprinter 40 comparisons are weird because they’re not getting into a freakin fistfight before they run 😂

 

Edited October 21 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Bockeye said:

https://www.overtimeheroics.net/2024/03/04/nfl-player-tracking-data-highlights-keon-colemans-impressive-speed/#:~:text=He clocked a remarkable speed of 20.36 mph%2C,at 21.71 mph while running a go route.

 

Keon faster than Puka Nacua - yep!  But alas, you probably wouldn’t want Puka either.  

Slow as molasses....

[Einstein]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 If Keon didn't stumble, his top speed would have been faster. 

 

This makes absolutely zero mathematical or logical sense. Keon was not impeded from reaching top speed AFTER the stumble. You keep going back to the stumble but we are talking about a 3.37 second stretch that does not include the stumble. More on this below.

 

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

"The most important part of the 40 is the first three steps, as this will set up acceleration”

 

 

This quote is telling you exactly what I have told you. 

Do you know what acceleration is? Do you understand why this quote is telling you that acceleration is the most important part?

 

It is telling you this, because acceleration is the part of the race where a runner is at their SLOWEST. In other words, you stating that removing the block/stance portion of the race affects time is nonsensical - because it would only affect time in a negative way.

 

By removing the block portion of a race, you are cutting out a significant slow curve and making their average velocity FASTER - not slower. 

 

Because Coleman had already accelerated post stumble, the calculation we have is higher than if he started off from a block. 

 

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Again, you didn't answer my question.  When have you ever trained in the 40?

 

 

This is akin to asking: When have you ever been a professional baker, when telling someone that you made cookies for dinner.

 

If anything, physics and mathematics are for more important in this discussion than your experience running.

 

[HerdMentality]

So slow that NFL review can identify a bobble on a TD reception.

[Royale with Cheese]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

This makes absolutely zero mathematical or logical sense. Keon was not impeded from reaching top speed AFTER the stumble. You keep going back to the stumble but we are talking about a 3.37 second stretch that does not include the stumble. More on this below.

 

 

This quote is telling you exactly what I have told you. 

Do you know what acceleration is? Do you understand why this quote is telling you that acceleration is the most important part?

 

It is telling you this, because acceleration is the part of the race where a runner is at their SLOWEST. In other words, you stating that removing the block/stance portion of the race affects time is nonsensical - because it would only affect time in a negative way.

 

By removing the block portion of a race, you are cutting out a significant slow curve and making their average velocity FASTER - not slower. 

 

Because Coleman had already accelerated post stumble, the calculation we have is higher than if he started off from a block. 

 

 

 

This is akin to asking: When have you ever been a professional baker, when telling someone that you made cookies for dinner.

 

If anything, physics and mathematics are for more important in this discussion than your experience running.

 

 

Not arguing you with this anymore. You avoid quotes and replies when you don't have an answer.  

You purposely didn't include the quote below.  

This is as bad as you saying PFF evaluates offensive lineman better than Andy Reid.  

 

"An effective start and initial acceleration can set the table for the rest of the run. Optimizing force application, the switching of limbs, and maximizing momentum early on can allow a seamless transition to max velocity (top speed) and an optimal balance between stride length and stride frequency."

 

When professional athletes stop hiring speed coaches and hiring physicists and mathematicians, then we can pick up this conversation.

 

A baker and cookie analogy....lol.  Because they are in the same level as complexity.  Geezus MENSA.

[Einstein]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Not arguing you with this anymore. 

 

Excellent decision on your part.

[GaryPinC]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Bingo! And well said.

 

And we can prove it with v = v0 + a(t). Because v is dependent on a and t, it is not possible for a runner to be at their fastest while still accelerating.

The thing you are missing here is the change of acceleration over time.

end velocity is less important here than rate of acceleration.  In a stumble, there is a negative acceleration until balance and rhythm are reestablished and acceleration can increase again.  

 

A sprinter coming out of a block rapidly establishes balance and rhythm and quickly compounds positive acceleration.  One of the keys here is the amount of stumble/balance loss and how quickly the runner can re-establish but I would bet in most cases the static runner properly balanced will build greater speed via greater positive acceleration magnitude than the stumbling runner.

 

In simplest terms, the static runner is going to have a greater "a" than the stumbling runner thus build speed more rapidly even though the stumbler has a v0 greater than zero.

Edited October 21 by GaryPinC

[Einstein]

15 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

The thing you are missing here is the change of acceleration over time.

end velocity is less important here than rate of acceleration.  In a stumble, there is a negative acceleration until balance and rhythm are reestablished and acceleration can increase again.  

 

 

For the 5th time, we are talking about his velocity AFTER he already re-establishes post stumble. After he gains his balance. After he accelerates again. 

 

 

 

Edited October 21 by Einstein

[Doc]

9 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

The thing you are missing here is the change of acceleration over time.

end velocity is less important here than rate of acceleration.  In a stumble, there is a negative acceleration until balance and rhythm are reestablished and acceleration can increase again.  

 

A sprinter coming out of a block rapidly establishes balance and rhythm and quickly compounds positive acceleration.  One of the keys here is the amount of stumble/balance loss and how quickly the runner can re-establish but I would bet in most cases the static runner properly balanced will build greater speed via greater positive acceleration magnitude than the stumbling runner.

 

In simplest terms, the static runner is going to have a greater "a" than the stumbling runner thus build speed more rapidly even though the stumbler has a v0 greater than zero.

 

This  And the other piece of the puzzle is that the defenders chasing him are near or at top speed when he stumbles.

[GaryPinC]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

For the 5th time, we are talking about his velocity AFTER he already re-establishes post stumble. After he gains his balance. After he accelerates again. 

My mistake.  Yeah, I can agree with you there.  Anywhere before that point favors the static runner.