I'm so sick of hearing about Josh Allen's Turnovers (fun article)

[Logic]

33 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It's not lazy.

 

And you're spinning like crazy.

 

Yes, if you go to other stats, Josh is crazy good. Overall, that's what he is, he's crazy good. Game-changing plays, whatever. He's fantastic.

 

But that doesn't mean he didn't have too many INTs the last year or two. Most particularly last year.

 

You don't want to have an INT % much over 2.0. Josh last year had a 3.1%. Way too high. Third-highest percentage in the league. Yes, a few others were too high also. But that doesn't make Josh being even higher than the guys you mentioned any more acceptable.

 

Josh was 3.1%. Much too high. Tua was 2.5%. Purdy too. Still too high, but not nearly as bad. Mahomes was 2.3%, still a bit high, but awful.

 

It was a problem. Josh admits it.

I um...didn't write this article. Just re-posting something I found online. Thanks though.

I believe it was specifically written in response to NFL Twitter (where the article's author predominately operates), where ANY discussion of Josh Allen's greatness as a player is immediately met by a chorus of people going "but his interceptions!". I don't think the author's intent is to say that Josh doesn't need to cut down on the picks, but rather that using his high interception numbers as a justification for denying that he's a great player (which a TON of people do on Twitter and elsewhere) is unreasonable, because it ignores all the other ways in which he is great (some of which the author points out).

 

Edited June 10 by Logic

[MasterStrategist]

Josh is obviously a MVP type QB, and he's single-handedly won us quite a few games.  He's been nearly unstoppable in the playoffs (minus Bengals loss when everyone played horrible).

 

But to brush aside his turnovers and focus on the "good stats", is also a bad stance.

 

IMO, he had a very average season LY, at his standard.  He has self admitted that he made too many turnovers, some of those cost us games (Jets and Broncos).  He had a great stat game against Miami, but his turnovers took a lot of points off the board and needed a great punt return to win it, and defense stepping up.

 

So yes, the offense was wildly inconsistent but a decent part of that was Josh LY.

 

We were very fortunate to even make the playoffs LY.  He needs to have a better regular season/more consistent and efficient, especially with a new/young group of playmakers.

[chris heff]

4 hours ago, PonyBoy said:

We could talk about Coleman's lack of speed for X receiver if you want? 😏

 

Wait, Coleman is slow?

[H2o]

55 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You forgot the Broncos game where we could not get to halftime without turning it over multiple times lol 

That was one of the games where Josh got us a lead in the last 2 minutes only to have the defense give it away.... We'll, the defense and ST in that one. 

[FireChans]

48 minutes ago, H2o said:

That was one of the games where Josh got us a lead in the last 2 minutes only to have the defense give it away.... We'll, the defense and ST in that one. 

He had 3 TO’s, a passer rating of 59.3, 177 yards passing and completed 57% of his passes.

 

If anyone “gave the game away,” I would start with the QB who got outplayed by the corpse of Russell Wilson.

[Billy Claude]

12 hours ago, stevestojan said:

At handful (4 maybe?) of his INTs last season were absolutely bombs on 3rd down that ended up being favorable field position to an inevitable punt. Doesn’t excuse it, but a bit of context. 

 

He had three so called arm punts, all within the first five games of last season.  None after and none before (at least within the last three years). I am guessing the coaches told him to stop it.

 

 

Edited June 11 by Billy Claude

[f0neguy]

So many of Josh’s interceptions were passes intended for Gabe.  Hopefully the communication with the new receivers gets ironed out quickly.  Initially I expect Kinkaid and Shakir to be the primary guys but as the season progresses things will be going all over the place.  I think that once this offense starts to click it could be really good.

[H2o]

7 hours ago, FireChans said:

He had 3 TO’s, a passer rating of 59.3, 177 yards passing and completed 57% of his passes.

 

If anyone “gave the game away,” I would start with the QB who got outplayed by the corpse of Russell Wilson.

Does JA play defense? Who actually allowed Russ to have his best game of the year? Should he have been covering Perrine out of the backfield? Is it JA's job to count the number of players on the field from the bench? Josh walked into the endzone with less than two minutes to go giving the Bills a lead. Despite everything else that happened that game, he did his job when it mattered most. The defense and ST gave it away. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 hours ago, FireChans said:

He had 3 TO’s, a passer rating of 59.3, 177 yards passing and completed 57% of his passes.

 

If anyone “gave the game away,” I would start with the QB who got outplayed by the corpse of Russell Wilson.

 

Yep. People love to ignore those games, of which he usually has a couple a year. And usually it's those losses that mean we lose out on the top seed.

 

[RobbRiddick]

Part of it is that arm arrogance thing that people like purdy and Tua dont have because they know their limitations.  Allen knows he can make any throw so tries to make any throw.

 

Mahomes had his ints increase when he was trying to carry the team earlier in the season, which he didnt do a great job of. This is why I maintain, despite it being perceived as a crazy opinion, that Allen is the best qb in the league. Mahomes struggled until Reid adjusted his schemes to get the likes of kelce open, then Mahomes numbers improved again. Allen doesn't have the greatest playcaller of all time in his corner and still manages to do the superman stuff with great regularity 

[Neo]

Boy, what a terrible article.  The guy didn’t address “the arm punt excuse” that the insightful have discovered.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Allen is amazing! Best QB in Bills history and is on pace to be a HOF player.

 

But he turns the ball over too much. Sorry if you don't believe that but it's true. He leads the league in turnovers since he came into the league. Granted that is a bit misleading too as many other worse players simply are not playing over that time. 

 

Everything in the OP is true. Allen makes all those amazing plays. Problem is there is no relative weighting in your argument. One INT is not canceled by one great play or one TD. Allen probably needs to make three, four, or more great plays to overcome one turnover. The turnover ratio in a game is still one of the most predictive stats in NFL. Lose the turnover battle and most of the time you lose the game. 

 

One other point not brought up. Red zone turnovers. I think Allen didn't have a red zone turnover for what his first 3 years. He was incredible in the redzone. However, he has had several in the last two years. 

 

I'm not advocating he lose his aggressive nature. But four less picks this year might be the difference between another division title or missing the playoffs.

 

[HOUSE]

I learned a lot here

Thanks

[zow2]

You're not going to get away from the turnover thing.  I don't live in Buffalo anymore but I'm around a lot of NFL fans for various teams.  When I get into discussions with non-Bills fans the vast majority tell me that Allen is tremendous but turns the ball over too much.  I spew out stats about 50 TD's, etc.. and how statistically he's one of the best playoff QB's in the history of the game.  No one cares.  All they come back with is, OK where's the MVP?  where's the Lombardi?!?  

 

I've said is plenty and I'll say it again....Mahomes may be the best QB in football, but Josh Allen has been the best overall player (athlete) for a few years and that can't be disputed.

[Gregg]

I think Allen is good for 10-15 INT's a year just because of his style of play. He has a lot of Favre in him in that he is a risk taker, gambler with a gun slingers mentality. Combine that with athletic ability and it allows him to make amazing plays/throws that very few QB's in the league can make. The downside to that is he will turn the ball over from time to time.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

It’s just a talking point to get clicks. Josh Allen turnover conversations are great on TV. That’s all it is.

[eball]

This is a very easy argument to analyze.  Turnovers vs. total points responsible for (all offensive TDs and FGs - leave out D/ST TDs).  Simple.  Compare that ratio to the other QBs and tell me what you come up with.

 

[FireChans]

4 hours ago, H2o said:

Does JA play defense? Who actually allowed Russ to have his best game of the year? Should he have been covering Perrine out of the backfield? Is it JA's job to count the number of players on the field from the bench? Josh walked into the endzone with less than two minutes to go giving the Bills a lead. Despite everything else that happened that game, he did his job when it mattered most. The defense and ST gave it away. 

it wasn’t Russ’s best game of the year, it was just one of Josh’s worst lol.
 

You know the Broncos allowed 70 to the Dolphins like 4 weeks prior, right? Does Josh play against their defense?

 

They would have never had the chance to take the lead if Josh didn’t give the football away over and over and over. 
 

 

 

[Utah John]

18 hours ago, julian said:

He’s gonna be a 1st ballot HOFer, the most talented, greatest duel threat QB of all time once his career is over.

 

17 is a freak show.

We all think he SHOULD be but when voters consider him five years after his retirement they'll see no Lombardis (boy I hope I'm wrong about that, but that's how it is now), no All-Pros, no Pro Bowls, no MVPs.  His stats will be very good but by then who knows how the league will have evolved, and maybe there will be a dozen QBs who have better stats.  People remember Cam Newton (the closes comparison QB I can think of) but not nearly as impressively as people regarded Newton while he was playing.  

 

Hope for the best but prepare for disappointment.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Did you know Josh Allen leads the league in interceptions since 2018?