Tiberius Posted June 6 Posted June 6 From the great Jennifer Rubin https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/06/04/trump-sentence-prison-merchan/ Seasoned legal minds differ on whether felon and former president Donald Trump should receive prison time for his conviction on 34 counts. However, considering the context of Trump’s crimes and his propensity to threaten judges, juries and witnesses, significant prison time is the only punishment that fits the crime and this convict. Sign up for the Prompt 2024 newsletter for opinions on the biggest questions in politics Trump’s crime of falsification of business records is considered a Class E felony — the lowest-level felony, punishable by up to four years in prison. (Punishment for each count would run concurrently, so the maximum would be four years, not 136 years.) Some, but certainly not most, of the convictions on these types of charges do result in prison time. In “Trying Trump: A Guide to His First Election Interference Criminal Trial,” Norm Eisen examined almost 10,000 prosecutions for falsifying business records in New York since 2015, finding that about 10 percent resulted in prison time. While Trump’s status as a first-time offender would not exempt him from prison time, it normally would weigh in favor of a lighter sentence such as probation only or minimal prison time. But is this a normal case? Fraudulent record-keeping charges routinely get elevated to felonies (contrary to uninformed critics who thought this was an exotic maneuver), but Justice Juan Merchan has already recognized Trump’s crime was especially significant because of its momentous consequences: concealing possibly outcome-determinative information from the voters in 2016. (Even Trump cronies recognized the magnitude of their chicanery. “What have we done?” attorney Keith Davidson texted the editor of the National Enquirer after the election.) Merchan wrote in a pretrial ruling that “while it is true that the charges involve the lowest level felony and no one suffered physical harm, it can hardly be said that the allegations are not severe.” He stressed: “The People claim that the Defendant paid an individual $130,000 to conceal a sexual encounter in an effort to influence the 2016 Presidential election and then falsified 34 business records to cover up the payoff. In this Court’s view, those are serious allegations.” And, therefore, the convictions are serious. In addition to the gravity of the offense, the factors weighing most heavily in favor of a significant prison sentence are Trump’s conduct and character. It is not “simply” that Trump has multiple civil judgments against him (e.g., sexually abusing and defaming E. Jean Carroll, inflating his property values and misusing charitable funds) or that he spearheaded a violent insurrection to overturn an election or even that his conduct resulted in multiple contempt citations in Merchan’s and Justice Arthur Engoron’s courtrooms. In this case, character and conduct also encompass how Trump treats the criminal justice system. From that perspective, imprisonment may be the only effective penalty because of Trump’s defective character. Chump-change fines for contempt during the trial did not slow him down. So long as he remains at large, with unfettered access to social media, he poses a threat to the people he attacks and the judicial system he maligns. Incarceration is the only means of holding Trump accountable for his wholesale attacks on the rule of law that continue to this day. 3
Irv Posted June 6 Posted June 6 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Tiberius said: From the great Jennifer Rubin https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/06/04/trump-sentence-prison-merchan/ Seasoned legal minds differ on whether felon and former president Donald Trump should receive prison time for his conviction on 34 counts. However, considering the context of Trump’s crimes and his propensity to threaten judges, juries and witnesses, significant prison time is the only punishment that fits the crime and this convict. Sign up for the Prompt 2024 newsletter for opinions on the biggest questions in politics Trump’s crime of falsification of business records is considered a Class E felony — the lowest-level felony, punishable by up to four years in prison. (Punishment for each count would run concurrently, so the maximum would be four years, not 136 years.) Some, but certainly not most, of the convictions on these types of charges do result in prison time. In “Trying Trump: A Guide to His First Election Interference Criminal Trial,” Norm Eisen examined almost 10,000 prosecutions for falsifying business records in New York since 2015, finding that about 10 percent resulted in prison time. While Trump’s status as a first-time offender would not exempt him from prison time, it normally would weigh in favor of a lighter sentence such as probation only or minimal prison time. But is this a normal case? Fraudulent record-keeping charges routinely get elevated to felonies (contrary to uninformed critics who thought this was an exotic maneuver), but Justice Juan Merchan has already recognized Trump’s crime was especially significant because of its momentous consequences: concealing possibly outcome-determinative information from the voters in 2016. (Even Trump cronies recognized the magnitude of their chicanery. “What have we done?” attorney Keith Davidson texted the editor of the National Enquirer after the election.) Merchan wrote in a pretrial ruling that “while it is true that the charges involve the lowest level felony and no one suffered physical harm, it can hardly be said that the allegations are not severe.” He stressed: “The People claim that the Defendant paid an individual $130,000 to conceal a sexual encounter in an effort to influence the 2016 Presidential election and then falsified 34 business records to cover up the payoff. In this Court’s view, those are serious allegations.” And, therefore, the convictions are serious. In addition to the gravity of the offense, the factors weighing most heavily in favor of a significant prison sentence are Trump’s conduct and character. It is not “simply” that Trump has multiple civil judgments against him (e.g., sexually abusing and defaming E. Jean Carroll, inflating his property values and misusing charitable funds) or that he spearheaded a violent insurrection to overturn an election or even that his conduct resulted in multiple contempt citations in Merchan’s and Justice Arthur Engoron’s courtrooms. In this case, character and conduct also encompass how Trump treats the criminal justice system. From that perspective, imprisonment may be the only effective penalty because of Trump’s defective character. Chump-change fines for contempt during the trial did not slow him down. So long as he remains at large, with unfettered access to social media, he poses a threat to the people he attacks and the judicial system he maligns. Incarceration is the only means of holding Trump accountable for his wholesale attacks on the rule of law that continue to this day. ZZZZZzzzzzzz. Jennifer Rubin is a skanky ho' helping the Dems win the election for Trump. What a mess. Edited June 6 by Irv 2
Tiberius Posted June 6 Author Posted June 6 10 minutes ago, Irv said: ZZZZZzzzzzzz. Jennifer Rubin is a skanky ho' helping the Dems win the election for Trump. What a mess. You take that back! Mrs Rubin is a nice lady!
BillsFanNC Posted June 6 Posted June 6 If they try to put him in jail, which these lunatics very well might.... Then that will pretty much guarantee a Trump electoral victory. Then it's on to assassination. 1 2
SCBills Posted June 6 Posted June 6 He obviously does not deserve any prison time for a made up felony that stands a strong chance of being overturned on appeal once it gets to SCOTUS, with the gag order also likely being ruled unconstitutional. That being said, given the fact the other cases are now stuck in the mud, I could see Merchan feeling the need to go full activist judge and do whatever Bragg (Biden WH) ask of him… including taking the risk of going full shock to the American system and sentencing him to prison time. They know it could massively backfire, but the numbers post-conviction haven’t moved in the way they were hoping pre-trial and Biden looks increasingly helpless. 2 1
Irv Posted June 6 Posted June 6 30 minutes ago, Tiberius said: You take that back! Mrs Rubin is a nice lady! Skank. Her blathering is helping Trump win. What a mess. 1
Doc Posted June 6 Posted June 6 Just 4 years ago they were misdemeanors whose statute of limitations expired. And Johnny admonished Trump's lawyers when they suggested he could face jail time in their closing remarks. So...no jail time is coming.
BillsFanNC Posted June 6 Posted June 6 I agree with Dershowitz in that he gets a suspended sentence. The symbolism of prison without actually going to jail. Which after all is what show trials are all about. At the same time these lunatics have gone so far off the deep end he might actually attempt to incarcerate the orange dude. 1
Doc Posted June 6 Posted June 6 The polls have barely budged. They might reconsider (not) jailing him.
SCBills Posted June 6 Posted June 6 1 minute ago, BillsFanNC said: I agree with Dershowitz in that he gets a suspended sentence. The symbolism of prison without actually going to jail. Which after all is what show trials are all about. At the same time these lunatics have gone so far off the deep end he might actually attempt to incarcerate the orange dude. I tend to agree with this, but the fact that this looks to be their last shot at Trump .. in which they thought they’d have multiple shots over the summer.. “could” lend itself to something drastic, given most polling reflects Siena’s today, in which their pre-conviction/post-conviction snapshot went from Trump +3 to Trump +1 Noticeable, but not enough. 1
BillsFanNC Posted June 6 Posted June 6 If they send him to prison that will force people who haven’t paid any attention to ask... Ok, what exactly did he do? That's when this insanity all falls apart and the electoral landslide looms closer. 1
Tiberius Posted June 6 Author Posted June 6 49 minutes ago, Irv said: Skank. Her blathering is helping Trump win. What a mess. Trump win? 🤣 Last time he actually won he had to commit a felony to do it and he still lost the popular vote 15 minutes ago, Doc said: The polls have barely budged. They might reconsider (not) jailing him. Do the crime, do the time 1
AlBUNDY4TDS Posted June 6 Posted June 6 Just now, Tiberius said: Trump win? 🤣 Last time he actually won he had to commit a felony to do it and he still lost the popular vote Go grab some paper towels, you're dripping tds all over the keyboard. 2
Tiberius Posted June 6 Author Posted June 6 Quote From historical and modern examples, we know that illiberal movements “have as a priority to control the judiciary, because only by doing so it is possible for them to consolidate an authoritarian electoral model.” When independence of the courts is eroded and the leader and his cult accept as “fair” only the outcomes that favor their cause, they can proceed to take a wrecking ball to other democratic institutions. (The Supreme Court’s transparent effort to block Trump’s Jan. 6 trial before the election shows that the MAGA effort to control the judiciary is well underway.) With other criminal cases against Trump delayed, Merchan alone has the responsibility for the foreseeable future to mete out punishment that is appropriate for Trump’s crimes and sufficient to protect the justice system. The voters ultimately will have to reject fascism at the ballot box, but at present Merchan must exercise his discretion in sentencing Trump to actual incarceration for at least a year to shelter the independent judiciary — judges, jurors and witnesses — threatened by this felon and his rhetoric. If he does not, he puts New Yorkers and the Constitution at risk. 1
OrangeBills Posted June 6 Posted June 6 2 hours ago, Tiberius said: From the great Jennifer Rubin https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/06/04/trump-sentence-prison-merchan/ Seasoned legal minds differ on whether felon and former president Donald Trump should receive prison time for his conviction on 34 counts. However, considering the context of Trump’s crimes and his propensity to threaten judges, juries and witnesses, significant prison time is the only punishment that fits the crime and this convict. Sign up for the Prompt 2024 newsletter for opinions on the biggest questions in politics Trump’s crime of falsification of business records is considered a Class E felony — the lowest-level felony, punishable by up to four years in prison. (Punishment for each count would run concurrently, so the maximum would be four years, not 136 years.) Some, but certainly not most, of the convictions on these types of charges do result in prison time. In “Trying Trump: A Guide to His First Election Interference Criminal Trial,” Norm Eisen examined almost 10,000 prosecutions for falsifying business records in New York since 2015, finding that about 10 percent resulted in prison time. While Trump’s status as a first-time offender would not exempt him from prison time, it normally would weigh in favor of a lighter sentence such as probation only or minimal prison time. But is this a normal case? Fraudulent record-keeping charges routinely get elevated to felonies (contrary to uninformed critics who thought this was an exotic maneuver), but Justice Juan Merchan has already recognized Trump’s crime was especially significant because of its momentous consequences: concealing possibly outcome-determinative information from the voters in 2016. (Even Trump cronies recognized the magnitude of their chicanery. “What have we done?” attorney Keith Davidson texted the editor of the National Enquirer after the election.) Merchan wrote in a pretrial ruling that “while it is true that the charges involve the lowest level felony and no one suffered physical harm, it can hardly be said that the allegations are not severe.” He stressed: “The People claim that the Defendant paid an individual $130,000 to conceal a sexual encounter in an effort to influence the 2016 Presidential election and then falsified 34 business records to cover up the payoff. In this Court’s view, those are serious allegations.” And, therefore, the convictions are serious. In addition to the gravity of the offense, the factors weighing most heavily in favor of a significant prison sentence are Trump’s conduct and character. It is not “simply” that Trump has multiple civil judgments against him (e.g., sexually abusing and defaming E. Jean Carroll, inflating his property values and misusing charitable funds) or that he spearheaded a violent insurrection to overturn an election or even that his conduct resulted in multiple contempt citations in Merchan’s and Justice Arthur Engoron’s courtrooms. In this case, character and conduct also encompass how Trump treats the criminal justice system. From that perspective, imprisonment may be the only effective penalty because of Trump’s defective character. Chump-change fines for contempt during the trial did not slow him down. So long as he remains at large, with unfettered access to social media, he poses a threat to the people he attacks and the judicial system he maligns. Incarceration is the only means of holding Trump accountable for his wholesale attacks on the rule of law that continue to this day. Now assess what Biden and the Biden campaign did with 51 CIA operatives who all lied on a signed "affadavit" that Biden then represented as truth which he knew was false in terms of Election interference. I don't even care anymore, this country is done for, will just happen more quickly if Biden is re-elected 1 2
ChiGoose Posted June 6 Posted June 6 On the one hand: he’s a first time offender, it’s a non-violent crime, people rarely go to jail for this, he’s old. On the other hand: it was 34 counts, the intent behind them was very serious, he was held in contempt 10 times, he hasn’t exactly been contrite since being convicted, and a non-custodial sentence may not be a deterrent to a guy like Trump. It could go either way, but if I had to bet, I’d bet against prison as the sentence.
Irv Posted June 6 Posted June 6 2 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: On the one hand: he’s a first time offender, it’s a non-violent crime, people rarely go to jail for this, he’s old. On the other hand: it was 34 counts, the intent behind them was very serious, he was held in contempt 10 times, he hasn’t exactly been contrite since being convicted, and a non-custodial sentence may not be a deterrent to a guy like Trump. It could go either way, but if I had to bet, I’d bet against prison as the sentence. Go ahead lock him up. If there was ever any doubt about the election, that would win it for Trump. What a mess. 2
ChiGoose Posted June 6 Posted June 6 7 minutes ago, Irv said: Go ahead lock him up. If there was ever any doubt about the election, that would win it for Trump. What a mess. The idea that people would be *more* likely to vote for someone if they are locked up for fraudulent business records tells you a lot about those people. If only there was a word for such people who were slavishly devoted to a single leader…
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