Beck Water Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 7 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: I don't think the Chargers were completely blindsided by this. He was put on IR for a Heart Issue last season. This offseason, they signed Bradley Bozeman from Baltimore, who's started 77 of 96 games in his career. They have 26m in Cap Space. Starting Centers like Connor Williams, Mason Cole, and (the other) Connor McGovern are still available as Free Agents. They'll sign one of them if they don't think Bozeman's the guy. I don't think they'll have any interest in Clapp. We're not going to keep 3 Centers. McGovern is our Starting Center. SVPG is our Backup. Neither are going to be cut. Clapp is a Camp Body. He's only making this roster if one of them get hurt. If LA were to call, it's a no brainer. But I don't see them calling. I agree we're not going to keep 3 centers, but recall that McGovern did a nice job at LG. Early days yet, but you have a higher degree of confidence that McGovern will be all that and a bag of chips at C than I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampant Buffalo Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 On 6/5/2024 at 5:12 PM, vtnatefootball11 said: Chargers all pro center expected to retire due to medical reasons. https://www.yahoo.com/sports/chargers-release-center-corey-linsley-174945900.html Clapp might be of interest to them given they will have limited options now post-draft to find an adequate replacement and he is familiar with the scheme/started some games for them at C last couple years. Given the Van Pran pick, we may have enough depth at Center now. Would love for the Bills to capitalize on their neediness and trade Clapp to the chargers for a mid (if not early-mid) round pick in 2025. They should not trade him back to the Chargers. McDermott and Clapp go together! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 I don't think the Chargers were completely blindsided by this. He was put on IR for a Heart Issue last season. This offseason, they signed Bradley Bozeman from Baltimore, who's started 77 of 96 games in his career. On 6/5/2024 at 5:12 PM, vtnatefootball11 said: Clapp might be of interest to them given they will have limited options now post-draft to find an adequate replacement I take it you just assumed this and didn't look at who's still on the market for Centers. Unlike a lot of positions, the Center market still has some solid starting options available. Starting Centers like Connor Williams, Mason Cole, and (the other) Connor McGovern are still available as Free Agents. The Chargers have 26m in Cap Space still. They'll sign one of them if they don't think Bozeman's the guy. I don't think they'll have any interest in Clapp. On 6/5/2024 at 5:27 PM, Beck Water said: No, we should not. Connor McGovern has started one (1) game in the NFL at C. One. Clapp has started a whopping 12 or 14 games at C. Even if they think McGovern will be better at C than Clapp and that Edmunds will be adequate at LG, it's not worth it to leave ourselves with a 1 game guy and a 0 game 5th round rookie (who needs technique development) as our options at C. We're not going to keep 3 Centers. McGovern is our Starting Center. He played the position in College and always felt he was more naturally fit there and has been itching to get back to it. If there were any doubt there, they'd have switched him back by now. SVPG is our Backup. He's as prepared as any Rookie possibly could be, being a 3 year starter at Georgia against the highest possible College competition. Neither are going to be cut. Clapp is a Camp Body, signed to no guarantees. He's only making this roster if one of them get hurt. If LA were to call, it's a no brainer. But I don't see them calling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watkins101 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 I don’t think we’d get any more than a 6th for Clapp, as a depth (6-7) offensive lineman on most teams. We already have plenty of mid-late draft picks(with expected comp picks we have 3 4ths, 5th and 2 6ths), so trading our key depth for another doesn’t make sense. Clapp has played center and guard, and if any of our 3 starting interior lineman get hurt, he probably slots in the lineup (either at guard, or shifting McGovern to guard and taking over at center). We got lucky last year with a healthy oline, but shouldn’t count on it again this year. Quality Oline depth is more important than an 11th draft pick with little trade up value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampant Buffalo Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 2 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: I don't think the Chargers were completely blindsided by this. He was put on IR for a Heart Issue last season. This offseason, they signed Bradley Bozeman from Baltimore, who's started 77 of 96 games in his career. I take it you just assumed this and didn't look at who's still on the market for Centers. Unlike a lot of positions, the Center market still has some solid starting options available. Starting Centers like Connor Williams, Mason Cole, and (the other) Connor McGovern are still available as Free Agents. The Chargers have 26m in Cap Space still. They'll sign one of them if they don't think Bozeman's the guy. I don't think they'll have any interest in Clapp. We're not going to keep 3 Centers. McGovern is our Starting Center. He played the position in College and always felt he was more naturally fit there and has been itching to get back to it. If there were any doubt there, they'd have switched him back by now. SVPG is our Backup. He's as prepared as any Rookie possibly could be, being a 3 year starter at Georgia against the highest possible College competition. Neither are going to be cut. Clapp is a Camp Body, signed to no guarantees. He's only making this roster if one of them get hurt. If LA were to call, it's a no brainer. But I don't see them calling. There is still a path to Clapp remaining on the roster. This path depends as much on the play of others, as it does on his own play. Suppose that in camp, SVPG knocks people's socks off. Really looks like a starting quality center. Meanwhile, let's say Edwards is a disappointment. In that case the Bills might keep McGovern at OG, and put SVPG in at starting center. That scenario creates a need at backup center, which Clapp would fill. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 8 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: Clapp is a Camp Body, signed to no guarantees. He's only making this roster if one of them get hurt. If LA were to call, it's a no brainer. But I don't see them calling. This isn’t correct. $287.5k guaranteed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) 19 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said: There is still a path to Clapp remaining on the roster. This path depends as much on the play of others, as it does on his own play. Suppose that in camp, SVPG knocks people's socks off. Really looks like a starting quality center. Meanwhile, let's say Edwards is a disappointment. In that case the Bills might keep McGovern at OG, and put SVPG in at starting center. That scenario creates a need at backup center, which Clapp would fill. I don't see that happening. SVPG becoming undeniable wouldn't lead to them keeping an extra OL that they normally wouldn't. In the event that SVPG did blow everyone's socks off, they'd move McGovern back to Guard and Edwards would take SVPG's presumed spot on the 53 as a reserve. If SVPG were to get hurt in that scenario, they'd shuffle the line by sliding McGovern to Center and put Edwards at Guard. I don't see a scenario where McGovern is so garbage at Center that they wouldn't even entrust him to be the Backup and that they'd prefer to have Clapp and McGovern on the Starting Line instead of McGovern and Edwards. Edwards is a Kromer favorite and a full time starter before last season. I don't see a scenario where he's going to fall on his face in Kromer's system. He was brought back at a pay raise because of Kromer's history with him and and belief in him. 19 hours ago, Beck Water said: I agree we're not going to keep 3 centers, but recall that McGovern did a nice job at LG. Early days yet, but you have a higher degree of confidence that McGovern will be all that and a bag of chips at C than I do. What makes McGovern a good Guard is what makes him a better fit as a Center. He's very good at holding the line and not letting people through. However, he's not good at pushing his man backwards. This is fine for a Center. But for a Guard, you want them to get push for runs to the Left side. Thus, the shift to Center - with Edwards to Guard who's better at pushing his man. I really don't see him being a decent Guard but an albatross at Center. Especially since that's the position he played in High School and College. Edited June 7 by BillsFanForever19 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 5 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: I don't see that happening. SVPG becoming undeniable wouldn't lead to them keeping an extra OL that they normally wouldn't. In the event that SVPG did blow everyone's socks off, they'd move McGovern back to Guard and Edwards would take SVPG's presumed spot on the 53 as a reserve. If SVPG were to get hurt in that scenario, they'd shuffle the line by sliding McGovern to Center and put Edwards at Guard. Edwards is a Kromer favorite and a full time starter before last season. I don't see a scenario where he's going to fall on his face in Kromer's system. He was brought back at a pay raise because of Kromer's history and belief in him. What makes McGovern a good Guard is what makes him a better fit as a Center. He's very good at holding the line and not letting people through. However, he's not good at pushing his man backwards. This is fine for a Center. But for a Guard, you want them to get push for runs to the Left side. Thus, the shift to Center - with Edwards to Guard who's better at pushing his man. I really don't see him being a decent Guard but an albatross at Center. Especially since that's the position he played in High School and College. McGovern played more games at RG than C in college The C on most teams sets and adjusts the protections Not quite the same task in HS and even college Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra Foothills Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 13 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said: Corey Linsley and Will Clapp... Linsley and Clapp both have an extensive history in early New England. That's kind of amazing. So doesn't this mean that Linsley and Clapp are related? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Clapp is definitely related to McDermott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 On 6/5/2024 at 5:12 PM, vtnatefootball11 said: Chargers all pro center expected to retire due to medical reasons. https://www.yahoo.com/sports/chargers-release-center-corey-linsley-174945900.html Clapp might be of interest to them given they will have limited options now post-draft to find an adequate replacement and he is familiar with the scheme/started some games for them at C last couple years. Given the Van Pran pick, we may have enough depth at Center now. Would love for the Bills to capitalize on their neediness and trade Clapp to the chargers for a mid (if not early-mid) round pick in 2025. You should have titled this thread should we trade pass the Clapp back to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampant Buffalo Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 3 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: I don't see that happening. SVPG becoming undeniable wouldn't lead to them keeping an extra OL that they normally wouldn't. In the event that SVPG did blow everyone's socks off, they'd move McGovern back to Guard and Edwards would take SVPG's presumed spot on the 53 as a reserve. If SVPG were to get hurt in that scenario, they'd shuffle the line by sliding McGovern to Center and put Edwards at Guard. I don't see a scenario where McGovern is so garbage at Center that they wouldn't even entrust him to be the Backup and that they'd prefer to have Clapp and McGovern on the Starting Line instead of McGovern and Edwards. Edwards is a Kromer favorite and a full time starter before last season. I don't see a scenario where he's going to fall on his face in Kromer's system. He was brought back at a pay raise because of Kromer's history and belief in him. What makes McGovern a good Guard is what makes him a better fit as a Center. He's very good at holding the line and not letting people through. However, he's not good at pushing his man backwards. This is fine for a Center. But for a Guard, you want them to get push for runs to the Left side. Thus, the shift to Center - with Edwards to Guard who's better at pushing his man. I really don't see him being a decent Guard but an albatross at Center. Especially since that's the position he played in High School and College. Yeah you make good points. I will give you a scenario matrix. Scenario 1: McGovern is better at guard than center. Scenario 2: McGovern is equal at both positions. Scenario 3: McGovern is better at center than guard. Scenario A: Edwards is better than SVPG. Scenario B: the two players are equal. Scenario C : SVPG is better than Edwards. Let's say you're dealing with scenario 1C. McGovern is better at guard than center, and SVPG is better than Edwards. The solution is obvious: McGovern at guard, SVPG at center. But, let's say it's scenario 3C. Now things get more tricky. Option 1 is to put Edwards at guard and McGovern at center. You're keeping a superior player (SVPG) off the field and putting an inferior player (Edwards) on, but at least you're putting McGovern at his best spot. Option 2 is to put McGovern at guard and SVPG at center. This gets your five best OL on the field, but at the cost of putting McGovern somewhere other than where he'd be best-suited. It would be up to the coaching staff to decide which option represents the lesser of two evils. From your post, it sounds like scenario 3 is more probable than scenario 1. I wouldn't be surprised if we found ourselves in Scenario C (SVPG better than Edwards, especially later in the year). Which means the coaches might have some hard choices to make. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) 18 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said: Yeah you make good points. I will give you a scenario matrix. Scenario 1: McGovern is better at guard than center. Scenario 2: McGovern is equal at both positions. Scenario 3: McGovern is better at center than guard. Scenario A: Edwards is better than SVPG. Scenario B: the two players are equal. Scenario C : SVPG is better than Edwards. Let's say you're dealing with scenario 1C. McGovern is better at guard than center, and SVPG is better than Edwards. The solution is obvious: McGovern at guard, SVPG at center. But, let's say it's scenario 3C. Now things get more tricky. Option 1 is to put Edwards at guard and McGovern at center. You're keeping a superior player (SVPG) off the field and putting an inferior player (Edwards) on, but at least you're putting McGovern at his best spot. Option 2 is to put McGovern at guard and SVPG at center. This gets your five best OL on the field, but at the cost of putting McGovern somewhere other than where he'd be best-suited. It would be up to the coaching staff to decide which option represents the lesser of two evils. From your post, it sounds like scenario 3 is more probable than scenario 1. I wouldn't be surprised if we found ourselves in Scenario C (SVPG better than Edwards, especially later in the year). Which means the coaches might have some hard choices to make. The bottom line is neither David Edwards nor SVPG are going to be cut. We don't cut Draft Picks in their first year above Round 6. It's happened only once in the McBeane era (Vosean Joseph, after a redshirt year). SVPG was Drafted in Round 5. We don't cut players we sign to guaranteed money over 1-1.5m in the same offseason. It's happened only once in the McBeane era (OJ Howard). We signed Edwards to 2.95m guaranteed. David Edwards is a presumed starter at LG. At worst he'd be first OG off the bench. SVPG is the presumed backup at Center, with a small chance he could start. That's each players floor and ceiling, given their investment. Ultimately, it's a numbers game. The number we keep at OL is usually 9. Sometimes it's 10. It's generally 4 OT's and 5 Interior Lineman. Recently at Center, it's been a True Center (Morse) and a Backup that can be Center or Guard (Bates). Looking at the roster, I don't really see much of a path to keep Clapp: Dion Dawkins David Edwards Connor McGovern O'Cyrus Torrence Spencer Brown Ryan Van Demark SVPG That's 7 completely locked in. 4 IOL and 3 OT's. Leaving one OT and one IOL. Maybe an extra if we keep 10 this season. It comes down to: La'el Collins (Likely the 2nd Reserve OT at 1.5m guaranteed) Alec Anderson (Likely the 5th Interior OL and on the 53 all last season) Tylan Grable (Round 6 OT - likely to be the 10th OL if we keep 10, outside chance he beats out Collins as Reserve OT2) Will Clapp Richard Gouraige Travis Clayton (Round 7 OG) Keaton Bills Kevin Jarvis Gunner Britton Mike Edwards When it comes to our Centers, it's McGovern and SVPG, with each having flexibility to play Guard. Even if SVPG starts and McGovern goes back to Guard, it would be McGovern as the Backup Center. I can see a scenario where he isn't as good as SVPG, but I don't see a scenario where he simply can't play the position, even at a backup level. And instead of SVPG on the bench as one of the interior reserves, it would be Edwards. In Edwards is a guy who started 46 of 53 games before coming here, including every game for the Super Bowl Champion Rams, under Aaron Kromer. And like I said, we paid him about 3m guaranteed. If someone would come off the bench because of an injury at Center, it would be him at Guard with McGovern sliding over rather than putting in Clapp next to McGovern. They only guaranteed Clapp 287k and then Drafted SVPG after acquiring him. That really says all that needs to be said for what they think of him and the footing he has on this team. If there were a clear role for him he'd have been guaranteed more money and/or they wouldn't have Drafted SVPG. The clearest path for Clapp would be beating out Alec Anderson for the last interior spot. And I don't see that happening. They seem to really like him. And they aren't keeping 3 Centers and 6 IOL. Edited June 7 by BillsFanForever19 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 On 6/6/2024 at 9:33 PM, Sierra Foothills said: That's kind of amazing. So doesn't this mean that Linsley and Clapp are related? It's very possible... families often have collateral lines from areas, which means because families associated with one another, they married into each others families. Mine comes from Linsley (also Lindley) and Barnes, and a couple of generations later Barnes and Clapp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 On 6/6/2024 at 1:54 AM, billsfan89 said: I hope SVPG can just take the starting spot and McGovern go back to guard. Return Edwards to the bench where he's a quality backup and helps a lot in jumbo packages. Van Denmark, Anderson and Collins round out the bench. Personally I prefer the prospect of veterans McGovern and Edwards being the default OC and LG until definitively proven otherwise. Morse was clearly a finesse/movement OC, and it appears the Bills might prefer a beefier IOL after all. McGovern has been pining to play C since he got moved in college. I'll bet the guy can do the job and do so with a little more mass in the ass than the last guy. Although that last guy was pretty damned mobile and ostensibly a great locker room influence. I like to judge the Bills on the moves they CHOOSE to make. They definitely CHOSE this o-line reshuffle. So let's judge them on how well it works. Shall we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 14 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: The bottom line is neither David Edwards nor SVPG are going to be cut. We don't cut Draft Picks in their first year above Round 6. It's happened only once in the McBeane era (Vosean Joseph, after a redshirt year). SVPG was Drafted in Round 5. We don't cut players we sign to guaranteed money over 1-1.5m in the same offseason. It's happened only once in the McBeane era (OJ Howard). We signed Edwards to 2.95m guaranteed. David Edwards is a presumed starter at LG. At worst he'd be first OG off the bench. SVPG is the presumed backup at Center, with a small chance he could start. That's each players floor and ceiling, given their investment. Ultimately, it's a numbers game. The number we keep at OL is usually 9. Sometimes it's 10. It's generally 4 OT's and 5 Interior Lineman. Recently at Center, it's been a True Center (Morse) and a Backup that can be Center or Guard (Bates). Looking at the roster, I don't really see much of a path to keep Clapp: Dion Dawkins David Edwards Connor McGovern O'Cyrus Torrence Spencer Brown Ryan Van Demark SVPG That's 7 completely locked in. 4 IOL and 3 OT's. Leaving one OT and one IOL. Maybe an extra if we keep 10 this season. It comes down to: La'el Collins (Likely the 2nd Reserve OT at 1.5m guaranteed) Alec Anderson (Likely the 5th Interior OL and on the 53 all last season) Tylan Grable (Round 6 OT - likely to be the 10th OL if we keep 10, outside chance he beats out Collins as Reserve OT2) Will Clapp Richard Gouraige Travis Clayton (Round 7 OG) Keaton Bills Kevin Jarvis Gunner Britton Mike Edwards When it comes to our Centers, it's McGovern and SVPG, with each having flexibility to play Guard. Even if SVPG starts and McGovern goes back to Guard, it would be McGovern as the Backup Center. I can see a scenario where he isn't as good as SVPG, but I don't see a scenario where he simply can't play the position, even at a backup level. And instead of SVPG on the bench as one of the interior reserves, it would be Edwards. In Edwards is a guy who started 46 of 53 games before coming here, including every game for the Super Bowl Champion Rams, under Aaron Kromer. And like I said, we paid him about 3m guaranteed. If someone would come off the bench because of an injury at Center, it would be him at Guard with McGovern sliding over rather than putting in Clapp next to McGovern. They only guaranteed Clapp 287k and then Drafted SVPG after acquiring him. That really says all that needs to be said for what they think of him and the footing he has on this team. If there were a clear role for him he'd have been guaranteed more money and/or they wouldn't have Drafted SVPG. The clearest path for Clapp would be beating out Alec Anderson for the last interior spot. And I don't see that happening. They seem to really like him. And they aren't keeping 3 Centers and 6 IOL. IMO La'el Collins isn't as safe here as you're assuming. I could certainly be wrong, but I thought so even before he has been getting his butt whipped at OTAs. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 (edited) 7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: IMO La'el Collins isn't as safe here as you're assuming. I could certainly be wrong, but I thought so even before he has been getting his butt whipped at OTAs. We'll see. That's why he's not in the lock list, even with his guaranteed money. It'll come down to how ready Tylan Grable looks. Even with how he looks in OTA's, Camp, and Pre-Season, the guarantees and his experience at OT will probably take precedent unless Grable looks great and is ahead of schedule. When it comes to OT3 or OT4, guys who don't look great are pretty standard league wide - even for us. See: David Quessenberry, Bobby Hart But either way, it doesn't have any barring on whether or not we kept Clapp. It would either be one OT or another. Edited June 8 by BillsFanForever19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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