Matt Parrino - "Claypool has been most consistent WR during OTAs"

[Fan in San Diego]

Its the beginning of OTA,s Training camp hasn't even started. It's way to early to start panicking about anything. Especially the WR's.

 

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

I don’t really disagree with much of that.  I’ve generally been a proponent of both Beane and McDermott.  I’ve seen this off-season as a little different because IMO we’ve lost far too many serious people/leaders.  I worry that McD wants people he can control more than I’ve worried about that in the past.  We’ll see but ditching Diggs, Poyer, Tre, Davis, Hyde,,,…and understanding there were reasons for all of the above…..makes me worried.  They all took their craft seriously and cared primarily about winning.  Our current leaders:

 

Von Miller: A bit of a weirdo

Milano: Quiet.  Reclusive even

Allen, Know, Dawkins: Goofballs

Douglas: Another serious guy and apparently another guy having issues

 

I’m hoping Hyde comes back.

 

Who are the other guys you consider leaders?

 

I think this is a great question. 

 

Without being in the locker room with the guys, it's hard to say who might emerge as a leader this season.  We certainly need someone to step up with all the veteran leaders we've lost.  

 

In the past, Allen has said he displays his leadership by his play on the field.  While leading by example is important, it's not the be-all/end-all of leadership.   We need players who get other players to commit to "the process," pay attention in the meeting rooms, and execute on the practice field as well as the game field.  I don't know if Josh has done a lot of that previously but he did say that he'll take a bigger role this year.  

 

I agree with most of your assessments.  And in another thread, I advocated for Hyde's return for the very same reason: his leadership.  If he wasn't 40 years old, I'd want Kyle Williams back too.

[Fan in San Diego]

7 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I think this is a great question. 

 

Without being in the locker room with the guys, it's hard to say who might emerge as a leader this season.  We certainly need someone to step up with all the veteran leaders we've lost.  

 

In the past, Allen has said he displays his leadership by his play on the field.  While leading by example is important, it's not the be-all/end-all of leadership.   We need players who get other players to commit to "the process," pay attention in the meeting rooms, and execute on the practice field as well as the game field.  I don't know if Josh has done a lot of that previously but he did say that he'll take a bigger role this year.  

 

I agree with most of your assessments.  And in another thread, I advocated for Hyde's return for the very same reason: his leadership.  If he wasn't 40 years old, I'd want Kyle Williams back too.

Shedding the older players wasn't about control or leadership. It was about older players starting to get injured and this crew not able to beat KC. Beane had to come with a new approach.

[hondo in seattle]

4 minutes ago, Fan in San Diego said:

Shedding the older players wasn't about control or leadership. It was about older players starting to get injured and this crew not able to beat KC. Beane had to come with a new approach.

 

I don't disagree.  Some had lingering injury concerns.  Some were expensive.  Some were just aging out.  Beane had to make some moves.  But Morse, Poyer, White, and even Diggs were considered leaders by some of their teammates.  Someone has to fill the void.     

[racketmaster]

48 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He actually had 11 TDs in his rookie season (two rushing TDs). He also had 956 yards from scrimmage in his second season because he had 14 carries for 96 yards (6.9 yards per rushing attempt). He was legit good in his first years, and in both of those seasons he had to share the ball with a lot of other high-volume targets: Diontae Johnson (both seasons), Ju Ju (2020), Najee Harris (2021), Ebron (2020), and Freiermuth (2021). 

Agreed, and in his third year Pickens arrived and was playing outside and Claypool was moved more to the slot until he was traded. I don’t think the talent disappeared but rather I believe opportunity began to dry up as a result of poor offenses, not having handle of playbook after being traded, etc. as well as Claypool’s own immaturity and poor attitude. 
 

Given where he is at this point in his career, I think he made a wise decision to sign with the Bills even if it was for the minimum $. The Bills offer him an opportunity to play as a starter as there are no established wrs on this team as well as the ability to play with a top end qb. We also have a winning program and solid organizational structure. He probably could have gotten a little more $ from a lesser team but chose Buffalo where he will have limited distractions and can get his career back on track. If he can’t turn it around with the Bills, his NFL career will be essentially over.

 

I would bet that we see the best version of Claypool this year. what that means production wise, who really knows as it seems Brady values spreading the ball around rather than force feeding 1 player. 

[26TrapDraw]

18 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

If he’s that talented…..and he’s been kicked to the curb twice already……..no bueno.

 

I might be remembering the wrong guy but didn’t White toss him down like he was a rag doll at the LOS?

Sometimes when you've had a gift from God given to you, you can easily take it for granted. Claypool has probably coasted through pop warner high school and at Notre Dame with that sheer dominant talent. Now that he's faced some adversity at the still very young age of 25, we will absolutely see how hard he wants to work to stay elite. He's in a good place with a good staff and a great quarterback throwing him the ball. I'm rooting for the kid. He has to want to be great. God didn't give him desire he has to find that on his own.

[DJB]

7 hours ago, warrior9 said:

I did watch a LOT of him at FSU. 

 

We aren't talking about stats, you said you saw a lot of bad film, I did not. Of course there are bad plays, everyone has bad plays.

What I saw was a lack of diversity in his route tree, which is not his fault. When you have a predictable route tree and only run 4 routes (he basically ran go, post, slant, hitch, that's really it), it's MUCH easier to press and sit... Yet he still had 50 catches avg 13.2 YPC. 

 

I do think he lacks a "burst" but that's not his game. That's why we have Curtis Samuel and Shakiir, etc. He did not have "bad film" that is a ludicrous statement. 

You insinuating that GM's looked at his tape and thought "this is bad, let's pick him round 1 or 2" as a consensus. 

Im a Bills fan I hope he succeeds but I stand by my assessment of him 

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, racketmaster said:

It seems like the majority of fans in Buffalo and around the league, see Claypool as a joke, someone who flashed early and became a head case. By many, Claypool as seen as a lottery ticket that is unlikely to pay off. To me it is an overreaction to the miserable 2nd half of the 22 season and disappearing almost entirely in 23 season. 

 

 

Claypool's problems started 3 seasons ago not mid-way thru 2022.

 

Thru 11 games in 2021 Claypool was averaging almost 70 yards receiving per game.

 

He seemed like a lock to get 1,000+ yards despite missing 2 games to injury.

 

Then he pulled that idiotic stunt in Minnesota..........made a fool of himself blaming a teammate for it afterward........and has been hot garbage ever since.

 

Over his last 4 games of 2021 he averaged an anemic 27 yards per game and crashed way short of 1,000.........and then he was terrible in their  the playoff loss where he caught 3 passes on 7 targets for 25 yards.

 

The next season he was lousy in Pittsburgh before being traded.

 

 

Edited June 7 by BADOLBILZ

[racketmaster]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Claypool's problems started 3 seasons ago not mid-way thru 2022.

 

Thru 11 games in 2021 Claypool was averaging almost 70 yards receiving per game.

 

He seemed like a lock to get 1,000+ yards despite missing 2 games to injury.

 

Then he pulled that idiotic stunt in Minnesota..........made a fool of himself blaming a teammate for it afterward........and has been hot garbage ever since.

 

Over his last 4 games of 2021 he averaged an anemic 27 yards per game and crashed way short of 1,000.........and then he was terrible in their  the playoff loss where he caught 3 passes on 7 targets for 25 yards.

 

The next season he was lousy in Pittsburgh before being traded.

 

 

It seems like from a mentality perspective (immaturity/ego) it would make sense to point out his issues beginning 3 years ago. But he continued to flash his talent albeit that the flashes were sporadic until he was traded from Pittsburgh midway thru 22 season. He has essentially had no statistical production on the field since. But I believe his physical ability has not disappeared. He had a highly productive 7 catches on 7 target game for 96 yds and a td against Tampa Bay just a few weeks before he was traded to the Bears. 
 

From a mentality perspective, he appears to have lost his way some time following his rookie year. I just think that the combination of his attitude, antics, being in a poor situation (whether bad coaching, being shifted inside from outside wr or poor qb play) have reduced his on field production to being almost zero. 
 

If Claypool fails to have any further success in the NFL it will be more because of his attitude rather than his talent. When production on field is high, teams can put up with some extra drama (like Diggs) but when the production declines to a certain point the team tends to want to remove the headache/distraction (like Diggs being minimized from offense second half of last year and viewed by the team as no longer essential). I don’t think Diggs lost his talent midway last season, the team just chose to emphasize the run game and spread the ball around. 
 

It is quite possible that Claypool never really learns and his attitude dooms his career because that is just who he is as a person. But I do believe there is a better than 50/50 chance that given the right environment, his attitude problem will be minimal and that could allow his physical talent to shine thru again and he could gain trust from his coaches and qb. 
 

Claypool is just 25 and we know having high production at the wr position is very dependent on variables outside of the ability of the player (scheme/coaching/qb play/line play etc). Claypool has shot himself in the foot with his own immaturity but if he can fit in with the “Bills dna” I see no reason he cannot be a solid contributor as a wr this year and possibly hit statistical measures of his first 2 years in terms of catches and yardage. But I would say the most likely scenario would be he is a rotational wr this year that can be part of a productive wr group. Even in this scenario, it could be beneficial to Claypool’s career and future in the league to just do his job when called upon, not be a distraction. 

[NewEra]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 ........and then he was terrible in their  the playoff loss where he caught 3 passes on 7 targets for 25 yards.

 

 

 

Saw the stats and immediately thought of Stefon Diggs’ last 3 postseasons 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, racketmaster said:

It seems like from a mentality perspective (immaturity/ego) it would make sense to point out his issues beginning 3 years ago. But he continued to flash his talent albeit that the flashes were sporadic until he was traded from Pittsburgh midway thru 22 season. He has essentially had no statistical production on the field since. But I believe his physical ability has not disappeared. He had a highly productive 7 catches on 7 target game for 96 yds and a td against Tampa Bay just a few weeks before he was traded to the Bears. 

 

 

No, from a production perspective his issues began in 2021 and have gradually worsened. 

 

No need to play Dr. Phil @racketmaster...........he's just sucked since then.

 

One notable game over the next 40 game stretch isn't "continuing" to flash talent.

 

It's one good game.

 

Some of you act like he just needs to adopt a positive attitude about his situation.  He's a sh!t show in terms of technique.   He literally ended the Dolphins season last year with that sh!t route he ran that Rapp intercepted.   Coach killer type of play.  

 

Players who don't really WANT to be great at football end up looking like Claypool does on the field.   See Aaron Maybin.   

 

I have no problem giving talented washouts a camp flyer but Claypool could be a total tomato can in TC and he might beat out the nobodies they got fighting for 6 or 7 in this suspect WR corps.   He's not necessarily even really being asked to step up that much to potentially get one more NFL paycheck before he can retire to the safety of the TSN studio to be a CFL talking head.  

[Bangarang]

The mental gymnastics in here is crazy. If there was an article about how Claypool was the Pats most consistent WR we'd all be laughing at them for having a trash WR room.

 

I have a hard time seeing the offense not struggle a lot this year because of our WRs. The position was an area of need even before Diggs lost a step and we got rid of him. 

Edited June 7 by Bangarang

[racketmaster]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

No, from a production perspective his issues began in 2021 and have gradually worsened. 

 

No need to play Dr. Phil @racketmaster...........he's just sucked since then.

 

One notable game over the next 40 game stretch isn't "continuing" to flash talent.

 

It's one good game.

 

Some of you act like he just needs to adopt a positive attitude about his situation.  He's a sh!t show in terms of technique.   He literally ended the Dolphins season last year with that sh!t route he ran that Rapp intercepted.   Coach killer type of play.  

 

Players who don't really WANT to be great at football end up looking like Claypool does on the field.   See Aaron Maybin.   

 

I have no problem giving talented washouts a camp flyer but Claypool could be a total tomato can in TC and he might beat out the nobodies they got fighting for 6 or 7 in this suspect WR corps.   He's not necessarily even really being asked to step up that much to potentially get one more NFL paycheck before he can retire to the safety of the TSN studio to be a CFL talking head.  

I guess we can just agree to disagree. I don’t know if I can recall a situation where a wr has been that productive his first 2 years and then just completely disappeared. We are also talking about a high 2nd round pick that was traded for a 2nd round pick less than 2 years ago. So NFL personnel seem to agree Claypool is highly talented. I don’t think his ability and talent just vanished at the end of 21 when Big Ben’s arm was completely shot. 
 

It is possible that Claypool is a complete head case and the mental part does not allow for him to let his ability show on the field. I just think it is hard to ignore that there have been many hurdles since even the second half of his sophomore season with his qb lost the ability to throw over 10 yard past the line of scrimmage. Those things matter as well as being traded mid season twice and trying to learn a new system. 
 

The effort on the blocking in one of the games in Chicago seems to be slightly exaggerated and overplayed based on watching the replays and the route with Miami last year was not great but he was running into double coverage and Tua made a horrible decision and pass as well. 
 

If Claypool is as disinterested and bad as you indicate he would have never been able to be as productive as he was early in his career. I am not saying that Claypool is a Randy Moss like talent but if you go back to the time Moss was with the Raiders he was terrible and considered a cancer to the team. People thought he was shot and then he goes to a top notch organization with a HOF qb in NE and he instantly becomes a superstar again. Randy Moss was written off and considered done by many until he went to NE. I don’t thing it is unreasonable to believe that being in a solid organization and with a top qb can make Claypool be on his best behavior and be able to be a productive wr for the Bills this year. 

Edited June 7 by racketmaster

[BADOLBILZ]

54 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

I guess we can just agree to disagree. I don’t know if I can recall a situation where a wr has been that productive his first 2 years and then just completely disappeared. We are also talking about a high 2nd round pick that was traded for a 2nd round pick less than 2 years ago. So NFL personnel seem to agree Claypool is highly talented. I don’t think his ability and talent just vanished at the end of 21 when Big Ben’s arm was completely shot. 
 

It is possible that Claypool is a complete head case and the mental part does not allow for him to let his ability show on the field. I just think it is hard to ignore that there have been many hurdles since even the second half of his sophomore season with his qb lost the ability to throw over 10 yard past the line of scrimmage. Those things matter as well as being traded mid season twice and trying to learn a new system. 
 

The effort on the blocking in one of the games in Chicago seems to be slightly exaggerated and overplayed based on watching the replays and the route with Miami last year was not great but he was running into double coverage and Tua made a horrible decision and pass as well. 
 

If Claypool is as disinterested and bad as you indicate he would have never been able to be as productive as he was early in his career. I am not saying that Claypool is a Randy Moss like talent but if you go back to the time Moss was with the Raiders he was terrible and considered a cancer to the team. People thought he was shot and then he goes to a top notch organization with a HOF qb in NE and he instantly becomes a superstar again. Randy Moss was written off and considered done by many until he went to NE. I don’t thing it is unreasonable to believe that being in a solid organization and with a top qb can make Claypool be on his best behavior and be able to be a productive wr for the Bills this year. 

 

 

The issue here is likelihood.   

 

Hope is not a strategy.

 

It's unlikely that a player who has been unproductive for 2+ seasons and a locker-room problem for the past 3 seasons is going to become productive and not a problem.    And yes, there were issues with him with the Steelers all thru 2021.   Simply put, he's been a low character, coach-killer type of a player.   

[without a drought]

Most consistent makes me think of Chris Hogan, being OTAs makes me think even less than that.

 

I'm hoping for the best, but this is not a needle mover.

[Putin]

14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The issue here is likelihood.   

 

Hope is not a strategy.

 

It's unlikely that a player who has been unproductive for 2+ seasons and a locker-room problem for the past 3 seasons is going to become productive and not a problem.    And yes, there were issues with him with the Steelers all thru 2021.   Simply put, he's been a low character, coach-killer type of a player.   

So you’re saying there is a chance 

[Fan in San Diego]

I'm hoping Claypool's biggest problem has been maturity in the past. A man's brain is not even mature until around 27. So hopefully his decision making skills are much improved this year.

[Sharky7337]

If anything this would be the most depressing and alarming thing. If claypool is the best what does that say about the rest.

[BigAl2526]

Hopefully, this says more about Claypool, his renewed attitude and maturity combined with his obvious physical skills, than the efforts of the other receivers on the roster.  I'm not surprised that Coleman has had some rookie issues with getting open versus NFL level CBs, but I haven't heard much of anything about the rest of the receivers.

[billsfan89]

Over on the NFL Reddit page in a thread about Claypool Bears fans were saying there were similar reports about Claypool last off-season. Given that Claypool has a tremendous physical profile along with years of experience it isn't surprising to hear he's able to stand out in OTA's. The issues came when it was "live rounds" in camp and pre-season that only got worse during the regular season.