3rdand12 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 2 minutes ago, NoSaint said: no offense but I think you are overshooting the talent left off. I think essentially any of those are a breeze to get on the practice squad or ***** an equivalent peer from another squad. There’s no shortage of late rounders or high picks that washed out available around the league especially if a guy like claypool can be active on special teams I think that's where he sits. he is going to have to secure a role in teams Not sure if it is standard practice , but thought any WR listed as 4t and beyond Must play teams. Cuz math Bills offense will not be predicated on having a 1A and even a 1B in truth. At this point. They have 3 2As lol This will change but it might be a good few games in , or might just be week to week matchups. Hope Josh can scan both sides of the field on most plays lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 11 hours ago, mrags said: I think they being in 7 this year. So I’d add Hamler, or Shorter to that list. I think Shavers and Isabella both clear waivers and make the practice team. I too think there's an outside shot at McD keeping 7. I love this top 6 list but have no clue who that 7th wr would be? Probably does come down to Hamler/Shorter. But neither are seeing any substantial targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 11 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Unless they drastically both outplay the competition, I think it will be one spot for either Scantling or Claypool as feel the team will more want to give that last roster spot to someone younger who could stick around with the team longer. Shorter is locked up for another 3 years I'd imagine on rookie contract so could more see him sticking and taking the last slot. A 5th round wr is hardly a lock to play his final years. So far we know nothing about Shorter's project-ability. We at least have a decent first 2 year resume on Claypool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsDiehard Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 7 hours ago, mushypeaches said: Where's Robert Foster and Duke Williams on this list? Jake Kumerow 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 8 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said: They had 5 last year. 6 is questionable....... Technically if you count Isabella which you should because he played in multiple games, we had 6. But we’ll see this year. 4 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: I too think there's an outside shot at McD keeping 7. I love this top 6 list but have no clue who that 7th wr would be? Probably does come down to Hamler/Shorter. But neither are seeing any substantial targets. I’m not saying for sore there will be. But it appears that they may find a spot for an extra guy based on STs snaps, or that extra body for run blocking like they used Sherfield last year. Or maybe they can’t trust who they have with 6 and want to take extra bites of that apple. idk. They probably won’t because McDemott loves running the ball so much and seems to hate skilled WRs imo. So he probably won’t keep more than 6. But I personally think there’s a shot at it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 6 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: Only $1.1 M of Hollins salary is guaranteed and $500k of that has already been paid. So only would be another $600K to cut him. I wouldn't call that a lock. Fair point about the finances alone, but given how McDermott and Beane are already raving about Hollins' influence in the locker room, and with Beane calling him a "glue guy", I'd still bet my bottom dollar that Hollins is very close to a lock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 1 hour ago, mrags said: Technically if you count Isabella which you should because he played in multiple games, we had 6. But we’ll see this year. No he was never on the 53. He was a practice squad player and had a couple of call ups. That does not count as being on the 53. If you want to count practice squad the. You can add a few but that is not how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFan Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Samuel, Coleman and Shakir are set in stone Hollins, because of this special teams skills is probably a lock for a job. That leaves Shorter, MVS and Claypool fighting for one or 2 jobs. If I had to guess right now they keep six and Shorter is sent to the practice squad. In this scenario. Claypool and MVS make the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djp14150 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 On 6/5/2024 at 7:19 AM, MarlinTheMagician said: What is final WR room? Usually keep six, so feels to me like: 1. Coleman 2. Shakir 3. Samuel 4. Hollins 5. Scantling 6. Claypool That leaves some meaningfully high draft picks (and perhaps talent) on the outside looking in. Shorter, Hamler, and Isabella for starters. And Shavers. Does anyone have.a different view? Interested in the Board's thoughts on two things: 1. Hamler in particular seems like a potentially valuable player if he can stay healthy. Don't really have another guy like him. Could he knock out one of the "big receivers" like Scantling, Hollins or Claypool? Having the four "bigs" of Coleman, Hollins, Scantling and Claypool seems a little redundant - keeping Hamler over one of those would make it 3 bigs and 3 smaller, shiftier players. 2. I also have no idea what Shorter or Shavers really bring - but they seem to be directly competing with Hollins/Scantling/Claypool for back-up "big receiver" roles. Do they have a path? Only houtpr girst 4 I der. vedted veterans don’t have to clear waivers snd go on thr PS like if Buffalo has injuries and want to put young te river on in season IR ot keep them because they won’t clear. right now I only see 5 WRs on the roster one more for returner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 (edited) When it comes to who's likely to stay, Beane's track record over the past 7 years prior overrules anyone's personal opinion of the players, IMO. Only once in all of the MANY signings he's made to my memory has he released a veteran FA from another team he's signed to guaranteed money in the same offseason (O.J. Howard). So if you're signed to guaranteed money, he did so with a role in mind and are very unlikely to be cut IMO. Let's look at those signed to guarantees over a million: Curtis Samuel - 15m guaranteed MVS - 2.25m guaranteed Mack Hollins - 1.1m guaranteed Hollins at 1.1m isn't as safe as the other two from a guaranteed money standpoint. But being that he was signed within the first couple days of FA, it's clear he's someone Beane targeted early for a specific role on the team. So to me, that makes him pretty safe, even if the guarantees aren't much. Another big tell with him is Draft investments. Like Howard being the one exception in all of the FA's signed when it comes to guaranteed money being cut, there's only ever been one Draft Pick he's ever released without being given a spot on the 53 from Rounds 1-5 (Vosean Joseph). With that in mind, you can point to Keon Coleman (obviously) and Justin Shorter being safe. So from a purely characteristic standpoint, based on history, Beane's 6 (as I believe 6 will be the number this year) would be: Keon Coleman Curtis Samuel Khalil Shakir MVS Mack Hollins Justin Shorter However, this scenario based on history would see Chase Claypool being cut. And if the reviews from OTA's are to be believed and he keeps on that path, I don't know how he'd not earn a spot on the 53. Which would mean Beane would have to make 1 uncharacteristic move to make him fit. Either he releases someone he gave guaranteed money to or he releases a prior to Round 6 Draft pick without ever being given a chance to develop on the roster. And given the investments made, it's pretty clear to me there's two options for that: Cut Mack Hollins or Cut Justin Shorter If I had to guess what's more likely between the two, it'd come down to the player they feel they'd more likely be able to get back on the Practice Squad. It's for this reason that KJ Hamler isn't even a consideration for me. If he's cut from a 3rd team and 3rd Strike in under a year, after being declared a bust by his Drafting team after a 2nd Round investment - no amount of Pre-Season game tape with Trubisky or Buechele is going to make him desirable to be signed to another teams 53, like Isabella before him. We know we'd easily get him back on the Practice Squad, which makes him an easy cut. On one hand, Hollins would be very desirable to teams looking for Special Teams help. As is often the case with teams snagging others for their 53, it's generally bottom of the roster guys for Teams help. With Hollins, you have an experienced vet who could jump right in cold and do that. On the other, Draft Picks from other teams who have traits like Shorter's Size and Speed combination that haven't been developed is also attractive to teams when it comes to poaching. But when push comes to shove, I believe they'll feel it's more likely they'll get Shorter back. So gut feeling, I believe the 53 man WR core will be: Keon Coleman Curtis Samuel Khalil Shakir MVS Chase Claypool Mack Hollins There is a scenario based on past history that we keep 7. It's something we've done 2 years under Beane in the past. And with the investments made, it would make sense that it would be a consideration. However, that was generally a scenario where the extra player (Kumerow) was kept exclusively for Special Teams and wasn't even really viewed as a WR (like Taiwan Jones was a 4th "RB"). I believe we'll have enough ST's at WR and other positions where that won't be necessary. And combined with having Kincaid, who is a WR with the TE label (which is why we only kept 5 last season), I don't see it as very likely that we'll carry not 1, but 2 more WR's than last season. Edited June 6 by BillsFanForever19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 I'm expecting there to be less of an actual "pecking order" this year if you will. Especially with "everybody is gonna eat" comments I'd say at the moment there are basically groups On field the most, moved around Samuel Shakir Coleman WR 3-4 in various packages / alternate by committee MVS Claypool Hollins Battle to make roster Hamler Shavers Shorter Everyone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerBillsFan Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 23 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: When it comes to who's likely to stay, Beane's track record over the past 7 years prior overrules anyone's personal opinion of the players, IMO. Only once in all of the MANY signings he's made to my memory has he released a veteran FA from another team he's signed to guaranteed money in the same offseason (O.J. Howard). So if you're signed to guaranteed money, he did so with a role in mind and are very unlikely to be cut IMO. Let's look at those signed to guarantees over a million: Curtis Samuel - 15m guaranteed MVS - 2.25m guaranteed Mack Hollins - 1.1m guaranteed Hollins at 1.1m isn't as safe as the other two from a guaranteed money standpoint. But being that he was signed within the first couple days of FA, it's clear he's someone Beane targeted early for a specific role on the team. So to me, that makes him pretty safe, even if the guarantees aren't much. Another big tell with him is Draft investments. Like Howard being the one exception in all of the FA's signed when it comes to guaranteed money being cut, there's only ever been one Draft Pick he's ever released without being given a spot on the 53 from Rounds 1-5 (Vosean Joseph). With that in mind, you can point to Keon Coleman (obviously) and Justin Shorter being safe. So from a purely characteristic standpoint, based on history, Beane's 6 (as I believe 6 will be the number this year) would be: Keon Coleman Curtis Samuel Khalil Shakir MVS Mack Hollins Justin Shorter However, this scenario based on history would see Chase Claypool being cut. And if the reviews from OTA's are to be believed and he keeps on that path, I don't know how he'd not earn a spot on the 53. Which would mean Beane would have to make 1 uncharacteristic move to make him fit. Either he releases someone he gave guaranteed money to or he releases a prior to Round 6 Draft pick without ever being given a chance to develop on the roster. And given the investments made, it's pretty clear to me there's two options for that: Cut Mack Hollins or Cut Justin Shorter If I had to guess what's more likely between the two, it'd come down to the player they feel they'd more likely be able to get back on the Practice Squad. It's for this reason that KJ Hamler isn't even a consideration for me. If he's cut from a 3rd team and 3rd Strike in under a year, after being declared a bust by his Drafting team after a 2nd Round investment - no amount of Pre-Season game tape with Trubisky or Buechele is going to make him desirable to be signed to another teams 53, like Isabella before him. We know we'd easily get him back on the Practice Squad, which makes him an easy cut. On one hand, Hollins would be very desirable to teams looking for Special Teams help. As is often the case with teams snagging others for their 53, it's generally bottom of the roster guys for Teams help. With Hollins, you have an experienced vet who could jump right in cold and do that. On the other, Draft Picks from other teams who have traits like Shorter's Size and Speed combination that haven't been developed is also attractive to teams when it comes to poaching. But when push comes to shove, I believe they'll feel it's more likely they'll get Shorter back. So gut feeling, I believe the 53 man WR core will be: Keon Coleman Curtis Samuel Khalil Shakir MVS Chase Claypool Mack Hollins There is a scenario based on past history that we keep 7. It's something we've done 2 years under Beane in the past. And with the investments made, it would make sense that it would be a consideration. However, that was generally a scenario where the extra player (Kumerow) was kept exclusively for Special Teams and wasn't even really viewed as a WR (like Taiwan Jones was a 4th "RB"). I believe we'll have enough ST's at WR and other positions where that won't be necessary. And combined with having Kincaid, who is a WR with the TE label (which is why we only kept 5 last season), I don't see it as very likely that we'll carry not 1, but 2 more WR's than last season. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 On 6/5/2024 at 8:43 AM, SoCal Deek said: Thanks for simple list! What stands out to me is how the WR room will be filled with only two guys we drafted (one who’s yet to play a snap) and then a bunch of guys we found in the union hall. Lol, it is such a bad group on paper. It’s like a drought era position group playing with the guy that will end up as the best player we’ve ever had. Weird. I agree on the 6 from the OP. Claypool has ability and is good in shorts. If he’s focused he will have to play some. Otherwise it’s a mix of different role players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Lol, it is such a bad group on paper. It’s like a drought era position group playing with the guy that will end up as the best player we’ve ever had. Weird. I agree on the 6 from the OP. Claypool has ability and is good in shorts. If he’s focused he will have to play some. Otherwise it’s a mix of different role players. I’m not sure if it’s bad or good. I’m just a bit shocked at how few Bills draft picks are in that list. If you remove Coleman, who again has yet to play a snap all of you have left is Shakir. Maybe that’s true of most position groups in the modern NFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 I think Hollins lost his job with the MVS signing. I'd expect him to be released and added to the practice squad. 1. Coleman 2. Shakir 3. Samuel 4. Shorter 5. Scantling 6. Claypool/Hamler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 (edited) 5 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: I think Hollins lost his job with the MVS signing. I'd expect him to be released and added to the practice squad. 1. Coleman 2. Shakir 3. Samuel 4. Shorter 5. Scantling 6. Claypool/Hamler I don't see that. Hollins was brought in largely for his Special Teams experience/ability and for being an above average blocker from the WR position. MVS provides none of that. They'll both be here. It'll come down to Shorter or Claypool. Outside chance he keeps 7 and they both stick. Hamler has a Practice Squad ceiling. Like Isabella before him, no amount of good Pre-Season film with Trubisky/Buechele against 3rd stringers and players who will end up on the street is going to take the stink of his bust label off him, after being released by 3 teams in a year. It's without a doubt we'll be able to retain him on the Practice Squad, like it was after Isabella's strong Pre-Season. As opposed to Shorter or Claypool, where there's a higher chance we wouldn't be able to. Edited June 9 by BillsFanForever19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubanmist 1 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 On 6/5/2024 at 7:19 AM, MarlinTheMagician said: What is final WR room? Usually keep six, so feels to me like: 1. Coleman 2. Shakir 3. Samuel 4. Hollins 5. Scantling 6. Claypool That leaves some meaningfully high draft picks (and perhaps talent) on the outside looking in. Shorter, Hamler, and Isabella for starters. And Shavers. Does anyone have.a different view? Interested in the Board's thoughts on two things: 1. Hamler in particular seems like a potentially valuable player if he can stay healthy. Don't really have another guy like him. Could he knock out one of the "big receivers" like Scantling, Hollins or Claypool? Having the four "bigs" of Coleman, Hollins, Scantling and Claypool seems a little redundant - keeping Hamler over one of those would make it 3 bigs and 3 smaller, shiftier players. 2. I also have no idea what Shorter or Shavers really bring - but they seem to be directly competing with Hollins/Scantling/Claypool for back-up "big receiver" roles. Do they have a path? Not sure if Samuel makes this team. I say that he gets waived and then the Bills will trade for one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 10 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: I don't see that. Hollins was brought in largely for his Special Teams experience/ability and for being an above average blocker from the WR position. MVS provides none of that. They'll both be here. It'll come down to Shorter or Claypool. Outside chance he keeps 7 and they both stick. Hamler has a Practice Squad ceiling. Like Isabella before him, no amount of good Pre-Season film with Trubisky/Buechele against 3rd stringers and players who will end up on the street is going to take the stink of his bust label off him, after being released by 3 teams in a year. It's without a doubt we'll be able to retain him on the Practice Squad, like it was after Isabella's strong Pre-Season. As opposed to Shorter or Claypool, where there's a higher chance we wouldn't be able to. I have Hamler as a stronger consideration than Hollins as we don't have a kick returner on the roster right now. They have Shakir penciled in on the official depth chart right now, but I'd be floored if that's the plan as I expect him to be a massive part of the offense. Hamler has experience doing it in college and a handful of tries in the pros. If he makes the roster, i expect it to be for that reason. If he's not the KR, Then I think they keep shorter instead. I understand Hollins plays a different role than MVS, but signing MVS will likely reduce the opportunities that Hollins would get on the roster. in 6 professional seasons, Hollins has 1 year exceeding 251 yards receiving. I just think even a reserve should have a higher floor than that. I understand that the front office thinks that Trent Sherfield role is important, but there has to be a limit. It would be great is a guy could block, play special teams and actually contribute on offense if needed. I'm hoping Shorter (or even one of the UDFAs) is that guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) 2 hours ago, Cubanmist 1 said: Not sure if Samuel makes this team. I say that he gets waived and then the Bills will trade for one There goes almost most of our remaining cap money this yeear if he's waived 🤣. The only three I see as locks are Coleman, Shakir, and Samuel. I'd think they'd want at least two bigger bodies that can block with at least one (probably two) having special teams props. Percentage wise to make the roster if they kept six I'd go: Pry WR 4 and 5 MVS: 95% Mack Hollins: 90% WR 6 assuming those two above make it because I don't want to get weird with math (if they keep six) Claypool: 35% Shorter: 30% Isabella: 20% Shavers: 7% Hamler: 4% Thompson: 3% Johnson:0.8% Keys: 0.2% Edited June 9 by Doc Brown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 7 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: I have Hamler as a stronger consideration than Hollins as we don't have a kick returner on the roster right now. They have Shakir penciled in on the official depth chart right now, but I'd be floored if that's the plan as I expect him to be a massive part of the offense. Hamler has experience doing it in college and a handful of tries in the pros. If he makes the roster, i expect it to be for that reason. If he's not the KR, Then I think they keep shorter instead. I understand Hollins plays a different role than MVS, but signing MVS will likely reduce the opportunities that Hollins would get on the roster. in 6 professional seasons, Hollins has 1 year exceeding 251 yards receiving. I just think even a reserve should have a higher floor than that. I understand that the front office thinks that Trent Sherfield role is important, but there has to be a limit. It would be great is a guy could block, play special teams and actually contribute on offense if needed. I'm hoping Shorter (or even one of the UDFAs) is that guy It's possible but they also have Ty Johnson and maybe will have Curtis Samuel return kickoffs with the new rules in place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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