Joe Marino talks what the Bills have to do to beat KC in playoffs

[Billl]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You're not swapping rosters w the Bengals over the last 3 years foh w this

So Zac Taylor must just be an elite coach given that he’s dominated the Bills and has gone 2-1 against the Chiefs in the regular season and 1-1 in the postseason. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

You're not swapping rosters w the Bengals over the last 3 years foh w this

Dude 100%.
 

What?

 

You can’t talk about WR’s being force multipliers for franchise QB’s for like 24 months and then change your tune now.

 

I would trade rosters with the Dolphins, the Niners, the Eagles, the Bengals this SECOND.

 

Josh would have 60+ tuddies with a stable of great pass catchers.

 

Sure, they will have to pay Chase $30M but at least he’s a star. We are paying big money to stiffs like Von and Knox to do what, exactly?

 

This is what I’m talking about. The Bills roster has been sooooo overrated lol

[GoBills808]

Just now, FireChans said:

Dude 100%.
 

What?

 

You can’t talk about WR’s being force multipliers for franchise QB’s for like 24 months and then change your tune now.

 

I would trade rosters with the Dolphins, the Niners, the Eagles, the Bengals this SECOND.

 

Josh would have 60+ tuddies with a stable of great pass catchers.

 

Sure, they will have to pay Chase $30M but at least he’s a star. We are paying big money to stiffs like Von and Knox to do what, exactly?

 

This is what I’m talking about. The Bills roster has been sooooo overrated lol

Bro Allen is part of the deal

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Bro Allen is part of the deal

Ooooo okay.

 

that makes more sense. QB’s aside, I 1000% take the Bengals roster of the last 3 years.

 

They are better at all the important positions. We have had great safeties and linebackers and running backs.

11 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

 

In 2019, Zac Taylor and the Bengals went 2-14.

 

In 2020 draft, they picked Joe Burrow #1 overall, and then picked Tee Higgins with the first pick in the second round. The Bills traded their pick, #22, for Steph Diggs. Hindsight 20/20 maybe we should have picked a WR there instead, but I wouldn't call that a bad move in context.

 

The Bengals went 4-11-1 in 2020 and almost got Joe Burrow killed. Zac Taylor won 6 games in 2 years. With the #5 pick, they draft Jamar Chase. The Bills picked 30th that year. 

 

The Bengals built that team because they won 6 games in two years. It wasn't amazing GM or coaching decisions. 

Higgins went 33 in 2020. For the Bills to get him they wouldn't have had Diggs. Diggs>Higgins from 2020-2023. He'd also be tied with Coleman for the 4th highest drafted player on the team since 2020.

Oh hey, don’t forget we took Cody Ford in our sucky year when they took Tee Higgins lol

Edited June 14 by FireChans

[Mikey152]

21 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You know we won 6 games with a rookie Josh and picked Oliver in the top 10, right?

 

You know we had 2 first round picks in 2018 and picked an amazing QB, and a MLB who is quite literally just “okay” and doesn’t play here no mo?

 

The Bengals took Burrow and Chase in their 2 sucky years.

 

We took Josh, Edmunds and Oliver.

 

Chase >>>>> Edmunds+Oliver, obviously.

 

Chase wasn't in the 2018 or 2019 draft. The first WR drafted in the 2019 draft was Marquise Brown in the 20s. In hindsight, maybe we could have taken Simmons or Sweat or Burns and be marginally better off, but DL was the right pick at that point. The real miss that year was Cody Ford, but guys like AJ and DK weren't slam dunks at the time. In fact, lots of people on this board hated DK.

 

As for 2018...in hindsight maybe staying at 22 and getting DJ Moore or Calvin Ridley would have been better. But who knows if we trade for Diggs? Or sign John Brown. 

16 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Ooooo okay.

 

that makes more sense. QB’s aside, I 1000% take the Bengals roster of the last 3 years.

 

They are better at all the important positions. We have had great safeties and linebackers and running backs.

Oh hey, don’t forget we took Cody Ford in our sucky year when they took Tee Higgins lol

Wrong year. We took Ford in 2019. Higgins was 2020. We missed on Brown and Metcalf, though.

 

 

I do want to go on record that I think assigning "blame" to coaches and GMs and players for failing to do more than winning the division and winning at least one playoff game every year since 2020 is really kind of silly.  I hope at the very least you all realize we are making mountains out of molehills.

Edited June 14 by Mikey152

[FireChans]

20 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

Chase wasn't in the 2018 or 2019 draft. The first WR drafted in the 2019 draft was Marquise Brown in the 20s. In hindsight, maybe we could have taken Simmons or Sweat or Burns and be marginally better off, but DL was the right pick at that point. The real miss that year was Cody Ford, but guys like AJ and DK weren't slam dunks at the time. In fact, lots of people on this board hated DK.

 

As for 2018...in hindsight maybe staying at 22 and getting DJ Moore or Calvin Ridley would have been better. But who knows if we trade for Diggs? Or sign John Brown. 

Wrong year. We took Ford in 2019. Higgins was 2020. We missed on Brown and Metcalf, though.

 

 

I do want to go on record that I think assigning "blame" to coaches and GMs and players for failing to do more than winning the division and winning at least one playoff game every year since 2020 is really kind of silly.  I hope at the very least you all realize we are making mountains out of molehills.

Dude I know they aren’t the same year. The point is that they drafted impact players when they sucked. We didn’t.

[Rampant Buffalo]

Under McDermott, the Bills have had four postseason games against the Chiefs and Bengals. Four postseason games, four defensive collapses. Never more than two defensive stops in any of those four games. Two defensive stops is not enough to give your team a chance to win.

 

Look at the playoff game that Joe Burrow and the Bengals won at the expense of the Chiefs. Burrow's defense generated six defensive stops, including one in overtime. That was barely a good enough defensive performance for the Bengals to get the win. This most recent Super Bowl, the 49ers defense generated seven stops against the Chiefs, while losing in a close game.

 

Who are the culprits for the near-total failure of our defense in our postseason losses?

 

Beane. He's invested a ton of resources in our DL. The DL hasn't played up to that investment.

Bad luck. This most recent playoff loss, the defense was devastated by injuries.

 

But, above all, culprit #1 has been the complete failure of defensive coaching. Consistently, the Bills' defensive coaches have called a soft zone/prevent defense. If you want to get defensive stops, you have to let your guys make plays. If you tell your DBs to simply allow the other team to get 8 - 12 yard gains, you're not permitting them to make plays. 

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Mikey152 said:

Not for nothing, but one of the downsides of being the second best team in the NFL for 5 years is we pick pretty low in the draft every year.

 

IMO, that's the big reason we have a solid roster, but not a lot of stars. Most stars are top picks, minus a few lucky picks. I looked at WR over the last 5 years, and by the time the Bills picked all the top guys were gone every year outside of that brutal Cody Ford draft. Beane himself even made a casual reference to the fact that the Bengals built their team by sucking...he doesn't have that luxury.

 

I sometimes forget this.  Good point.

We're not good enough to win the Super Bowl.  But not bad enough to get good draft picks.

 

It sucks being in the middle class.  

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I sometimes forget this.  Good point.

We're not good enough to win the Super Bowl.  But not bad enough to get good draft picks.

 

It sucks being in the middle class.  

It's not a good point. We had high picks in 2019 and 2 first rounders in 2018.

 

Bengals took Burrow, Chase, Higgins when they had 3 picks in the top 38.

 

We took Josh, Edmunds, Oliver, Ford when we had 4 picks in the top 38.

 

It's literally the reason they have better stars. They nailed 3 of their high picks, and we nailed 1.

Edited June 14 by FireChans

[Mikey152]

18 minutes ago, FireChans said:

It's not a good point. We had high picks in 2019 and 2 first rounders in 2018.

 

Bengals took Burrow, Chase, Higgins when they had 3 picks in the top 38.

 

We took Josh, Edmunds, Oliver, Ford when we had 4 picks in the top 38.

 

It's literally the reason they have better stars. They nailed 3 of their high picks, and we nailed 1.

They weren't the same drafts...

 

Look at those drafts and tell me how you would have picked them different

 

Also "top 38" is a bit disingenuous. Chase and Burrow were top 5. Our highest pick was Ed Oliver at 9, and that 2019 draft we had it in was a defensive draft...the best players in the first round are all defense (and a RB)

[billsfan89]

Bills simply need a few things to bounce their way in order to beat KC. 

 

1. Health - The Bills in 2020, 2022, and 2023 were not healthy during the playoffs. In 2020 and 2023 they were vastly depleted as the playoffs went on. In 2020 against KC the Bills went into the game with John Brown, Gabe Davis, and Cole Beasley all banged up at WR, then early in the game Diggs got hurt on a dirty play leaving on I-Mac as the only healthy WR. 2022 the Bills defensive line was completely banged up as were most of their team. 2023 the Bills went into the playoffs fairly healthy but lost basically their complete LB core to injury during the Steelers game (definitely need to upgrade the field to be heated as I think icy conditions caused at least 2-3 of those injuries). 
2. Luck - Tim Duncan said it best it takes a lot of luck to win a championship. 2021 the Bills gave KC their best game and they choked in 13 seconds. They also didn't have Tre White due to a Thanksgiving injury which led to a slow CB core that gave up big plays to Hill. The Bills need to be lucky with injuries and key matchups in order to get past KC in the post season. 

There's a lot of other factors like Roster Construction, defense showing up, and coaching that are in the Bills control. The Bills have to keep investing heavily top picks into the offense and make due with less cap dollars and less high draft choices on defense. Which I think generally speaking they are doing a better job of doing. Back to back years the top pick was spent on a pass catcher for example. Hopefully the Bills get the timing right and win the big one with Josh. 

Edited June 15 by billsfan89

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Mikey152 said:

I do want to go on record that I think assigning "blame" to coaches and GMs and players for failing to do more than winning the division and winning at least one playoff game every year since 2020 is really kind of silly.  I hope at the very least you all realize we are making mountains out of molehills.

 

 

If Baker Mayfield is your QB then being 4-1 on wildcard weekend over a 5 year stretch is a nice feather in your cap as an organization.

 

Having Josh Allen as your QB........and never once having a bye week and being 1-3 in divisional round is a mountain of failure.

 

The current Bills are a forgettable afterthought for this period of time in NFL history.    That shouldn't be the case.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Mikey152 said:

They weren't the same drafts...

 

Look at those drafts and tell me how you would have picked them different

 

Also "top 38" is a bit disingenuous. Chase and Burrow were top 5. Our highest pick was Ed Oliver at 9, and that 2019 draft we had it in was a defensive draft...the best players in the first round are all defense (and a RB)

They weren’t the same drafts. I know this. That’s why I said the years. 
 

If we had taken Wilkins, or Lawrence or Simmons at #9 (all impact players that are better DT’s than Ed) and DK in the second, I would not be sitting here talking about how we failed to find impact players with those picks.

 

If we had taken Jaire Alexander or DJ Moore (guys that would’ve for sure gotten second contracts with the Bills) over Edmunds (who was not an impact player and did not get a second contract  here), I would not be sitting here talking about how we failed to find impact players with that pick.

 

Beane (and you) keep talking about how they didn’t suck the year before Chase was in the draft so it’s not their fault they don’t have him. That’s true. What’s also true is that we had our own bites at the apple to find impact players at high value positions, i.e. pass rusher, CB, WR with high picks and failed to do so. We took a solid LB who was a disappointment, a bust OT/OG, and like the 4th best DT in the first round who no-shows in the playoffs.

 

When we had comparable picks to the Bengals during their period of suck.

 

They drafted stars at high value positions. We drafted league averages and busts.

Edited June 14 by FireChans

[Mikey152]

56 minutes ago, FireChans said:

They weren’t the same drafts. I know this. That’s why I said the years. 
 

If we had taken Wilkins, or Lawrence or Simmons at #9 (all impact players that are better DT’s than Ed) and DK in the second, I would not be sitting here talking about how we failed to find impact players with those picks.

 

If we had taken Jaire Alexander or DJ Moore (guys that would’ve for sure gotten second contracts with the Bills) over Edmunds (who was not an impact player and did not get a second contract  here), I would not be sitting here talking about how we failed to find impact players with that pick.

 

Beane (and you) keep talking about how they didn’t suck the year before Chase was in the draft so it’s not their fault they don’t have him. That’s true. What’s also true is that we had our own bites at the apple to find impact players at high value positions, i.e. pass rusher, CB, WR with high picks and failed to do so. We took a solid LB who was a disappointment, a bust OT/OG, and like the 4th best DT in the first round who no-shows in the playoffs.

 

When we had comparable picks to the Bengals during their period of suck.

 

They drafted stars at high value positions. We drafted league averages and busts.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on comparable...1, 5, and 33 are light years away from 9, 21, 22 and 40. Im not sure you could trade our 4 picks for just #1...nevermind #5 and #33. 

 

The Bengals were gifted Joe Burrow. The Bills turned pick #21 into #7 draft day style in order to take Josh Allen. Huge difference, and the fact that you don't see it is telling.

 

 

Edited June 14 by Mikey152

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Mikey152 said:

 

We will have to agree to disagree on comparable...1, 5, and 33 are light years away from 9, 21, 22 and 40. Im not sure you could trade our 4 picks for just #1...nevermind #5 and #33. 

 

The Bengals were gifted Joe Burrow. The Bills turned pick #21 into #7 draft day style in order to take Josh Allen. Huge difference, and the fact that you don't see it is telling.

 

 

Why are you including the Burrow pick and not the Josh and Edmunds picks lol

[DieHardBillsFan]

All we needed last year is a healthy Defense or a few catches by the WRs. I don't think there needs to be a drastic review on this, not that I don't like looking into the details. Bills could have won last year because they are a better team, and they can this year if they are healthy near the end of the season.

[Julio Hopkins]

They can start by not allowing the Chiefs offense to have an average of 7.6 yards per play.  I could be wrong, but I think the defense is supposed to stop the opposing offense or at least attempt to slow them down a bit.  

[NewEra]

20 hours ago, Billl said:

The Bengals and Bills both have elite QBs. Josh is better, but Burrow is also great when healthy. Setting QBs aside, Cincy has three elite players at premium positions in Chase, Higgins, and Hendrickson. Buffalo had Diggs plus half a season of Von. 

First team all pro Milano disagrees with you assessment of elite.  2 of our 4 elite players were injured. 

[Rampant Buffalo]

On 6/14/2024 at 3:36 PM, Mikey152 said:

The Bengals were gifted Joe Burrow. The Bills turned pick #21 into #7 draft day style in order to take Josh Allen. Huge difference, and the fact that you don't see it is telling.

 

On Tuesday, the average net worth of someone living in your neighborhood was $100,000. Then on Wednesday, Elon Musk randomly moved in. Now it's Sunday, and the average net worth of someone living in your neighborhood is well over $1 billion.

 

Josh Allen is the Elon Musk of Beane's draft picks. Adding one guy like that is going to make the average look much, much better than it otherwise would have.

 

Let's say I'm the GM of an expansion team. I have two options. 1) I'm gifted a rookie version of Josh Allen. 2) I'm gifted rookie versions of all other Beane draft picks.

 

I know which of those options I'm taking. Dude, it's not even close.

 

[Mikey152]

On 6/14/2024 at 4:54 PM, FireChans said:

Why are you including the Burrow pick and not the Josh and Edmunds picks lol

 

Those were the Bills picks they "earned" based on record. They made the playoffs in 2017 and had to trade two number twos and Cordy Glenn among other things to get from 21 and 22 to 7 and 16.

 

So trading a ton of assets to go from 21 to 7 isn't the same as sucking into #1. 

 

If you don't count 2017 (Mcdermott didn't coach the team in 2016 and Beane wasn't the GM), the Bills have only had one pick outside the 20s the whole time McDermott has been the coach and Beane was the GM. Sure, they traded down to acquire picks and used those to trade up...but that isn't the same as being bad and getting top picks in every round. In that same time, the Bengals picked TWICE IN A ROW in the top 5 based solely on record, including #1 overall.

 

 

Edited June 17 by Mikey152