FireChans Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 19 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: I think there is a little bit TOO MUCH put on Josh Allen on these boards. If it is truly all about the quarterback, then you shouldn't even be mad. Josh Allen (you know, not the Bills) has lost to Mahomes and Burrow since he became JOSH ALLEN. You could make an argument that both of those guys are as good or better. If it is all about the quarterback, then maybe the problem is the Chiefs and Bengals have a better one. Maybe it's not that McDermott isn't better than Reid...it's that Josh isn't better than Pat and we need to start over at QB if we are ever gonna win. Okay, maybe Burrow and Mahomes are just better. What is your solution to bridging the gap with Josh Allen under contract for the Bills? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 10 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: To be fair, everyone says that the only reason the Bills win is Josh Allen. That QB is the reason you win. If that is true, then logically, if you lose it is because the other team had a better QB. Has he really had better receivers, though? I mean, last year his number one receiver was a second round rookie. Diggs >>> their whole receiving core, on paper. And sure, the Bengals have had a better receiving core...but their Oline is trash. Is this honestly your take lol The winning QB is superior 😂😂 And yes Kelce>Diggs by an order of magnitude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey152 Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 (edited) 6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Is this honestly your take lol The winning QB is superior 😂😂 And yes Kelce>Diggs by an order of magnitude Ah, moving the goalposts...nice And no, it isn't my take...that's YOUR take. You are the one that keeps telling me that anybody can win with Josh Allen. Why is that only the case for Josh Allen? Maybe Reid and Taylor are trash, too and they only win because of Mahomes and Burrow. Certainly looks like that was the case for Belichick. So maybe it IS all about the QB. And our QB can't beat Burrow and Mahomes. Edited June 11 by Mikey152 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 17 minutes ago, Gregg said: He has had better receivers than Allen. Better performance by his defense as well. Mahomes, Allen and Burrow are all great QB's. Football is the ultimate team sport, and one could argue the Chiefs no doubt and possibly the Bengals have had better teams and coaching than the Bills. Yeah it's not even a debate. Allen with the Bengals playoff defense would have been in two Super Bowls by now. That's without giving him their receivers. People on here just say whatever. When your conclusion is "McDermott is a Super Bowl caliber coach," you kind of have to make weird justifications elsewhere to support that. At this point I don't expect anybody to change their mind. Can everyone at least agree that if we're in the exact same boat next offseason, McDermott should 100% be fired? Can we not make pre-excuses or justifications and just concede that if we once again fail to even come close to a Super Bowl win that it's time for a change? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 18 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: To be fair, everyone says that the only reason the Bills win is Josh Allen. That QB is the reason you win. If that is true, then logically, if you lose it is because the other team had a better QB. Has he really had better receivers, though? I mean, last year his number one receiver was a second round rookie. Diggs >>> their whole receiving core, on paper. And sure, the Bengals have had a better receiving core...but their Oline is trash. As far as KC goes. Kelce gives Mahomes the ultimate weapon and opens things up for everyone else. The Bengals OL has been trash but Chase, Higgins, and Boyd are a better top 3 at WR than what the Bills have had. Also, the Chiefs and Bengals defenses have played better in the playoffs than the Bills D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey152 Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 13 minutes ago, FireChans said: Okay, maybe Burrow and Mahomes are just better. What is your solution to bridging the gap with Josh Allen under contract for the Bills? Nothing is 100%. The better QB doesn't win 100% of the time, just most of the time. So, just keep doing what we are doing and hope we get lucky. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: Nothing is 100%. The better QB doesn't win 100% of the time, just most of the time. So, just keep doing what we are doing and hope we get lucky. Okay fair enough. Do you think there’s an argument for changing coaches or schemes to bridge that gap in the short-term between the respective QB’s? 5 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Yeah it's not even a debate. Allen with the Bengals playoff defense would have been in two Super Bowls by now. That's without giving him their receivers. People on here just say whatever. When your conclusion is "McDermott is a Super Bowl caliber coach," you kind of have to make weird justifications elsewhere to support that. At this point I don't expect anybody to change their mind. Can everyone at least agree that if we're in the exact same boat next offseason, McDermott should 100% be fired? Can we not make pre-excuses or justifications and just concede that if we once again fail to even come close to a Super Bowl win that it's time for a change? I would have an easier time agreeing with McD should be fired next off-season if Beano wasn’t clearly doing a mini down-year rebuild. The roster is not Super Bowl caliber as it stands imo. Our #1 WR is Curtis ***** Samuel lol Edited June 11 by FireChans 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 3 minutes ago, FireChans said: I would have an easier time agreeing with McD should be fired next off-season if Beano wasn’t clearly doing a mini down-year rebuild. The roster is not Super Bowl caliber as it stands imo. Our #1 WR is Curtis ***** Samuel lol This is my fear. Next offseason Pegula and the fans will justify it as "it was a planned rebuild year" and Josh Allen will be 31 years old before we decide to try again with different people in charge. Personally I think five years of elite QB play is more than enough time to make a judgment about a head coach, excuses be damned. But yes I suspect that's where the conversation will be next year, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 12 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: Ah, moving the goalposts...nice And no, it isn't my take...that's YOUR take. You are the one that keeps telling me that anybody can win with Josh Allen. Why is that only the case for Josh Allen? Maybe Reid and Taylor are trash, too and they only win because of Mahomes and Burrow. Certainly looks like that was the case for Belichick. So maybe it IS all about the QB. And our QB can't beat Burrow and Mahomes. I'm sorry you are having such a hard time w this I mean do you even understand what an advantage it is going against the Bills defense in the playoffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey152 Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 Just now, FireChans said: Okay fair enough. Do you think there’s an argument for changing coaches or schemes to bridge that gap in the short-term between the respective QB’s? Could it work? Maybe. Best case is the new coach provides enough of a spark to get the team over the hump and beat KC/Cinn and maybe win a SB. Maybe even establishes a new dynasty. But that's probably unlikely. More likely, we change coaches and in three years the team sucks. Maybe we win a SB, maybe we don't. Lots of coaches can win a playoff game with Josh Allen, but not a lot win double digit games every year. 5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I'm sorry you are having such a hard time w this I mean do you even understand what an advantage it is going against the Bills defense in the playoffs Is that really a true statement? Burrow and Mahomes crushed it, but it did fine against the Colts and Miami and crushed the Patriots and Ravens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 6 minutes ago, HappyDays said: This is my fear. Next offseason Pegula and the fans will justify it as "it was a planned rebuild year" and Josh Allen will be 31 years old before we decide to try again with different people in charge. Personally I think five years of elite QB play is more than enough time to make a judgment about a head coach, excuses be damned. But yes I suspect that's where the conversation will be next year, unfortunately. Do you think that’s retroactive though? you have nothing to fear because imo it’s already been spun that way and justified with Pegula’s blessing. It’s already come to pass. We will see no changes after 2024 unless the Bills win like 4 games (which won’t happen unless Josh misses the season). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 8 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: Could it work? Maybe. Best case is the new coach provides enough of a spark to get the team over the hump and beat KC/Cinn and maybe win a SB. Maybe even establishes a new dynasty. But that's probably unlikely. More likely, we change coaches and in three years the team sucks. Maybe we win a SB, maybe we don't. Lots of coaches can win a playoff game with Josh Allen, but not a lot win double digit games every year. Is that really a true statement? Burrow and Mahomes crushed it, but it did fine against the Colts and Miami and crushed the Patriots and Ravens. Fine against the Colts lol They let Philip Rivers offense go off for 500 in his last game before retirement😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 3 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: Could it work? Maybe. Best case is the new coach provides enough of a spark to get the team over the hump and beat KC/Cinn and maybe win a SB. Maybe even establishes a new dynasty. But that's probably unlikely. More likely, we change coaches and in three years the team sucks. Maybe we win a SB, maybe we don't. Lots of coaches can win a playoff game with Josh Allen, but not a lot win double digit games every year. Is that really a true statement? Burrow and Mahomes crushed it, but it did fine against the Colts and Miami and crushed the Patriots and Ravens. I think it could work. We have seen it work. Kubiak and Wade succeeded in Denver where John Fox failed and Fox got them to a Super Bowl! And who knows what that team does going forward if Peyton’s career didn’t end. There are other examples too. Idk man, we are talking about beating our head against the wall for 5 straight seasons. I agree the Chiefs are a modern day dynasty and they have our number and the better QB. But like what is the timeline here? When do we give someone else a shot to do better? When Josh is 35? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey152 Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 (edited) 15 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Fine against the Colts lol They let Philip Rivers offense go off for 500 in his last game before retirement😂😂 Rivers had 309 yards passing on 46 attempts (6.7 ypa). They also held Jonathan Taylor below 4 ypc. The colts had 10 points in the 4th quarter. They struggled to get stops late because of the pass rush. The next year they drafted two DE in the first two rounds. Edited June 11 by Mikey152 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 4 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: Rivers had 309 yards passing on 46 attempts (6.7 ypa). They also held Jonathan Taylor below 4 ypc. The colts had 10 points in the 4th quarter. 😂😂Everyone get graded on a curve but when it comes to QB it's 'the guy who won is better' Carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey152 Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 16 minutes ago, FireChans said: I think it could work. We have seen it work. Kubiak and Wade succeeded in Denver where John Fox failed and Fox got them to a Super Bowl! And who knows what that team does going forward if Peyton’s career didn’t end. There are other examples too. Idk man, we are talking about beating our head against the wall for 5 straight seasons. I agree the Chiefs are a modern day dynasty and they have our number and the better QB. But like what is the timeline here? When do we give someone else a shot to do better? When Josh is 35? There probably isn't a right answer. Either option is a risk. I get why people want to replace McD. In their minds, it can't really get worse with JA as our QB. Im not sure I agree, but I get that mindset. If we hadn't been so close (IMO, the Bills are the second best team this decade), I'd be more apt to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 2 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: There probably isn't a right answer. Either option is a risk. I get why people want to replace McD. In their minds, it can't really get worse with JA as our QB. Im not sure I agree, but I get that mindset. If we hadn't been so close (IMO, the Bills are the second best team this decade), I'd be more apt to move on. Here’s my criteria: Bills lose in the playoffs to any team not named the Chiefs, unless it’s in the Super Bowl, I’m done with Beane/McD. Full stop. Theres an argument that we are just second best in the conference and can’t get by the dynasty of our time. I happen to agree with that argument. But if we lose to the Texans or the Bengals again or the Ravens, then we are at best the third or 4th best team in the conference and that means it’s time to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey152 Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: 😂😂Everyone get graded on a curve but when it comes to QB it's 'the guy who won is better' Carry on I see, that's how this is going to go? Your logic is only true so long as it works for you? Flat out, is Josh Allen better than Patrick Mahomes? If the answer is yes, then we are underperforming. If the answer is no, then perhaps changing the coach is just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. Bottom line is this. you said that any coach can win with JA because he is a great QB. Clearly, how good your QB is has a big influence on winning games in your mind. So, if that is true...wouldn't it stand to reason that if a QB is BETTER than Josh Allen, it would be even easier to win? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 Just now, Mikey152 said: I see, that's how this is going to go? Your logic is only true so long as it works for you? Flat out, is Josh Allen better than Patrick Mahomes? If the answer is yes, then we are underperforming. If the answer is no, then perhaps changing the coach is just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. Bottom line is this. you said that any coach can win with JA because he is a great QB. Clearly, how good your QB is has a big influence on winning games in your mind. So, if that is true...wouldn't it stand to reason that if a QB is BETTER than Josh Allen, it would be even easier to win? Fwiw, I think Brady is better than Peyton, and Peyton is 3-2 vs him in the postseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey152 Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Here’s my criteria: Bills lose in the playoffs to any team not named the Chiefs, unless it’s in the Super Bowl, I’m done with Beane/McD. Full stop. Theres an argument that we are just second best in the conference and can’t get by the dynasty of our time. I happen to agree with that argument. But if we lose to the Texans or the Bengals again or the Ravens, then we are at best the third or 4th best team in the conference and that means it’s time to go. I can get on board with that logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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